BoxRec

Some 'interesting' views expressed so far on here, as well as a healthy dollop of historical revisionism. So, Vitali first...
The fact is that the only time he failed to dominate a fighter was when he went in with the modern era's greatest heavyweight and gave Lennox one of the toughest fights of his career. Yes, there was the injury defeat to Byrd, but that was in a fight where he was comfortably ahead on the scorecards.
Relating to the above, Byrd himself is credited with saying that while Vladimir was the harder puncher, Vitali was tougher, but more importantly "had more ability" and was "better on his feet", which goes some way towards addressing the notion that Vitali was just a crude slugger.
Vitali didn't have one-punch KO power, but was undoubtedly heavy-handed - you only have to look at the awful beating Danny Williams took as evidence of that.

In terms of the modern generation, let's just remember that it's only 12-18 months since a significant number of posters on this board were decrying the state of the heavyweight division as the weakest in history.
Wilder may have had an exciting bout with Fury, but remains a raw boxer at best and against Vitali, therefore, surely no-one can make a case for anything other than a 'hail Mary' KO in terms of a Wilder win. Given the bombs that Lennox landed (that uppercut!), it's therefore on balance surely a reasonable assumption that Vitali would be far more likely to grind out a late stoppage or points win over Wilder than be on the end of a one-punch KO.
Tyson gave a great performance against Wilder and I certainly don't think it's impossible to envisage him outboxing Vitali, but my biggest concern is that I don't think he would hit hard enough to keep Vitali off him and Vitali's speed of movement and workrate tends to get under-rated. Again, on balance, I'd envisage Vitali's workrate taking him to a comfortable win, even though Tyson could make him look clumsy on occasion. As evidenced, ironically, by his two best performances against Wilder and Vlad, Tyson just doesn't work enough at times and that could cost him dear in a match-up like this.
Joshua for me is the one that's closest to a 50/50 bout.. and boy I'd have loved to have seen this one. I'll caveat things by saying I still don't think we've seen Joshua in his prime, but even given that, on balance I'd just favour him over Vitali. He's bigger, has greater athleticism and better one-punch KO power. I could envisage Vitali's toughness, workrate and under-rated boxing causing issues for Joshua, but I think he'd ultimately pull through by late stoppage.

Really interesting piece here on Vitali with thoughts from the likes of Lennox, Manny Steward and Larry Merchant:

https://www.ringtv.com/121995-what-make ... d-to-beat/

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:37

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:34 Don’t you think Vitali would simply toss Wilder about like a ragdoll and beat him up? I think he’d slap him about.

I really can't say. I can see Vitali absorbing those rights, and I can see him get hurt from taking too many. He wasn't exactly a defensive guru with his arms at his side for the most part. I just don't know.

Wilder doesn't land those rights against anyone with half a boxing brain

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:37

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:34 Don’t you think Vitali would simply toss Wilder about like a ragdoll and beat him up? I think he’d slap him about.

I really can't say. I can see Vitali absorbing those rights, and I can see him get hurt from taking too many. He wasn't exactly a defensive guru with his arms at his side for the most part. I just don't know.

Wilder doesn't land those rights against anyone with half a boxing brain

He landed them on fury who is arguably the best boxer in the heavyweight division now

thechump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:54

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:37

I really can't say. I can see Vitali absorbing those rights, and I can see him get hurt from taking too many. He wasn't exactly a defensive guru with his arms at his side for the most part. I just don't know.

Wilder doesn't land those rights against anyone with half a boxing brain

He landed them on fury who is arguably the best boxer in the heavyweight division now

Yeah, he landed 2 in 12 rounds, against a tiring Fury who'd spent 3 years out the ring and spent the majority of his training shifting the weight of a light-welterweight from his body. It's not that impressive

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:24 Some 'interesting' views expressed so far on here, as well as a healthy dollop of historical revisionism. So, Vitali first...
The fact is that the only time he failed to dominate a fighter was when he went in with the modern era's greatest heavyweight and gave Lennox one of the toughest fights of his career. Yes, there was the injury defeat to Byrd, but that was in a fight where he was comfortably ahead on the scorecards.

Ah yes, 'interesting' indeed.

