BoxRec

What I don't get is how they imagine anyone who's not Chinese, yet is still interested in who will be Zhan Zhi Lei's next opponent, is going to be sufficiently ignorant of heavyweight boxing as to be fooled by their description of Ustinov as "world class".

Don't they realize it makes them either look like conmen or complete idiots

Having said that I'd watch it. As has been said it's a step up for Zhang and it might provide some kind of indication whether he's likely to progress much further.

Welcome back Oogie. Hope those health concerns are all in the past

candyslim wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 03:40 What I don't get is how they imagine anyone who's not Chinese, yet is still interested in who will be Zhan Zhi Lei's next opponent, is going to be sufficiently ignorant of heavyweight boxing as to be fooled by their description of Ustinov as "world class".

Don't they realize it makes them either look like conmen or complete idiots

Having said that I'd watch it. As has been said it's a step up for Zhang and it might provide some kind of indication whether he's likely to progress much further.

Welcome back Oogie. Hope those health concerns are all in the past

This basically sums up everything in one post. Irritated for believing the hype (even though we should've expected it), but will still watch to see where this leaves these two fringe heavyweights.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018, 22:37

oogiebe wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018, 17:20

tiny_acres wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018, 13:53

OOGIEBE where have you been? I haven't seen you post in a while

Had some health concerns but now I'm back! Nice to see someone missed me!!!

Welcome back, Oogee Boogee!

LMAO! thanks!!!

candyslim wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 03:40 What I don't get is how they imagine anyone who's not Chinese, yet is still interested in who will be Zhan Zhi Lei's next opponent, is going to be sufficiently ignorant of heavyweight boxing as to be fooled by their description of Ustinov as "world class".

Don't they realize it makes them either look like conmen or complete idiots

Having said that I'd watch it. As has been said it's a step up for Zhang and it might provide some kind of indication whether he's likely to progress much further.

Welcome back Oogie. Hope those health concerns are all in the past

Thanks Candy! Me too!

candyslim wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 03:40 What I don't get is how they imagine anyone who's not Chinese, yet is still interested in who will be Zhan Zhi Lei's next opponent, is going to be sufficiently ignorant of heavyweight boxing as to be fooled by their description of Ustinov as "world class".

Don't they realize it makes them either look like conmen or complete idiots

Having said that I'd watch it. As has been said it's a step up for Zhang and it might provide some kind of indication whether he's likely to progress much further.

Welcome back Oogie. Hope those health concerns are all in the past

I disagree, old chap. Ustinov isn't top ten but he is world class. He has fought top guys, and BoxRec ranks him the 59th best heavyweight boxer on the entire planet, and he is a huge step up for Number Two Son Zhang (re old Charley Chan movies).

joshj909 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 01:45

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018, 22:37 Confusing. The other Zhang, Junlong Dragon King Zhang, is ranked #1 in China and his record is 19-0 all by ko in 1st 2nd or 3rd round - but he hasn't fought in ten months! Where is he? This Zhang, Zhilei Big Bang Zhang, has been fighting regularly. I hate to tell you but the #5 ranked light heavy in China is also named Zhang. It's actually pronounced more like the "jo" in John.

So Zhang and Big Bang don't even rhyme?

Nope. Like many of these stupid boxer nicknames they were invented by some PR guy.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 13:00

joshj909 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 01:45

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018, 22:37 Confusing. The other Zhang, Junlong Dragon King Zhang, is ranked #1 in China and his record is 19-0 all by ko in 1st 2nd or 3rd round - but he hasn't fought in ten months! Where is he? This Zhang, Zhilei Big Bang Zhang, has been fighting regularly. I hate to tell you but the #5 ranked light heavy in China is also named Zhang. It's actually pronounced more like the "jo" in John.

So Zhang and Big Bang don't even rhyme?

Nope. Like many of these stupid boxer nicknames they were invented by some PR guy.

I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't "Big Dong" Zh(o)ng then

Re Ustinov you might be able to make a case that Ustinov was once world class if you are extremely generous with the criteria for qualifying as world class, but he sure as hell aint world class now however lenient you are with that definition.

candyslim wrote: ↑17 Oct 2018, 08:07

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 13:00

joshj909 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 01:45

So Zhang and Big Bang don't even rhyme?

Nope. Like many of these stupid boxer nicknames they were invented by some PR guy.

I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't "Big Dong" Zh(o)ng then

Re Ustinov you might be able to make a case that Ustinov was once world class if you are extremely generous with the criteria for qualifying as world class, but he sure as hell aint world class now however lenient you are with that definition.

You reminded me of one fighter - what happened to Taishan "Big" Dong - the Chinese Valuev?

Back to topic, out of two Zhangs, Zhilei is better and more proven by his amateur accomplishments, he will beat Ustinov but guys like Wach, Duhaupas, Jennings or Kabayel would be too much for him. Good test would be him vs Helenius.

dagilechia wrote: ↑17 Oct 2018, 08:13

candyslim wrote: ↑17 Oct 2018, 08:07

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 13:00


Nope. Like many of these stupid boxer nicknames they were invented by some PR guy.

