Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 13:44
Does the fukcing written rule exist ?
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Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 13:47
pretty sure the wbo automatic shot issue came up for another case and i beleve there was something in writing about it
though all the abc rules start of with a statement basically saying they can do whatever they want
though all the abc rules start of with a statement basically saying they can do whatever they want
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 13:48
I agree that Parker would do it, but it would be a risk for both. Parker is hardly the static target required for testing out the waters at HW.Rob3_142 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2018, 18:14 I thinking banding the likes of Parker, Whyte or Miller is somewhat fanciful. I mean from a fantasy perspective, hell yes, but from a reality perspective, I'd struggle to look much further than Chisora. Usyk is what, 31 years old now? Hanging round in the already conquered cruiserweight division is probably a waste of time, when he'd need 1-2 years in the heavyweight division to thoroughly establish himself.
I expect him to be fed some Matchroom fodder (or some close associates) such as Dave Allen, Dave Price, Charles Martin, Carlos Takam. at least for his first, maybe second fights. Reality is, most guys either highly ranked in the ABC rankings or someone sitting pretty in the top 15 would consider Usyk a high risk fight for limited return. At a stretch, I would perhaps consider Parker bold enough to take the risk, because he seems to have that mentality (as he did vs. Whyte) but I think it would be an ill advised risk.
It probably will be a Matchroom fighter and then one of the four you mentioned. A convincing win against any of them would give Usyk's HW standing considerable boost just in time for the Joshua/Wilder/Fury situation to have been cleared up.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 13:50
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 14:17
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 14:51
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 14:17I wouldn't be bothered to look for it, but I believe it's standard.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 18:59
This is not UFC, and how business is operated is completely different.jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 11:30 I really don't see why he should fight some mediocre C-list HW before fighting Joshua. The HW division has zero depth right now. Just let him fight the champ, like the UFC did with Cormier.
You are setting yourself up to come across as a bit of an idiot, by assuming there's no difference between fighting a 199 lb Cruiser, to fighting a 250 lb heavy. Usyk can do as he pleases, but he'll get splattered across the ring if he's not a little bit careful.
Oh and by the way, what makes you think that Usyk is king of the world and can just pick and who he chooses to fight? Perhaps he might actually have to earn a shot at Joshua?
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 19:01
100%. I just can't see him moving up for one of the top 5. He'd need at least one (better to have two) carefully planned bouts at HW just to see if he can make the transition, which I don't believe he can.Rob3_142 wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 18:59This is not UFC, and how business is operated is completely different.jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 11:30 I really don't see why he should fight some mediocre C-list HW before fighting Joshua. The HW division has zero depth right now. Just let him fight the champ, like the UFC did with Cormier.
You are setting yourself up to come across as a bit of an idiot, by assuming there's no difference between fighting a 199 lb Cruiser, to fighting a 250 lb heavy. Usyk can do as he pleases, but he'll get splattered across the ring if he's not a little bit careful.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 20:10
First of all, he never said "there's no difference between fighting a 199 lb Cruiser, to fighting a 250 lb heavy". Secondly, most CW cut weight just like every other division; he's not fighting 199 lb guys on fight night. Thirdly, you're assuming that because he hasn't taken a HW punch that he can't take a HW punch. That's a very big assumption to make. He took Joe Joyce's punches just fine four years ago. By this logic Deontay Wilder shouldn't be successful...he weighed only a pound heavier than Bellew in his last defense. Size and weight are very important in boxing, but a man who 6'3 215 is hardly too small to take a punch. If that's really what it comes down to then just give Big Baby Miller the title; he can join the pantheon of 300+ lbs HW champions we've had.Rob3_142 wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 18:59This is not UFC, and how business is operated is completely different.jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 11:30 I really don't see why he should fight some mediocre C-list HW before fighting Joshua. The HW division has zero depth right now. Just let him fight the champ, like the UFC did with Cormier.
You are setting yourself up to come across as a bit of an idiot, by assuming there's no difference between fighting a 199 lb Cruiser, to fighting a 250 lb heavy. Usyk can do as he pleases, but he'll get splattered across the ring if he's not a little bit careful.
Oh and by the way, what makes you think that Usyk is king of the world and can just pick and who he chooses to fight? Perhaps he might actually have to earn a shot at Joshua?