1. 'He only failed to dominate a fighter' who was Lennox Lewis.

That might be impressive, were literally all of his other opponents except Byrd so mediocre.

Don't you think it's more telling that once he stepped up from B class (or C class) he was suddenly in a torrid fight and exhausted after a mere six--six!--rounds?

2. Byrd he was 'comfortably ahead on the scorecards'.

Yes, he was so comfortable he quit in pain rather than continue.

Moorer was also ahead on the scorecards versus Foreman, until he lost too.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 06:12

thechump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:54

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:30

Wilder doesn't land those rights against anyone with half a boxing brain

He landed them on fury who is arguably the best boxer in the heavyweight division now

Yeah, he landed 2 in 12 rounds, against a tiring Fury who'd spent 3 years out the ring and spent the majority of his training shifting the weight of a light-welterweight from his body. It's not that impressive

If your in a world title fight then your ready for a title fight tiring or not 3 years out or not fury was ready for a title fight,and a title fight lasts 12 rounds not 11 or 10 or 9 so you need to be sharp for 12 rounds. Plus he landed 2 of them punches in round 9 remember? Fury remembers. People say wilder needs to step up so he fights ortiz and people make excuses then he fights fury and people still make excuses fgs give the man some credit,no matter who you are its very hard to knock every oponent you have face out in 40 fights,mike tyson was the most feared man in boxing in my life time and he couldnt knock every opponent out,liston frazier foreman all hard men with a huge punch but tgey failed to onock every opponent out so give wilder a fair shout ye?

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 That might be impressive, were literally all of his other opponents except Byrd so mediocre.

Are you really trying to say that the likes of Wilder and Fury are light years ahead of Larry Donald, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter? I could understand you more if we were debating whether Vitali could have hung with some genuine greats, but we're simply not.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Don't you think it's more telling that once he stepped up from B class (or C class) he was suddenly in a torrid fight and exhausted after a mere six--six!--rounds?

Yep, you're right. Fighting on pretty much equal terms with the best heavyweight of modern times is a damning indictment on Klitschko's capabilities.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Yes, he was so comfortable he quit in pain rather than continue.

Yep, again, you're right. Rotator cuffs are trivial injuries and he should definitely have risked his career continuing.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Moorer was also ahead on the scorecards versus Foreman, until he lost too.

Thanks for proving my point about bias by making such a ridiculous comparison. Good luck in finding anyone else who views those two scenarios as comparable.

Personally, my verdict on Vitali will be formed by what I saw over his career, along with listening to third parties whose verdict carried weight, such as the likes of Lewis and Byrd.

thechump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:33

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 06:12

thechump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 05:54
He landed them on fury who is arguably the best boxer in the heavyweight division now

Yeah, he landed 2 in 12 rounds, against a tiring Fury who'd spent 3 years out the ring and spent the majority of his training shifting the weight of a light-welterweight from his body. It's not that impressive

If your in a world title fight then your ready for a title fight tiring or not 3 years out or not fury was ready for a title fight,and a title fight lasts 12 rounds not 11 or 10 or 9 so you need to be sharp for 12 rounds. Plus he landed 2 of them punches in round 9 remember? Fury remembers. People say wilder needs to step up so he fights ortiz and people make excuses then he fights fury and people still make excuses fgs give the man some credit,no matter who you are its very hard to knock every oponent you have face out in 40 fights,mike tyson was the most feared man in boxing in my life time and he couldnt knock every opponent out,liston frazier foreman all hard men with a huge punch but tgey failed to onock every opponent out so give wilder a fair shout ye?

That doesn't even make sense. If someone stuck you or me in a title fight tomorrow we'd not be ready for it by dint of being in it next time round Fury will be in a lot better match fit shape and Wilder won't land jack. Except the two KDs be landed literally sod-all of note. Round 9 is late

And you've kind of proved my point. You need to be sharp for 12 rounds, Fury wasn't, he wasn't in the best of shapes to be, he'd spent the most part last year losing weight, not getting fit, they're two different things