I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't "Big Dong" Zh(o)ng then

Re Ustinov you might be able to make a case that Ustinov was once world class if you are extremely generous with the criteria for qualifying as world class, but he sure as hell aint world class now however lenient you are with that definition.

You reminded me of one fighter - what happened to Taishan "Big" Dong - the Chinese Valuev?

Back to topic, out of two Zhangs, Zhilei is better and more proven by his amateur accomplishments, he will beat Ustinov but guys like Wach, Duhaupas, Jennings or Kabayel would be too much for him. Good test would be him vs Helenius.

Taishan is now into professional wrestling. Hes is signed with WWE. I guess they were not able to teach him to box properly

I don't have any faith in any non-Turkic (Uighur or Kazakh) fighters from China. Too much hype. Not as much as that Vijender Singh guy who's embarrassing, but I certainly don't see any Han Chinese doing well above 130 lbs when they're doing so poor even below it.

I like the Zhang journey...its been fun so far.

on paper Ustinov is a step up...and huge in stature....but he was never world class.

I'm interested in this fight. If a Chinese heavy can make the big time he will become enormously popular in his country, opening up the biggest market for boxing, and making the sport - if you can call it that - even much more international in scope -and up until the 90's it was basically a private US-UK club.

Ustinov is a scrub. 41 years old and doesn't have a single decent win in his whole career. He may be Zhang's best opponent ever but that's meaningless.

true although im still not convinced zhang is even much better then that

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 12:57 I disagree, old chap. Ustinov isn't top ten but he is world class.

I generally consider about 5 fighters per division to be world class, which coincides with the number world championship belts that are taken somewhat seriously. In the heavyweight division, I consider Joshua, Wilder, and Fury to be elite (above world class); and Povetkin, Pulev, Ortiz, Whyte, and Miller to be at world class or very near it.

Ustinov is at least 50 ranks below the world class. He is a mid-tier gatekeeper. The band of gatekeepers start about where the contenders end, which is around #20, and they end about where the journeymen start, which is around #125. Gatekeepers are gatekeepers because they will consistently lose to fighters who are deserving contenders, and they will close the door on fraudulent prospects (like Adrian Granat once was). Gatekeepers will have a near perfect record against journeymen, just the way that Ustinov has a perfect record against Raphael Zumbano, Konstantin Airich, Mo Harris, Travis Walker, Chauncy Welliver, Jason Gavern, Kertson Manswell, Denis Bakhtov, Ed Mahone, Monte Barrett, Michael Sprott, Byron Polley, Julius Long, etc. Gatekeepers should have a nearly 0% record against contenders (and he does, 0-1 against Pulev), and somewhere in the ballpark of a 50/50 record against other gatekeepers (lost to Charr, Tua was arguably a gatekeeper win).

Even in his prime Ustinov was not "world class" or anything remotely close to it.

jujigatame wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 10:14 Ustinov is a scrub. 41 years old and doesn't have a single decent win in his whole career. He may be Zhang's best opponent ever but that's meaningless.

Didn’t Charr knock him down?

Is Ustinov "world class"? It's a matter of semantics. Right now Boxrec ranks him #57 in the world. At his peak he was ranked much higher. Now he's the 57th best heavyweight boxer in the world, out of aboout 8 billion bipeds. Good enuff 4 me.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 15:57 Is Ustinov "world class"? It's a matter of semantics. Right now Boxrec ranks him #57 in the world. At his peak he was ranked much higher. Now he's the 57th best heavyweight boxer in the world, out of aboout 8 billion bipeds. Good enuff 4 me.

How silly.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 15:57 Is Ustinov "world class"? It's a matter of semantics. Right now Boxrec ranks him #57 in the world. At his peak he was ranked much higher. Now he's the 57th best heavyweight boxer in the world, out of aboout 8 billion bipeds. Good enuff 4 me.

I agree with you mate......thoooouuuusands wouldn't....

If Ustinov is "world-class" then there are over 1,000 world-class boxers out there and the term has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 16:48

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 15:57 Is Ustinov "world class"? It's a matter of semantics. Right now Boxrec ranks him #57 in the world. At his peak he was ranked much higher. Now he's the 57th best heavyweight boxer in the world, out of aboout 8 billion bipeds. Good enuff 4 me.

How silly.

I agree, and this is a silly thread. We are arguing over an advertising word ha ha ha!

I fought Ustinov 1 month after Lucas Browne broke my orbital bone & went 8rds.
I'm just a gatekeeper. If he was world class he'd have stopped me.
I didn't even think he was as good as Sonny Bill Williams who himself is a bit of a novelty.

Best of luck to both guys, but the China boxer should win.

Chauncy wrote: ↑05 Nov 2018, 00:14 I fought Ustinov 1 month after Lucas Browne broke my orbital bone & went 8rds.
I'm just a gatekeeper. If he was world class he'd have stopped me.
I didn't even think he was as good as Sonny Bill Williams who himself is a bit of a novelty.

Best of luck to both guys, but the China boxer should win.

Rare to get an opinion who's been in the ring with one of the boxers being discussed, cheers

Ustinov and Helenius now sparred with Szpilka before his fight vs Wach and it is said that Ustinov did much better than Helenius. Sparring is just a sparring though.