Finally, it's hardly uncommon for high profile champions to skip the line when moving up. If you think Trevor Bryan is bringing more viewing numbers to the table than Usyk is then I've got some bad news.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 00:30
It's the fight promotion business. The 2 businesses are only different in that in boxing, promoters must often work together to make big fights, whereas the UFC pretty much has a hegemony over MMA and can make any fight they want.Rob3_142 wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 18:59This is not UFC, and how business is operated is completely different.jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Nov 2018, 11:30 I really don't see why he should fight some mediocre C-list HW before fighting Joshua. The HW division has zero depth right now. Just let him fight the champ, like the UFC did with Cormier.
You are setting yourself up to come across as a bit of an idiot, by assuming there's no difference between fighting a 199 lb Cruiser, to fighting a 250 lb heavy. Usyk can do as he pleases, but he'll get splattered across the ring if he's not a little bit careful.
Oh and by the way, what makes you think that Usyk is king of the world and can just pick and who he chooses to fight? Perhaps he might actually have to earn a shot at Joshua?
I never said there's no difference between fighting at cruiser or heavy. I'm saying that I want to see Joshua/Usyk because I believe Usyk is the best available challenger for Joshua, including Wilder.
I also never said Usyk is the "king of the world" or that he can just "choose to fight". I said that Joshua/Usyk is (in my opinion) the best fight that can be made at HW, and the fight I most want to see. And it also seems like an easier fight to make than Joshua/Wilder which seems like it will be an unending negotiating nightmare.
For someone calling others "a bit of an idiot" your reading comprehension is terrible.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 04:58
The WBO doesn’t have anything specific in their rules that guarantees or even suggests that champions moving classes are automatically installed as the mandatory challenger in their new division.
I cannot find an instance for when the mandatory challenger lost his status simply because a champion from another weight class started competing in the same weight division.
That being said, there are a few examples, which appear to be exceptions rather than the norm, of fighters jumping the queue ahead of the highest rated contender to fill the vacant mandatory slot, simply because they were champions at another weight. However, the mandatory positions were vacant when this happened.
I believe that the championship committee for all of boxing’s main governing bodies can use its discretion to override their own rules, but this doesn’t commit them to always doing it.
So the rule doesn't exist and the WBO won't always install champions from other weight divisions as their mandatory challenger whenever they venture into a new weight class.
If people believe I’m wrong, then it should be easy to provide three examples of mandatory challengers being stripped of their status by the WBO, with the mandatory status being awarded to champions from other weight classes that have decided to start competing in the same division.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 05:25
Boxing commissions only follow their rules when it suits them.Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 04:58The WBO doesn’t have anything specific in their rules that guarantees or even suggests that champions moving classes are automatically installed as the mandatory challenger in their new division.
I cannot find an instance for when the mandatory challenger lost his status simply because a champion from another weight class started competing in the same weight division.
That being said, there are a few examples, which appear to be exceptions rather than the norm, of fighters jumping the queue ahead of the highest rated contender to fill the vacant mandatory slot, simply because they were champions at another weight. However, the mandatory positions were vacant when this happened.
I believe that the championship committee for all of boxing’s main governing bodies can use its discretion to override their own rules, but this doesn’t commit them to always doing it.
So the rule doesn't exist and the WBO won't always install champions from other weight divisions as their mandatory challenger whenever they venture into a new weight class.
If people believe I’m wrong, then it should be easy to provide three examples of mandatory challengers being stripped of their status by the WBO, with the mandatory status being awarded to champions from other weight classes that have decided to start competing in the same division.
Some fighters will be happy to get step aside money whilst retaining their mandatory status.
It's easily resolved
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 05:32
I already mentioned earlier on in this thread the possibility of step-aside fees and championship committees being allowed to use their discretion to override their own rules.ewenhay wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 05:25Boxing commissions only follow their rules when it suits them.Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 04:58The WBO doesn’t have anything specific in their rules that guarantees or even suggests that champions moving classes are automatically installed as the mandatory challenger in their new division.
I cannot find an instance for when the mandatory challenger lost his status simply because a champion from another weight class started competing in the same weight division.
That being said, there are a few examples, which appear to be exceptions rather than the norm, of fighters jumping the queue ahead of the highest rated contender to fill the vacant mandatory slot, simply because they were champions at another weight. However, the mandatory positions were vacant when this happened.
I believe that the championship committee for all of boxing’s main governing bodies can use its discretion to override their own rules, but this doesn’t commit them to always doing it.
So the rule doesn't exist and the WBO won't always install champions from other weight divisions as their mandatory challenger whenever they venture into a new weight class.
