BoxRec

He was considered the champion by whom?

George Cooper, following the retirement of Tom Cribb, defeated Tom Mulineaux. Cooper, for a long time, was considered the "would be champion".

Since Mulineaux was Cribb's last two fights, and since Mulineaux was allegedly the "Champion of America", etc it made Cooper the man to beat in the mind's of the general public.

When he failed to beat Donnelly, the public outrage was madness. "How could our champion lose to some Irish bog bastard?", so here comes Cribb saying, "Oh well that's because Cooper wasn't really the Champion of England, my good friend Tom Spring is the true Champion of England after me."

That pissed Donnelly off, naturally, and in 1818 there was an effort to fight Tom Cribb (the lineal champion) with Donnelly traveling all the way to London but Cribb refused. It was all politics to undermine Cooper and Donnelly.

You are not quoting any source here. What newspaper or book considered Cooper "would be champion"?

George Cooper's record:
beat H. Lancaster, £35, 18r., 39m., Combe Warren, December 15, 1812
beaten by Tom Oliver, £25., 17m., 13r., Moulsey Hurst, May 15, 1813
beat Jay, £25., 8m., Shepperton Range, May 17, 1814
beat Tom Molineaux, 20m., 14r., Corset Hill, near Edinburgh, March 10, 1815
beaten by Dan Donnelly, £60., 22m., near Curragh, Kildare, December 13, 1815
beat Robinson, £50., 7r., Costerton, near Edinburgh, February 24, 1817
beat Massa Kendrick, £25., 65m., 69r., room, Peter Street, Westminster, May 4, 1819
beaten by Gas (T. Hickman), £50., 14.5m., 16r., Farnham Royal, Bucks, March 28, 1820
beat Tom Shelton, £100, 34m., 34r., Moulsey Hurst, June 27, 1820
beaten by Gas (T. Hickman), £100., 3m., 2r.. Harpenden Common, April 11, 1821
beaten by Ned Baldwin, £200., 26m., 21r.. Knowle, Maidenhead, April 11, 1821


Tom Spring's debut in the ring was in 1814, and his second fight in 1817. Cooper lost to Donnelly in 1815.

Cooper, both by legend and historical fact, was called the English Champion when he fought Dan Donnelly. I'll have to comb through some old books, etc but it's common sense--- he beat Cribb's top challenger & alleged American Champion Tom Mulineaux, therefore making him "the man".

Spring was nominated by Cribb. Not by any real merit. Due to politics all the way around. I'll get back to you on this.

Some quick facts on Cooper...

Bill Richmond, who backed Mulineaux in the two Cribb fights, called George Cooper "the best natural fighter I ever worked with".

Author George Borrow used Cooper as the basis for the character "The Flaming Tinman" in his book Romany Rye.

Cooper in later years opened up a school of defense in Edinburgh Scotland. He fought for thirteen years.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 17:30I think however, the reason for Cooper (and Prince Boswell and Posh Price) being so easily dismissed is because all three men were gypsies.

Jack (Gipsy) Cooper (weight 10st 10lb) was a different fighter from George Cooper (weight 12st).

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 19:24He fought for thirteen years.

What 13 years? I posted known record of Cooper above. Yes, he was a good, skillful boxer, but he lacked stamina/toughness.

I've not really looked into it, but I've seen a couple 1817 articles mentioning Carter claiming the Championship, and there was talk of Cooper fighting Carter, but while they sparred a few times, I've not found it happening.

Kentish Chronical called him the Champion of England on 04 September 1818

Carlisle Patriot - Saturday 01 March 1817
BOXING.—(From a Correspondent.)-The vapid and unintelligible paragraph that appeared in the Edinburgh Papers respecting the battle which took place last Monday at Costerton Houghead, about 14 miles from Edinburgh, between Geo. Cooper, and Robinson the Black, is something new even in the annals of pugilism. All that can be gathered from that paragraph is, that there was not any betting on the ground, Cooper being so decidedly the favourite, and that he won his battle in grand style in six rounds, having punished the black in a tremendous heavy manner. We are informed by a gentleman ho was present, that Robinson only got one blow at Cooper on the face, which did not even discolour nor fracture the skin, and in return he was inssantly grassed. It is allowed by the Fancy that Cooper is the best natural fighter on the list of pugilists, he is a complete two-handed fighter, avoids closing, and is superior to even the late celebrated Dutch Sam as a punisher. Notwithstanding he was beaten by Oliver about three years since, owing to his being at the time of the battle indisposed and a mere novice from the country, we find that Gentlemen of the Fancy, both South and North of Carlisle, are disposed to back Cooper against Carter at out next races. This may be done with propriety, since Cribb has prudently declined to enter the ring with Carter, who is proclaimed Champion of England. If the match is made, the battle may be expected to prove a very fine one, as both combatants have reciprocally beaten men who have alternately triumphed over and been beaten by them. For instance, Carter has beaten Oliver, and Oliver subdued Cooper, and Cooper vanquished Molineaux, and Molineaux beat Carter,—therefore, a match of greater equality can scarcely be made in the Sporting world. The Gentlemen of the Cumberland Fancy, we are informed, are still steady to Carter, and will back him to fight at our next races either Cooper or Donnelly.


