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Posted: 08 Nov 2004, 15:56
by KOJOE90
lamphey wrote:The then powerful New York Commission had pulled his license because of his mob connections. Most US states followed suit.
I assume that is why he went to Sweden to fight in 1967?
Would have been intersting to see how Liston would have got on if he had been included in the elimination tourniment. Liston V Patterson 3 anyone?
Posted: 08 Nov 2004, 17:36
by stujones
KOJOE90 wrote:lamphey wrote:The then powerful New York Commission had pulled his license because of his mob connections. Most US states followed suit.
I assume that is why he went to Sweden to fight in 1967?
Would have been intersting to see how Liston would have got on if he had been included in the elimination tourniment. Liston V Patterson 3 anyone?
I have the Wepner vs Liston fight on tape, he looked okay and really anhilated Chuck. I'm sure that bout took place in America.
So what year did they pull his licence, remember the elimation tournament took place in 1968.
Posted: 08 Nov 2004, 17:42
by stujones
Anybody have these three on sale (VHS would be preferable), would buy or make a trade.
I'll wait untill the 4th one is out and buy the four if you would prefer. I will give the tape back if you want it aswell.
Let me know.
Stu.
Posted: 08 Nov 2004, 18:19
by lamphey
stujones wrote:
So what year did they pull his licence, remember the elimation tournament took place in 1968.
I think it was before the Clay/Ali fights, which I guess is why those title fights ended up in Miami and Lewiston. I guess the feeling against Liston just spread. I'm pretty sure Britain and most EBU nations wouldn't permit him to fight either.
The elimination tournament kicked off around mid 1967 while Sonny was still fighting in Sweden.
Don't take all this as gospel, I'm only going from memory of what I've read over the years.
Posted: 08 Nov 2004, 18:40
by Max Molyneux
Next Sunday's fight is about the Thrilla In Manilla too.
8)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/ ... 992061.stm
Man got to watch that one after my dad telling me about how much Fraizer hated Ali.
Posted: 09 Nov 2004, 08:14
by galway jack
Wasn't Sonny knocked out by Leotis Martin prior to that Tournament ?
That was the first time I've seen that KO . My God , it was devastating .
Posted: 09 Nov 2004, 08:42
by jamesmcdonnell
Yes, it was brutal, Liston's face looked like chopped liver.
Posted: 09 Nov 2004, 15:54
by KOJOE90
It was great to see Tony Demarco looking well on the documentary.
http://hagler.boxrec.com/boxer_display. ... _id=009701
Posted: 09 Nov 2004, 16:22
by MightyWarrior
KOJOE90 wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:The thing which makes me suspect is Ali's reaction. Ali is visibly annoyed that Liston has gone down, and screams at him to get up.
Maybe that was just because Ali was just so hyped up? I lean to the theory that it was a good sharp shot that caught Liston cold and/or by surprise.
Liston by this point was an old fighter with a big drink problem, whom had struggled for years and finally won the Title and guess what? Still nobody cared about him. He was the Heavyweight Champion of the World and he felt still nobody cared. That's bound to have an effect on a fighters spirit.
Liston was also in with a fighter who had the style to beat him every day of the week and I believe deep down Liston knew this to.
So when he got caught early I believe a mixture of shock, confusion over the count and Ali stood over him shouting and acting like a nut, Liston thought "sod it, nobody will care if I win anyway, so why take the chance of another beating".
Well that's my theory, but like you rightly say none of us can be really certain.
Yes I think you're probably close to the truth there. Ali just wanted to show a few more of his talents, and was frustrated is was over so quickly, after all that training plus the cancellation.
Deep down, I think Sonny knew Ali had his number. As for a dive, well he'd have probably made it look a little better than he did, plus he did actualy beat the ref's count ( but not the Ring's time keeper, ringside ).
And while Liston was favorite in the rematch, the odds were still pretty close.
Watch Liston's foot as the punch lands: it acutaly leaves the canvas in what looks an involuntary reaction, almost like he's gone into shock.
As for fight #1, well Liston's cornerman admitted, years later, that Sonny told him to "juice em up" ( his gloves ) just before the 5th, when Ali was blinded for a few minutes.
I really don't think Sonny wanted to lose that one.
Posted: 09 Nov 2004, 17:47
by lamphey
galway jack wrote:Wasn't Sonny knocked out by Leotis Martin prior to that Tournament ?
That was the first time I've seen that KO . My God , it was devastating .
Liston v Martin was a fair while after the tournament.