If people believe I’m wrong, then it should be easy to provide three examples of mandatory challengers being stripped of their status by the WBO, with the mandatory status being awarded to champions from other weight classes that have decided to start competing in the same division.
Some fighters will be happy to get step aside money whilst retaining their mandatory status.
It's easily resolved
The purpose of my post you quoted was to debunk someone’s assertion that the WBO always awarded mandatory challenger status to their champions when they decide to start competing in a new weight class, because it’s simply untrue.
There might be ways around certain situations, which usually results in fighters being paid off to step aside, but no one should pretend that certain rules exist when they clearly don’t.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 05:36
Good for you.
But I think he already qualified it by saying it might not be a written rule but may be common practice instead.
It's a bit like Alvarez getting a shot at a title straight away at super middle. It happens all the time. Mayweather, Pac, many others have stepped up in weight and got title shots straight away.
But I think he already qualified it by saying it might not be a written rule but may be common practice instead.
It's a bit like Alvarez getting a shot at a title straight away at super middle. It happens all the time. Mayweather, Pac, many others have stepped up in weight and got title shots straight away.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:06
You're missing the point, he said the WBO always did it and claimed it was "standard", but then admitted he didn't bother checking the rules.ewenhay wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 05:36 But I think he already qualified it by saying it might not be a written rule but may be common practice instead.
It's a bit like Alvarez getting a shot at a title straight away at super middle. It happens all the time. Mayweather, Pac, many others have stepped up in weight and got title shots straight away.
As I've already stated, there are a few examples of marquee fighters (champs from other divisions) jumping the ratings queue ahead of the highest rated contender, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't recall ever seeing a mandatory challenger being stripped of his status and it being handed automatically to a world champion from another weight class that was deciding to compete in a new weight division.
If it's common, then provide more than three examples? It should be easy to do if it's an "unwritten rule" that is always adhered to.
Anthony Joshua is obliged to perform mandatory defences of all three of his world titles on an almost annual basis. It’s rare to see him engage in voluntaries, because there’s often not enough time for him in his schedule to fit in these sort of bouts. Eddie Hearn has mentioned this also.
The only way that the IBF, WBA & WBO will allow AJ to postpone a mandatory defence, is if he participates in a title unification instead.
AJ may be able to fit in a voluntary if there is no pressing need to face any of his mandatories, but when's the last time Joshua hasn't had a mandatory challenger from the WBA, WBO or IBF? It's rare.
Look, I’d love to be proven wrong about this, as I’d like to see a bout between Usyk and Joshua, but in reality, it probably won’t happen for at least another 18 months or so.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:24
Nobody said the mandatory challenger would be stripped.
It's simply a step aside situation.
It's simply a step aside situation.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:26
Your mistake is in thinking that boxing commission rules are always adhered to. The reality is that they are not, they are entirely fluid and at the discretion of the commissioning bodies.Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 07:06You're missing the point, he said the WBO always did it and claimed it was "standard", but then admitted he didn't bother checking the rules.ewenhay wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 05:36 But I think he already qualified it by saying it might not be a written rule but may be common practice instead.
It's a bit like Alvarez getting a shot at a title straight away at super middle. It happens all the time. Mayweather, Pac, many others have stepped up in weight and got title shots straight away.
As I've already stated, there are a few examples of marquee fighters (champs from other divisions) jumping the ratings queue ahead of the highest rated contender, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't recall ever seeing a mandatory challenger being stripped of his status and it being handed automatically to a world champion from another weight class that was deciding to compete in a new weight division.
If it's common, then provide more than three examples? It should be easy to do if it's an "unwritten rule" that is always adhered to.
Anthony Joshua is obliged to perform mandatory defences of all three of his world titles on an almost annual basis. It’s rare to see him engage in voluntaries, because there’s often not enough time for him in his schedule to fit in these sort of bouts. Eddie Hearn has mentioned this also.
The only way that the IBF, WBA & WBO will allow AJ to postpone a mandatory defence, is if he participates in a title unification instead.
AJ may be able to fit in a voluntary if there is no pressing need to face any of his mandatories, but when's the last time Joshua hasn't had a mandatory challenger from the WBA, WBO or IBF? It's rare.
Look, I’d love to be proven wrong about this, as I’d like to see a bout between Usyk and Joshua, but in reality, it probably won’t happen for at least another 18 months or so.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:28
As it happens, the WBO currently hasn’t named a mandatory challenger, so they could theoretically award him this status.