Wilder was fvcked against Ortiz, let's be real. I can't remember what round... the 8th? He was gone, if that round was 30secs longer, that was a brutal KO... he was completely gone and a big punch away from a stoppage. And then miraculously he got an extra minute to recover for no reason. I never even rated Ortiz that highly... terrible efforts vs Allen and Scott, coupled with the fact he's very old and has looked old in the ring since the Thompson fight a few years back

And you're talking about Wilder's 40 KOs like they're impressive. Who has he knocked out with a chin? I'd even take Dillian White's KOs over Chisora and Homer Simpson Browne as more impressive than any of Wilder's KOs... just look through his record, especially the first 30, they're absolutely laughable. Those names weren't even known in their own families. Wilder is the biggest joke of a Heavyweight champion I've even seen, most blown up, protected record ever. He's finally taken on a decent opponent in Fury and showed everyone that he has zero technique, no ring generalship, no tactics, just swing away and rely on your power, literally nothing else. And the ONLY reason he took the Fury fight was because he thought Fury was washed up/shot and it'd be an easy win

I don't think a torn rotator cuff loss is something you can use against a fighter. It's such a freak accident. If vitali fought Byrd again, tuan_jim would you have picked vitali to win or picked him to tear his rotator cuff again and lose? I don't understand this kind of criticism where a guy criticises a fighter but he would pick that fighter to win the fight if it had happened.

Lewis was pushing the pace for 6 rounds and I personally dont see wilder, fury or Joshua even lasting that long with that version of Lewis. I also don't think they have the heart to push the pace like that and take it to a dog fight.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:51

thechump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:33

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 06:12

Yeah, he landed 2 in 12 rounds, against a tiring Fury who'd spent 3 years out the ring and spent the majority of his training shifting the weight of a light-welterweight from his body. It's not that impressive

If your in a world title fight then your ready for a title fight tiring or not 3 years out or not fury was ready for a title fight,and a title fight lasts 12 rounds not 11 or 10 or 9 so you need to be sharp for 12 rounds. Plus he landed 2 of them punches in round 9 remember? Fury remembers. People say wilder needs to step up so he fights ortiz and people make excuses then he fights fury and people still make excuses fgs give the man some credit,no matter who you are its very hard to knock every oponent you have face out in 40 fights,mike tyson was the most feared man in boxing in my life time and he couldnt knock every opponent out,liston frazier foreman all hard men with a huge punch but tgey failed to onock every opponent out so give wilder a fair shout ye?

That doesn't even make sense. If someone stuck you or me in a title fight tomorrow we'd not be ready for it by dint of being in it next time round Fury will be in a lot better match fit shape and Wilder won't land jack. Except the two KDs be landed literally sod-all of note. Round 9 is late

And you've kind of proved my point. You need to be sharp for 12 rounds, Fury wasn't, he wasn't in the best of shapes to be, he'd spent the most part last year losing weight, not getting fit, they're two different things

Wilder was fvcked against Ortiz, let's be real. I can't remember what round... the 8th? He was gone, if that round was 30secs longer, that was a brutal KO... he was completely gone and a big punch away from a stoppage. And then miraculously he got an extra minute to recover for no reason. I never even rated Ortiz that highly... terrible efforts vs Allen and Scott, coupled with the fact he's very old and has looked old in the ring since the Thompson fight a few years back

And you're talking about Wilder's 40 KOs like they're impressive. Who has he knocked out with a chin? I'd even take Dillian White's KOs over Chisora and Homer Simpson Browne as more impressive than any of Wilder's KOs... just look through his record, especially the first 30, they're absolutely laughable. Those names weren't even known in their own families. Wilder is the biggest joke of a Heavyweight champion I've even seen, most blown up, protected record ever. He's finally taken on a decent opponent in Fury and showed everyone that he has zero technique, no ring generalship, no tactics, just swing away and rely on your power, literally nothing else. And the ONLY reason he took the Fury fight was because he thought Fury was washed up/shot and it'd be an easy win

My point is if i was getting a world title shot i would be ready at the end of the 8/10 week training camp to go 12 rounds,fury bases his style on a lot of movement now so he should of been ready for 12 rounds. My point is its hard to knock out 40 pro fighters,even 15 pro fighters cause like you say his first 30 like tysons first 15 or tommy morissons first 18 no one knew them. Anyway we are straying away from the point which is i think if wilder caught vitali he would hurt him and k.o him

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:44

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 That might be impressive, were literally all of his other opponents except Byrd so mediocre.

