BoxRec

candyslim wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 13:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 08:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 08:40

You'd be happy with Whyte and Miller for his 2019 output?

When it could have been Fury and Wilder?

Meaning the heavyweight division might stay in limbo for another 18 months or so at least?

I wouldn't. If he doesn't fight one of Fury or Wilder in 2019 some serious questions need to be asked.

On the other hand, that's right too. But with all those negotiations of Joshua with Fury or Wilder, that occurred in past, there'll be no surprise, if Joshua doesn't face anyone of them in 2019. I guess, the problem is in AJ's side. He had that sh*t with both Wilder and Fury, while Fury and Wilder made a deal with each other without any troubles.

It was always going to be that way. Wilder's people looking for a good name opponent at the least possible risk. They are businessmen. Oh look Fury is back after a three year lay-off, two of which spent partying. Sign him up.

Fury looks at Wilder and fancies he can get the job done even if he is still some way off the pace, where do I sign?

Neither of them are seeing a lame duck when they look at Joshua. They realize they will not start favourite and could get beaten, even humiliated. They're going to want top dollar it's understandable. Joshua can afford to pay them what they're asking but he has played the long game to get to where he can dictate terms, and it offends his
sensibilities that he is still being expected to compromise and to make these guys their fortunes for them.

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:39

candyslim wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 13:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 08:46

On the other hand, that's right too. But with all those negotiations of Joshua with Fury or Wilder, that occurred in past, there'll be no surprise, if Joshua doesn't face anyone of them in 2019. I guess, the problem is in AJ's side. He had that sh*t with both Wilder and Fury, while Fury and Wilder made a deal with each other without any troubles.

It was always going to be that way. Wilder's people looking for a good name opponent at the least possible risk. They are businessmen. Oh look Fury is back after a three year lay-off, two of which spent partying. Sign him up.

Fury looks at Wilder and fancies he can get the job done even if he is still some way off the pace, where do I sign?

Neither of them are seeing a lame duck when they look at Joshua. They realize they will not start favourite and could get beaten, even humiliated. They're going to want top dollar it's understandable. Joshua can afford to pay them what they're asking but he has played the long game to get to where he can dictate terms, and it offends his
sensibilities that he is still being expected to compromise and to make these guys their fortunes for them.

Offends his sensibilities?

Make fortunes for them?

It's boxing. It takes two to tango. I'm sure both Fury and Wilder would accept 40% no problem.

There's only one side using money to stop fights happening. This is exactly the place Hearn wants the fans to be in. Thinking the other guys were too greedy in order to legitimise defences against Whyte, Miller to keep all the money in the Matchroom house.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:39

candyslim wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 13:08

It was always going to be that way. Wilder's people looking for a good name opponent at the least possible risk. They are businessmen. Oh look Fury is back after a three year lay-off, two of which spent partying. Sign him up.

Fury looks at Wilder and fancies he can get the job done even if he is still some way off the pace, where do I sign?

Neither of them are seeing a lame duck when they look at Joshua. They realize they will not start favourite and could get beaten, even humiliated. They're going to want top dollar it's understandable. Joshua can afford to pay them what they're asking but he has played the long game to get to where he can dictate terms, and it offends his
sensibilities that he is still being expected to compromise and to make these guys their fortunes for them.

Offends his sensibilities?

Make fortunes for them?

It's boxing. It takes two to tango. I'm sure both Fury and Wilder would accept 40% no problem.

There's only one side using money to stop fights happening. This is exactly the place Hearn wants the fans to be in. Thinking the other guys were too greedy in order to legitimise defences against Whyte, Miller to keep all the money in the Matchroom house.

We're not going to resolve the lack of serious negotiations from both sides here. Wilder has Fury and then the winner can face AJ. If I'm Wilder and/or Fury, that's the best route to bigger AJ fight. The problem is that it leaves Joshua with no compelling foe until the Fall, assuming Wilder/Fury settle things by end of Spring.

