Page 3 of 4
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 24 Oct 2018, 19:45
by chrisjs1985
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 18:43
I thought Tyson ditched a belt to avoid fighting Lewis in 1996
He did ditch his belt but I think it had more to do with the history with Holyfield and the money that fight generated than avoiding Lewis.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 00:45
by Onetimeonly
Ikopable wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 00:28
Monzon's got to be in there for hardest resume, Benvenuti, Griffith x2, & Napoles.
Maybe VItali as easiest, not sure if he counts as an ATG, though...
I wouldn't call vitali an atg, but he did face Lewis. That's more than Perez. Listing Floyd is hilarious.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 01:57
by paddy chavez
Ray Leonard fought some greats Duran,Hearns,Hagler also benitez and Norris
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 11:01
by Ambling Alp II
He has a rock solid case for being one of the Top 10 of all time. If he had 30 wins over tomato cans many more people would look at his record and realize how great he rally was.
There are only a few who fought better competition than him.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 13:14
by Cojimar 1946
It depends how you view his era, fighters can only fight those around in their own time.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 14:49
by Ambling Alp II
He fought in a great era and he fought the best around.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 17:49
by Onetimeonly
I think I'd have Leonard between 9-12, no way he isn't in the top 20 and wherever he is he's definitely above Floyd and Manny.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 19:43
by Cojimar 1946
So how do we rate guys with the misfortune to dominate a poor era?
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 20:04
by Onetimeonly
Like whom?
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 22:28
by Cojimar 1946
Wladimir Klitschko
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 22:38
by tiny_acres
X2
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 22:48
by Onetimeonly
Wlad has some solid wins like povetkin, Byrd, haye and a good loss against aj. He also has 3 bad losses against lesser fighters of the weak era. I wouldn't have an issue with him being rated at the back end of the hw top 20. I'm sure I'd have him in the top 25-30. He was clearly the best of his era.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 22:52
by tiny_acres
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑25 Oct 2018, 22:48
Wlad has some solid wins like povetkin, Byrd, haye and a good loss against aj. He also has 3 bad losses against lesser fighters of the weak era. I wouldn't have an issue with him being rated at the back end of the hw top 20. I'm sure I'd have him in the top 25-30. He was clearly the best of his era.
Still on an all time great resume list. His is sub par
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 05:24
by Controversial
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 19:45
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 18:43
I thought Tyson ditched a belt to avoid fighting Lewis in 1996
He did ditch his belt but I think it had more to do with the history with Holyfield and the money that fight generated than avoiding Lewis.
More like Tyson didn't want to fight Lewis, hence paying him off with $4 million to step aside and allow him to fight Seldon instead. Tyson then relinquished the belt.
"The handlers of Mike Tyson couldn't win in court, so they paid Lennox Lewis, who agreed Thursday to step aside and let Tyson fight World Boxing Assn. champion Bruce Seldon on July 13 in Las Vegas. The New Jersey Supreme Court had blocked Tyson's bid to fight Seldon after Lewis had gone to court, claiming that he should be fighting for Tyson's World Boxing Council title, rather than Seldon. Attempts by Tyson and promoter Don King to overturn that decision failed, and that crown will not be at stake when Tyson fights Seldon. Though terms of the agreement were not announced, Lewis reportedly will be paid an amount in seven figures and is guaranteed a fight with Tyson by Sept. 1 for the WBC title, provided Lewis wins a tune-up bout."
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 11:41
by Tuan_Jim
Controversial wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 05:24
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 19:45
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 18:43
I thought Tyson ditched a belt to avoid fighting Lewis in 1996
He did ditch his belt but I think it had more to do with the history with Holyfield and the money that fight generated than avoiding Lewis.
More like Tyson didn't want to fight Lewis, hence paying him off with $4 million to step aside and allow him to fight Seldon instead. Tyson then relinquished the belt.
"The handlers of Mike Tyson couldn't win in court, so they paid Lennox Lewis, who agreed Thursday to step aside and let Tyson fight World Boxing Assn. champion Bruce Seldon on July 13 in Las Vegas. The New Jersey Supreme Court had blocked Tyson's bid to fight Seldon after Lewis had gone to court, claiming that he should be fighting for Tyson's World Boxing Council title, rather than Seldon. Attempts by Tyson and promoter Don King to overturn that decision failed, and that crown will not be at stake when Tyson fights Seldon. Though terms of the agreement were not announced, Lewis reportedly will be paid an amount in seven figures and is guaranteed a fight with Tyson by Sept. 1 for the WBC title, provided Lewis wins a tune-up bout."
More like Don King didn't want Tyson to fight Lewis. Tyson didn't give a $hit. Lewis got flattened by Oliver McCall, a man with whom Mike had sparred thousands of rounds. You surely don't think he was frightened of a man who got destroyed by his sparring partner? Lewis at the time had scraped past Mercer. As Thomas Hauser said, "Everything Mercer can do, Tyson can do better." Tyson was seen as awesome at the time, Lewis was not. Don King wanted to keep it all in the family, with Tyson mega paydays vs his fighters--Seldon, Holyfield, and Moorer. Then after that Lewis would have been accommodated.