I really hope they do, because I want to see a bout between Usyk and Joshua.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:31
And numerous boxers have stepped up in weight and automatically got title shots when there have been mandatory challengers with various governing bodies. It happens all the time. The mandatory challengers don't get stripped, they just step aside.
Mandatory challenger status means very little in reality. Just look at Dillian Whyte as a recent example.
Mayweather, Pac, De la Hoya, Alvarez, Lomachenko etc etc have all stepped up and got title shots straight away
Mandatory challenger status means very little in reality. Just look at Dillian Whyte as a recent example.
Mayweather, Pac, De la Hoya, Alvarez, Lomachenko etc etc have all stepped up and got title shots straight away
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:35
I've already mentioned the possibility of mandatory challengers stepping aside three times in this thread. I'm not arguing with you about this, since we seem to share the same opinion.ewenhay wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 07:31 And numerous boxers have stepped up in weight and automatically got title shots when there have been mandatory challengers with various governing bodies. It happens all the time. The mandatory challengers don't get stripped, they just step aside.
Mandatory challenger status means very little in reality. Just look at Dillian Whyte as a recent example.
Mayweather, Pac, De la Hoya, Alvarez, Lomachenko etc etc have all stepped up and got title shots straight away
I actually mentioned the possibility of step-aside fees before you did in this thread.
The thing that makes it more challenging, is Eddie Hearn's track record for paying huge step-aside fees to fighters. I think he's been more reluctant than TMT, Top Rank and Golden Boy, because Matchroom wasn't previously generating the massive PPV revenue that Showtime and HBO were.
I honestly don't know if DAZN would be willing to fund such antics, but I suspect they have enough money in the bank to pay such fees.
The mandatory challenger slot in the WBO is current vacant and there is every likelihood that Usyk will receive this status, assuming he feels ready to face AJ within the next twelve months.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:38
It would be pretty easy.Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 07:35I've already mentioned the possibility of mandatory challengers stepping aside three times in this thread. I'm not arguing with you about this, since we seen to share the same opinion.ewenhay wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 07:31 And numerous boxers have stepped up in weight and automatically got title shots when there have been mandatory challengers with various governing bodies. It happens all the time. The mandatory challengers don't get stripped, they just step aside.
Mandatory challenger status means very little in reality. Just look at Dillian Whyte as a recent example.
Mayweather, Pac, De la Hoya, Alvarez, Lomachenko etc etc have all stepped up and got title shots straight away
The thing that makes it more challenging, is Eddie Hearn's track record for paying huge step-aside fees to fighters. I think he's been more reluctant than TMT, Top Rank and Golden Boy, because Matchroom wasn't previously generating the massive PPV revenue that Showtime and HBO were.
I honestly don't know if DAZN would be willing to fund such antics, but I suspect they have enough money in the bank to pay such fees.
If Hearn wants Usyk to fight Joshua next then he'll tell Whyte to wait and will reward him in some way if necessary.
The sanctioning bodies will get their fees regardless so they won't care one bit.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:39
As long as the champions are active then the sanctioning bodies don't really care about their mandatory challengers
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:40
The mandatory challenger slot for the WBO is currently vacant and there is every likelihood that Usyk will receive this status soon, assuming he feels ready to face AJ within the next twelve months or so.
Eddie Hearn seems to want an April 13th bout between Joshua-Whyte, before any fight between AJ and Usyk, as it'll generate more money.
Eddie Hearn believes that (or wants) Dillian Whyte will become the WBO’s mandatory challenger, before Usyk, which will facilitate AJ’s rematch against 'The Body Snatcher' on April 13th, 2019.
The WBO is the next mandatory defence for Anthony Joshua and I think it’s too soon for Usyk to face AJ in April, so Dillian Whyte will probably gain that status.
Joshua will also be obliged to face Kubrat Pulev soon (for his IBF mandatory). The question is, if Usyk gains WBO mandatory challenger status (when it becomes available again sometime during April), then Miller might be ahead of him in the queue, as the American will likely be installed as the WBA mandatory soon.
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 07:56
That would be Hearns dream.
All 3 mandatory challengers promoted by him.
Shades of Don King
All 3 mandatory challengers promoted by him.
Shades of Don King
Re: Usky next move??
Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 09:08
Usykl would have to fight at heavy once. Then he'll be the mandatory.