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:48

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:39

Offends his sensibilities?

Make fortunes for them?

It's boxing. It takes two to tango. I'm sure both Fury and Wilder would accept 40% no problem.

There's only one side using money to stop fights happening. This is exactly the place Hearn wants the fans to be in. Thinking the other guys were too greedy in order to legitimise defences against Whyte, Miller to keep all the money in the Matchroom house.

We're not going to resolve the lack of serious negotiations from both sides here. Wilder has Fury and then the winner can face AJ. If I'm Wilder and/or Fury, that's the best route to bigger AJ fight. The problem is that it leaves Joshua with no compelling foe until the Fall, assuming Wilder/Fury settle things by end of Spring.

I agree.

But I also think Hearn is quite happy to milk the fans and have easier defences whilst pretending the other parties are being greedy.

ewenhay wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 15:39

candyslim wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 13:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 08:46

On the other hand, that's right too. But with all those negotiations of Joshua with Fury or Wilder, that occurred in past, there'll be no surprise, if Joshua doesn't face anyone of them in 2019. I guess, the problem is in AJ's side. He had that sh*t with both Wilder and Fury, while Fury and Wilder made a deal with each other without any troubles.

It was always going to be that way. Wilder's people looking for a good name opponent at the least possible risk. They are businessmen. Oh look Fury is back after a three year lay-off, two of which spent partying. Sign him up.

Fury looks at Wilder and fancies he can get the job done even if he is still some way off the pace, where do I sign?

Neither of them are seeing a lame duck when they look at Joshua. They realize they will not start favourite and could get beaten, even humiliated. They're going to want top dollar it's understandable. Joshua can afford to pay them what they're asking but he has played the long game to get to where he can dictate terms, and it offends his
sensibilities that he is still being expected to compromise and to make these guys their fortunes for them.

Offends his sensibilities?

cs : He figures he's the one filling stadia and making $25m+ per fight against any opponent. I don't know how much Deontay and Tyson got for fighting each other, but prior to that Deontay's best payday was $4m for Povetkin and I don't believe he's got paid out due to ongoing litigation. His usual return is $1.5 to 2.5m so I've heard.

Make fortunes for them?

cs: Yes who else is going to earn Deontay $28m (unverified number banded around on the internet as the most recent offer)

It's boxing. It takes two to tango. I'm sure both Fury and Wilder would accept 40% no problem.

cs: Wilder has said several times recently that he doesn't want to fight Joshua he wants Fury. That's not Eddie Hearn spin that's straight from the lips of Wilder. It amuses him that Joshua is begging to fight him, you must have seen the clips. Now I'm not saying that he's been offered 40%, I'm just explaining why i believe it's not happening. Frankly I don't give a flying one about the finances, I just want to see the fight.

There's only one side using money to stop fights happening. This is exactly the place Hearn wants the fans to be in. Thinking the other guys were too greedy in order to legitimise defences against Whyte, Miller to keep all the money in the Matchroom house.

cs: If that's what you believe, that's what you believe, but I see a fighter who has beaten two champions and faced most of the top guys in just 22 fights. He's got 3 or 4 belts and I believe him when he says he wants the complete set. You and I might want them to agree 50/50 and just get it done but I can see why Joshua would look at it very differently. It's a risky fight for both. Why should one man double his best payday and the other get ten times his?

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:03 people go on about hearn being some big dishonest liar but do you not think promoters/managers on all sides tell stuff that is slanted to make there side look better?

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:09

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:03 people go on about hearn being some big dishonest liar but do you not think promoters/managers on all sides tell stuff that is slanted to make there side look better?

He does his job. Keeps his guys relevant and draws attention. All promotors are paid to 'spin' whatever they can in order to induce bigger paydays. As I've posted before; Hearn = promotor = liar. Doesn't make him a bad promotor; no, he's a very good one. I personally can't stand him.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:09

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:03 people go on about hearn being some big dishonest liar but do you not think promoters/managers on all sides tell stuff that is slanted to make there side look better?