The idea that Tyson ducked Lewis in 96 is total revisionist history. Even the fiercely pro Lewis Boxing Monthly didn't paint it as such. They totally understood the business of that decision to eschew the Lewis fight.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 13:51
by Cojimar 1946
Tyson had been destroyed by Douglas at this point and had looked poor vs Ruddock. If were using the McCall fight to discredit Lewis than the same is true for Tyson's loss to Douglas. I somehow doubt fans had forgotten his kayo loss to Douglas.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 14:01
by Controversial
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 11:41
Controversial wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 05:24
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 19:45
He did ditch his belt but I think it had more to do with the history with Holyfield and the money that fight generated than avoiding Lewis.
More like Tyson didn't want to fight Lewis, hence paying him off with $4 million to step aside and allow him to fight Seldon instead. Tyson then relinquished the belt.
"The handlers of Mike Tyson couldn't win in court, so they paid Lennox Lewis, who agreed Thursday to step aside and let Tyson fight World Boxing Assn. champion Bruce Seldon on July 13 in Las Vegas. The New Jersey Supreme Court had blocked Tyson's bid to fight Seldon after Lewis had gone to court, claiming that he should be fighting for Tyson's World Boxing Council title, rather than Seldon. Attempts by Tyson and promoter Don King to overturn that decision failed, and that crown will not be at stake when Tyson fights Seldon. Though terms of the agreement were not announced, Lewis reportedly will be paid an amount in seven figures and is guaranteed a fight with Tyson by Sept. 1 for the WBC title, provided Lewis wins a tune-up bout."
More like Don King didn't want Tyson to fight Lewis. Tyson didn't give a $hit. Lewis got flattened by Oliver McCall, a man with whom Mike had sparred thousands of rounds. You surely don't think he was frightened of a man who got destroyed by his sparring partner? Lewis at the time had scraped past Mercer. As Thomas Hauser said, "Everything Mercer can do, Tyson can do better." Tyson was seen as awesome at the time, Lewis was not. Don King wanted to keep it all in the family, with Tyson mega paydays vs his fighters--Seldon, Holyfield, and Moorer. Then after that Lewis would have been accommodated.
The idea that Tyson ducked Lewis in 96 is total revisionist history. Even the fiercely pro Lewis Boxing Monthly didn't paint it as such. They totally understood the business of that decision to eschew the Lewis fight.
Yes I agree, badly worded on my part, I don't think Tyson was scared of anyone but the main point still sticks, fighters (or their teams) pick and choose to a certain degree. FMM isn't the only one who can be accused of it.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 15:49
by Onetimeonly
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 13:51
Tyson had been destroyed by Douglas at this point and had looked poor vs Ruddock. If were using the McCall fight to discredit Lewis than the same is true for Tyson's loss to Douglas. I somehow doubt fans had forgotten his kayo loss to Douglas.
Tyson fans still pretend the Douglas fight never happened. You can't even imagine how irrelevant it was to the boxing world then. Oh yeah, you know all about that period. Lmao, didn't realize who I was responding to.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 16:10
by Cojimar 1946
It seems odd to suggest Tyson didn't see Lewis as a threat based on the McCall fight. Holyfield for instance hadn't looked good recently with recent losses to Michael Moorer and Riddick Bowe. If anything, I would say Holyfield looked like an easier proposition for Tyson based on his recent performances.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 16:40
by oogiebe
While I have the deepest respect for him, Rocky Marciano had the easiest opponents among ATG, IMHO. Most difficult? Hard for me to narrow down to one. Many ATG's fought all comers. Ali; Monzon; Hagler; Jaffre; all come to mind.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 17:00
by Onetimeonly
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 16:10
It seems odd to suggest Tyson didn't see Lewis as a threat based on the McCall fight. Holyfield for instance hadn't looked good recently with recent losses to Michael Moorer and Riddick Bowe. If anything, I would say Holyfield looked like an easier proposition for Tyson based on his recent performances.
What really seems odd is you got something right! They thought holy field was a mark and it was much more money.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 17:22
by Cojimar 1946
Yeah, it certainly made financial sense though if they knew Holyfield wasn't shot beforehand they might have chosen a different opponent.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 18:00
by Onetimeonly
He would have kicked Mike's ass anytime. Evander knew it, king knew it, Mike knew it and I damn sure knew it. No way it should have been foty, too one sided. Still one of my favorite events ever.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 27 Oct 2018, 02:57
by DrDuke
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 18:00
He would have kicked Mike's ass anytime. Evander knew it, king knew it, Mike knew it and I damn sure knew it. No way it should have been foty, too one sided. Still one of my favorite events ever.
Right, Evander would have handled Mike any time, after Douglas in the case of Tyson's victory, instead of Cooper in the case of Tyson avoiding troubles with the law, even in the hypothetical matchup with both in their primes.
Re: What ATG had the easiest opponents and what ATG had the hardest?
Posted: 31 Oct 2018, 15:02
by Quantrax
Mayweather beat Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Diego Corales X 2, Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, Oscar DLH, JMM, Shane Mosley, Miguel Cotto, Canelo and Manny Pacquiao.
Plus a list of respectable B list fighters like Gatti, Maidana, Guerrero etc.
Across 5 weight classes.
Yes he used his star status to weaken his opponents at he negotiating table.
But the notion that this is the weakest ATG resume in boxing history is laughable. Rather, the poster that made the claim is trying to sound edgy and interesting. Any boxing fan could name 20 fighters with weaker résumés, without breaking a sweat.