Are you really trying to say that the likes of Wilder and Fury are light years ahead of Larry Donald, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter? I could understand you more if we were debating whether Vitali could have hung with some genuine greats, but we're simply not.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Don't you think it's more telling that once he stepped up from B class (or C class) he was suddenly in a torrid fight and exhausted after a mere six--six!--rounds?

Yep, you're right. Fighting on pretty much equal terms with the best heavyweight of modern times is a damning indictment on Klitschko's capabilities.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Yes, he was so comfortable he quit in pain rather than continue.

Yep, again, you're right. Rotator cuffs are trivial injuries and he should definitely have risked his career continuing.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Moorer was also ahead on the scorecards versus Foreman, until he lost too.

Thanks for proving my point about bias by making such a ridiculous comparison. Good luck in finding anyone else who views those two scenarios as comparable.

Personally, my verdict on Vitali will be formed by what I saw over his career, along with listening to third parties whose verdict carried weight, such as the likes of Lewis and Byrd.

1. Yes, I am saying Wilder and Fury are lightyears ahead of Peter, Donald and Johnson. The latter three are fat losers.

2. Fighting on equal terms with a waning 38 year old at his career highest weight because he had only been expecting to fight cowardly fat loser Kirk Johnson--and still Vitali was knackered after six--six!--rounds.

3. Didn't say rotator cuffs were trivial. Byrd's defensive moves made Vitali miss and hurt himself. Vitali loses. Byrd wins.

4. I have no doubt that Lewis and Byrd praise Vitali's skills highly--it flatters them both.

Welcome to boxing!

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 08:53

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:44

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 That might be impressive, were literally all of his other opponents except Byrd so mediocre.

Are you really trying to say that the likes of Wilder and Fury are light years ahead of Larry Donald, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter? I could understand you more if we were debating whether Vitali could have hung with some genuine greats, but we're simply not.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Don't you think it's more telling that once he stepped up from B class (or C class) he was suddenly in a torrid fight and exhausted after a mere six--six!--rounds?

Yep, you're right. Fighting on pretty much equal terms with the best heavyweight of modern times is a damning indictment on Klitschko's capabilities.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Yes, he was so comfortable he quit in pain rather than continue.

Yep, again, you're right. Rotator cuffs are trivial injuries and he should definitely have risked his career continuing.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:16 Moorer was also ahead on the scorecards versus Foreman, until he lost too.

Thanks for proving my point about bias by making such a ridiculous comparison. Good luck in finding anyone else who views those two scenarios as comparable.

Personally, my verdict on Vitali will be formed by what I saw over his career, along with listening to third parties whose verdict carried weight, such as the likes of Lewis and Byrd.

1. Yes, I am saying Wilder and Fury are lightyears ahead of Peter, Donald and Johnson. The latter three are fat losers.

2. Fighting on equal terms with a waning 38 year old at his career highest weight because he had only been expecting to fight cowardly fat loser Kirk Johnson--and still Vitali was knackered after six--six!--rounds.

3. Didn't say rotator cuffs were trivial. Byrd's defensive moves made Vitali miss and hurt himself. Vitali loses. Byrd wins.

4. I have no doubt that Lewis and Byrd praise Vitali's skills highly--it flatters them both.

Welcome to boxing!

Welcome to the strange parallel universe you inhabit maybe, where Wilder is somehow light years ahead of the version of Samuel peter that Vitali beat and where Michael Moorer being KO'ed by Foreman is the same as retiring with a rotator cuff injury.
Your inherent bias shines through so much it makes any attempt at rational debate redundant.

Wilder will have a better resume than vitali when it's all said and done. Probably already has.

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:09

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 08:53

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 07:44
Are you really trying to say that the likes of Wilder and Fury are light years ahead of Larry Donald, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter? I could understand you more if we were debating whether Vitali could have hung with some genuine greats, but we're simply not.


Yep, you're right. Fighting on pretty much equal terms with the best heavyweight of modern times is a damning indictment on Klitschko's capabilities.


Yep, again, you're right. Rotator cuffs are trivial injuries and he should definitely have risked his career continuing.