Kentish Chronical - Friday 04 September 1818
Carter the Champion of England, Cooper and Gregson, have arrived in town from Cheltenham, up their way to Aix-la-Chapelle, to exhibit the art of selfdefence, under the patronage of several Noblemen in that city.
The match between Carter and Oliver is made permanent for 100 guineas aside. Eales and Isle of Wight Hall, are also matched for 60 guineas aside, to fight a stand up battle in a 24 feeet ring, on the 29th of Oct


Do you know why Carter is never included?

Found some old books from the 1820s and turn of the 20th century that go into great detail on Cooper, Donnelly and others from that time period.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-oUoA ... na&f=false

^Boxiana (1824)


https://books.google.com/books/about/Pu ... ead_button

^Pugilistica Volume 2 (1907)

Quite detailed. More than I've generally seen before. But yes, thirteen years Cooper fought. Apparently Jem Ward, a future champion, married Cooper's daughter.

Carter, is mentioned in detail in the books as well as Tom Oliver and others. Apparently Donnelly challenged Carter, but there was a dispute over money.

Oliver had beaten Cooper. Cooper had beaten Mulineaux. Mulineaux had beaten Carter. Carter had beaten Oliver. Donnelly had beaten Cooper & Oliver.

I guess the reason Carter may have not been as favorably held in retrospect was because he lost to the "American Champion", who just so happened to be black--- and he failed to face Cooper, Donnelly, and he was incapable of finding backers to secure a match with Tom Cribb.

If you ain't got the $$$$ no one has the time, so to speak. I'm reading the bios of these different men and it's gold. This is as detailed as it gets.

Senya13 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 19:27

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 17:30I think however, the reason for Cooper (and Prince Boswell and Posh Price) being so easily dismissed is because all three men were gypsies.

Jack (Gipsy) Cooper (weight 10st 10lb) was a different fighter from George Cooper (weight 12st).

George Cooper is said to have had gypsy blood--- though he was of no relation to Jack & Tom & Jem, and their cousins George & Tom. They were from Hampshire. Jack fought Young Dutch Sam in one of the biggest fights of the era.

William Hooper, The Tinman, who fought Benjamin Brain to a draw--- and defeated Bill Wood (another gypsy) was one of the more prominent fighters of romany heritage.

Tom Spring (Winters), Jem Ward, and even Joe Goss were of gypsy families.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 20:41But yes, thirteen years Cooper fought.

Indeed, I mistyped the date of Cooper-Baldwin bout in my notes, copy/pasted it from second bout with Hickman.

Where is that site of fights that is mentioned in George Borrows book (1851)?
"near the field of the chapel (in the precincts of the old town)
with venerable elms planted as saplings at the restoration of Charles II (1660)
that were as high as the steeples in 1850.
The fight was held on the bowling green of a hotel owned
by a retired coachman (with one leg).,

I think I may have come across some clues at to the location of the fight later described by George Borrow.

The retired Coachman ( with one leg)
who ran the hotel where the fight was staged
was Richard Gurney who died in 1829 ( at age 48)
The hotel was THE BOWLING GREEN INN in Norwich England.
The hotel apparently was razed and became part of the grounds for Bethal Hospital ( for the Insane).
with adjoining theater and tennis courts.
what fight was it that was held there and when ?

Never mind, I was able to find out which fight it was
it was a double feature
held at North Walsham
in July 1820
Painter vrs Oliver
and Sampson (from Birmingham) vrs Martin the Baker aka 'Master of the Rolls".
( there is a page on it over at google books but I'm unable to link it here for some reason).
https://www.books.google.com/books?id=g ... g=PA184&dq
( see what I mean ?)

any new info concerning this subject ?