He does his job. Keeps his guys relevant and draws attention. All promotors are paid to 'spin' whatever they can in order to induce bigger paydays. As I've posted before; Hearn = promotor = liar. Doesn't make him a bad promotor; no, he's a very good one. I personally can't stand him.

But be honest you can't stand any promoter?
I know I can't

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:34

tiny_acres wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:09

He does his job. Keeps his guys relevant and draws attention. All promotors are paid to 'spin' whatever they can in order to induce bigger paydays. As I've posted before; Hearn = promotor = liar. Doesn't make him a bad promotor; no, he's a very good one. I personally can't stand him.

But be honest you can't stand any promoter?
I know I can't

You know it goes back to my early teens because of how Don King handled fighters and all his Bullsvt.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:37

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:34

tiny_acres wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:33
But be honest you can't stand any promoter?
I know I can't

You know it goes back to my early teens because of how Don King handled fighters and all his Bullsvt.

oogiebe wrote: ↑05 Jan 2019, 14:06 The story goes further in that Whyte was quoted as saying, "I'd love to fight for the WBA regular title." That would be vs Trevor Bryant.

Rgoodwin wrote: ↑05 Jan 2019, 18:13 I think Povetkin was both WBA and WBO mandatory when he fought Joshua. The only fight on the verge of being ordered would be Pulev. I think honestly Hearn couldn't reach a deal with Don King with the Bryan fight as to why that won't take place.

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Jan 2019, 10:18 Which is I'm sure Hearn's preference. Beat Whyte in the summer, that's one mandatory taken care of. Beat him in April and the WBO nominate a new summer mandatory I would think.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 22:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:09

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2019, 19:03 people go on about hearn being some big dishonest liar but do you not think promoters/managers on all sides tell stuff that is slanted to make there side look better?

He does his job. Keeps his guys relevant and draws attention. All promotors are paid to 'spin' whatever they can in order to induce bigger paydays. As I've posted before; Hearn = promotor = liar. Doesn't make him a bad promotor; no, he's a very good one. I personally can't stand him.

But be honest you can't stand any promoter?
I know I can't

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Jan 2019, 14:38 @Dan C Eire: That would be extremely cynical. If Joshua doesn't want to fight Wilder, then he's better than Lawrence Olivier and not just in the ring. A guy who has fought most of the top contenders, and won all but one belt in 22 fights doesn't strike me as a man who lacks courage or self-belief. Besides, Wilder has repeatedly said on camera that he doesn't want to fight Joshua, and has conceded Joshua is begging for the fight. Well I don't claim to know everything but if I see a little old lady lying in the street, and a brutish looking man standing over her holding a handbag, I'm not going to spend a lot of time wondering who I think is the mugger and who is the victim.

We know from Wilder that he has received several offers ro fight Joshua. We don't know what was offered but a figure of $28m has been mentioned on the net, who knows if that's right? What you'd call a reasonable offer depends largely on what you think a man who generally makes over $25m per fight whoever is in the other corner, should pay to a guy who generally makes less than a tenth of that, but who at the same time is holding the last quarter of the treasure map.

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Jan 2019, 15:08 The clamour has grown louder since Wilder v Fury but it isn't like team Joshua haven't made several offers before.

Whether you consider those offers to be reasonable comes down to individual opinion. Personally I'd say $12m and $15m are hardly terrible for a man whose average pay is about $2m but Wilder is sensible to try to find out what more he can squeeze out of Joshua knowing how much AJ wants that last belt.

It strkes me as very odd though that Wilder would pass up the unification to fight a man with no belt for half the money when he didn't beat him last time and you've got to figure he (Fury) will be better next time.

The Joshua fight was always intended to be two fights UK followed by US. That's a hell of a lot of money !

SteveO wrote: ↑07 Jan 2019, 15:42 AJ v Wilder might turn out to be like Bowe v Lewis or Foreman v Tyson - those greatly anticipated contests never happened!