Thanks for proving my point about bias by making such a ridiculous comparison. Good luck in finding anyone else who views those two scenarios as comparable.

Personally, my verdict on Vitali will be formed by what I saw over his career, along with listening to third parties whose verdict carried weight, such as the likes of Lewis and Byrd.

1. Yes, I am saying Wilder and Fury are lightyears ahead of Peter, Donald and Johnson. The latter three are fat losers.

2. Fighting on equal terms with a waning 38 year old at his career highest weight because he had only been expecting to fight cowardly fat loser Kirk Johnson--and still Vitali was knackered after six--six!--rounds.

3. Didn't say rotator cuffs were trivial. Byrd's defensive moves made Vitali miss and hurt himself. Vitali loses. Byrd wins.

4. I have no doubt that Lewis and Byrd praise Vitali's skills highly--it flatters them both.

Welcome to boxing!

Welcome to the strange parallel universe you inhabit maybe, where Wilder is somehow light years ahead of the version of Samuel peter that Vitali beat and where Michael Moorer being KO'ed by Foreman is the same as retiring with a rotator cuff injury.
Your inherent bias shines through so much it makes any attempt at rational debate redundant.

The Foreman/Moorer analogy is the perfect way to illustrate how redundant scorecards are if you ultimately lost. Whether counted out, or the more ignoble quitting on your stool, if you can't see the fight through it doesn't really matter. You're pretending not to understand this very simple point because of the weakness of your argument. You've put yourself in the untenable position of having to bolster Samuel Peter's reputation. Do I think the Wilder who beat Luis Ortiz and fought so gamely while trailing Fury is superior to the fat guy who pathetically surrendered on his stool versus Vitali and was bounced off the canvas repeatedly by the awful Jameel McCline? Yes I do. So does everyone, except you.

Samuel Peter, Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson. Good grief! And I'm the one inhabiting a "strange universe"!

RKY wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 11:41 Vitali was a class above all 3 of these bums.

And yet a win over any of them would arguably be the best on his resume.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 10:01

Deserter wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:09

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 08:53

1. Yes, I am saying Wilder and Fury are lightyears ahead of Peter, Donald and Johnson. The latter three are fat losers.

2. Fighting on equal terms with a waning 38 year old at his career highest weight because he had only been expecting to fight cowardly fat loser Kirk Johnson--and still Vitali was knackered after six--six!--rounds.

3. Didn't say rotator cuffs were trivial. Byrd's defensive moves made Vitali miss and hurt himself. Vitali loses. Byrd wins.

4. I have no doubt that Lewis and Byrd praise Vitali's skills highly--it flatters them both.

Welcome to boxing!

Welcome to the strange parallel universe you inhabit maybe, where Wilder is somehow light years ahead of the version of Samuel peter that Vitali beat and where Michael Moorer being KO'ed by Foreman is the same as retiring with a rotator cuff injury.
Your inherent bias shines through so much it makes any attempt at rational debate redundant.

The Foreman/Moorer analogy is the perfect way to illustrate how redundant scorecards are if you ultimately lost. Whether counted out, or the more ignoble quitting on your stool, if you can't see the fight through it doesn't really matter. You're pretending not to understand this very simple point because of the weakness of your argument. You've put yourself in the untenable position of having to bolster Samuel Peter's reputation. Do I think the Wilder who beat Luis Ortiz and fought so gamely while trailing Fury is superior to the fat guy who pathetically surrendered on his stool versus Vitali and was bounced off the canvas repeatedly by the awful Jameel McCline? Yes I do. So does everyone, except you.

Samuel Peter, Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson. Good grief! And I'm the one inhabiting a "strange universe"!

Just for the record i think peters was garbage too,he struggled with an out of shape James Toney and quit against vitali,johnson? Wtf is he? Tgere was some shite in the division between lewis and the current crop wasnt there? Phil jackson levi billups etc etc,we talk about wilders record but c'mon tell me anyone who vitali beat that wilder wouldnt of put to sleep.

