BoxRec

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:17

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:15

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:12

The problem is you’re judging Cotto on what we know now, not what was thought then. Hatton was number one in the division after he beta Tsyzu. That doesn’t mean he was the best boxer in the division, it means he was ranked first.

What does it matter what anyone thought back then? It's a legacy question now.

* Haye was the best in his era at CW.
* Hatton was never the best at 140.

At what point those facts became clear is irrelevant.

He was ranked number one when he beat Tsyzu. Also, he was the best in the division when he beat Malignaggi which was seen as a fight between the number one and two.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:32

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:17

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:15

What does it matter what anyone thought back then? It's a legacy question now.

* Haye was the best in his era at CW.
* Hatton was never the best at 140.

At what point those facts became clear is irrelevant.

He was ranked number one when he beat Tsyzu. Also, he was the best in the division when he beat Malignaggi which was seen as a fight between the number one and two.

Ranking 1 & being "the best" are 2 different things. Hatton was never the best - nobody is really arguing otherwise, because they'd look rather silly in doing so.

Haye was the best, and not just by virtue of some ranking in a tiny window of time. He's accepted as being greatest of his era, potentially even the goat in his weight class. Hatton is lightyears away from such a status.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:38 It was the first and only time he made 140.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:40

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:38 It was the first and only time he made 140.

Yeah, I seem to remember he jumped to 147 for De la Hoya and then back down for Hatton. I can’t remember who he fought at lightweight though.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:34

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:32

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:17

He was ranked number one when he beat Tsyzu. Also, he was the best in the division when he beat Malignaggi which was seen as a fight between the number one and two.

Ranking 1 & being "the best" are 2 different things. Hatton was never the best - nobody is really arguing otherwise, because they'd look rather silly in doing so.

Haye was the best, and not just by virtue of some ranking in a tiny window of time. He's accepted as being greatest of his era, potentially even the goat in his weight class. Hatton is lightyears away from such a status.

Who was better in 2008 when he cemented his number one status?

And don’t give me Manny Pacquaio as he’d already signed to fight at WW.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:40

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:38 It was the first and only time he made 140.

Yeah, I seem to remember he jumped to 147 for De la Hoya and then back down for Hatton. I can’t remember who he fought at lightweight though.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:57

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:34

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:32

Ranking 1 & being "the best" are 2 different things. Hatton was never the best - nobody is really arguing otherwise, because they'd look rather silly in doing so.

Haye was the best, and not just by virtue of some ranking in a tiny window of time. He's accepted as being greatest of his era, potentially even the goat in his weight class. Hatton is lightyears away from such a status.

Who was better in 2008 when he cemented his number one status?

And don’t give me Manny Pacquaio as he’d already signed to fight at WW.

I could have told you without looking it up that Hatton was Pacs only official fight at 140 - it always sticks in my mind tgat one because 140 is probably Pacs optimum weight.

Regardless you're clutching at straws. I remember the build up to Hatton-Pac well... in amongst the playing of darts Hatton himself pretty much billed this as the fight he would prove he was unbeatable at 10 stone. He always argued 147 didn't suit him (as if he would have beaten Floyd at a lower weight lol), and he would demonstrate nobody was beating him at 140.

But forgot he got brutally wasted, his career by this point was a mess. He had a bustup with Billy & hired Floyds crackaddict of a father to try and reteach him how to fight.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:17

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:40

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:38 It was the first and only time he made 140.

Yeah, I seem to remember he jumped to 147 for De la Hoya and then back down for Hatton. I can’t remember who he fought at lightweight though.

Hatton-Gatti would have been a decent fight if Gatti had of got past Baldomir.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:57

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:17

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:40

Yeah, I seem to remember he jumped to 147 for De la Hoya and then back down for Hatton. I can’t remember who he fought at lightweight though.

Hatton-Gatti would have been a decent fight if Gatti had of got past Baldomir.

Yeah I always liked that fight, shame it never came off, there was talk for a while too.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:59

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:57

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:17

Hatton-Gatti would have been a decent fight if Gatti had of got past Baldomir.

Yeah I always liked that fight, shame it never came off, there was talk for a while too.

It was all but done. Deals were going to tabled and it would have been announced shortly after. Of course Gatti was done but it would have been a good one for him to go out on.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:57

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:17

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:40

Yeah, I seem to remember he jumped to 147 for De la Hoya and then back down for Hatton. I can’t remember who he fought at lightweight though.

Hatton-Gatti would have been a decent fight if Gatti had of got past Baldomir.

Yeah I always liked that fight, shame it never came off, there was talk for a while too.

Stuarty wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 13:04

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:59

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:57

Yeah I always liked that fight, shame it never came off, there was talk for a while too.

It was all but done. Deals were going to tabled and it would have been announced shortly after. Of course Gatti was done but it would have been a good one for him to go out on.

Better than Alfonso Gomez anyway! As a Gatti fan, that was tough viewing!

rhino222 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 14:13

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 08:53 Rising through the ranks haye was as exciting a fighter as they come. I remember fondly seeing him fight on the bbc, often on Audrey Harrison or Carl Froch bills. He was dynamite . Just unfortunate to be caught in that no mans land physically between cruiser and heavy.

Even if he’d stayed injury free, he didn’t really have the style to beat Joshua or wilder, and after last Saturday probably fury too.

i disagree......peak haye would have put wilder to sleep in my opinion. haye at his peak was elusive and very very sharp on the counter. wilder misses too often and then is wide open.

look at the sparring between the 2. with small gloves on wilder would have been more than wobbled.

ALI wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 14:35

rhino222 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 14:13

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 08:53 Rising through the ranks haye was as exciting a fighter as they come. I remember fondly seeing him fight on the bbc, often on Audrey Harrison or Carl Froch bills. He was dynamite . Just unfortunate to be caught in that no mans land physically between cruiser and heavy.

Even if he’d stayed injury free, he didn’t really have the style to beat Joshua or wilder, and after last Saturday probably fury too.

i disagree......peak haye would have put wilder to sleep in my opinion. haye at his peak was elusive and very very sharp on the counter. wilder misses too often and then is wide open.

look at the sparring between the 2. with small gloves on wilder would have been more than wobbled.

I agree.

I would not bet against a prime Haye vs any of Wilder, Fury, Joshua. His ring generalship, accuracy, timing and power were exceptional, but as he bulked up to heavyweight, and as he aged, his body started to break down and his skills started to diminish.

I actually felt very sorry for him in the 2nd Bellew fight. There is no way in my book Bellew could have lived with a prime Haye, but he will be remembered as getting his ass whooped by the bomber.

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 13:30 In 2005 Cotto had some serious question marks about him and few people had him as their number 1 at the weight.
The consensus was he was being fed opponents. He was also getting into wars with people he shouldn’t of been.

Most people would of probably had Hatton as the division number 1 in late 2005.
It’s easy to forget how much of a break-out fight the Malinaggi fight was. It made them both Cotto and Paulie into stars.

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:35 I don't think Hatton would have beaten Cotto. Cotto was a beast at 140.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 20:39

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:35 I don't think Hatton would have beaten Cotto. Cotto was a beast at 140.

Maybe not, but the view was much more split at the time.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 13:27

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:57

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:17

Hatton-Gatti would have been a decent fight if Gatti had of got past Baldomir.

Yeah I always liked that fight, shame it never came off, there was talk for a while too.

Hatton was a class above gatti, he would've walked through him. Gatti' abilities get overrated cos he was in barnstormers