Aye, I'm not actually a Wilder fan but I appreciate that he has some intangibles that make up for his crude clumsy style. Peter had literally no intangibles, and Johnson and Donald had so little character it made their talents redundant. Donald didn't even have the guts to stand up to Johnson, one of the most mentally fragile contenders of the modern era, and now this buffoon is trying to compare the three of them to Fury and Wilder! I enjoy a spot of devil's advocate but I would never want to argue the merits of those three losers.

There's literally not one single name on Vitali's list of victims that Wilder wouldn't have splattered.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 10:54 Aye, I'm not actually a Wilder fan but I appreciate that he has some intangibles that make up for his crude clumsy style. Peter had literally no intangibles, and Johnson and Donald had so little character it made their talents redundant. Donald didn't even have the guts to stand up to Johnson, one of the most mentally fragile contenders of the modern era, and now this buffoon is trying to compare the three of them to Fury and Wilder! I enjoy a spot of devil's advocate but I would never want to argue the merits of those three losers.

There's literally not one single name on Vitali's list of victims that Wilder wouldn't have splattered.

Amen

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 10:54 Aye, I'm not actually a Wilder fan but I appreciate that he has some intangibles that make up for his crude clumsy style. Peter had literally no intangibles, and Johnson and Donald had so little character it made their talents redundant. Donald didn't even have the guts to stand up to Johnson, one of the most mentally fragile contenders of the modern era, and now this buffoon is trying to compare the three of them to Fury and Wilder! I enjoy a spot of devil's advocate but I would never want to argue the merits of those three losers.

There's literally not one single name on Vitali's list of victims that Wilder wouldn't have splattered.

Donald did manage to beat evander when holy field had a wrecked shoulder. Went the distance though. I bet if wilder was leading fury and quit on his stool the narrative would be quite different. At least nobody in this thread is giving him credit for his brothers work.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 15:13

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 10:54 Aye, I'm not actually a Wilder fan but I appreciate that he has some intangibles that make up for his crude clumsy style. Peter had literally no intangibles, and Johnson and Donald had so little character it made their talents redundant. Donald didn't even have the guts to stand up to Johnson, one of the most mentally fragile contenders of the modern era, and now this buffoon is trying to compare the three of them to Fury and Wilder! I enjoy a spot of devil's advocate but I would never want to argue the merits of those three losers.

There's literally not one single name on Vitali's list of victims that Wilder wouldn't have splattered.

Donald did manage to beat evander when holy field had a wrecked shoulder. Went the distance though. I bet if wilder was leading fury and quit on his stool the narrative would be quite different. At least nobody in this thread is giving him credit for his brothers work.

Had Wilder quit on his stool, I'd pretty much would have been done with him, depending on how. If he was beaten into submission (obviously couldn't continue), so be it, but if he claimed broken hand or ingrown toenail, I'd tend to see that as merely an excuse for getting outgunned.

Obviously in that fight, I just mean the exact same circumstances as vitali/Byrd. Even past the acting like he beat Byrd and Lewis, the forgiveness and not even a whisper about his abysmal opposition whatever you think of the era is astonishing.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 17:07 Obviously in that fight, I just mean the exact same circumstances as vitali/Byrd. Even past the acting like he beat Byrd and Lewis, the forgiveness and not even a whisper about his abysmal opposition whatever you think of the era is astonishing.

Vitali's resume sucked. I agree. But it wasn't that he didn't fight who he should have. It was a weak era. Also, it's hard to get over him quitting vs. Byrd. I remember his trainer saying he didn't want to risk further injury. Bullshvt! His aura was damaged forever.

Regarding Lewis: Lennox was out of shape having expected a different fighter in front of him, and no one will convince me that he wasn't coming on and would have beaten if not stopped Vitali if the cut hadn't happened.

He fought weak fighters of a weak era.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 17:29 He fought weak fighters of a weak era.

Yes, but he didn't duck any of those lamers .except his brother. There just wasn't anybody really good. The era was a bit of a tweener era. Dominated by has-beens from prior period(s) and the next era's best weren't on the scene yet for the most part. and if they were they were a couple of years away from the discussion. All of that makes it difficult to rate Vitali's abilities. He showed quit (bad judgement) vs Byrd and a lot of heart vs Lewis. In between he beat up who he was supposed to. I've already posted enough of Vitali based on his value.