Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Jacopodb wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 11:27
I got a special thing for Lennox Lewis... IMHO he's widely underrated: such a responsible fighter, with such a strong will, solid work-ethics, and unquestionable natural makings, cannot be bypassed so easily.
He belongs in that paradoxical category of fighters that are underrated due to not having fought in the most competitive era of their respective weight-classes: there are champions who benefit from that (Anthony Joshua and GGG above all), becoming tremendously overhyped, and fighters that have just not been able to fight on equal terms with huge names, because they simply weren't there at the right time (that's the case of Marciano, Calzaghe, and arguably Floyd Mayweather Jr.), therefore ending up to be underrated, obviously, as written already.
His record is more than respectable, with only two (avenged) losses testifying his winning mentality, and considering the fact that he has been an outstanding amateur, without taking anything from the Olympic fascinating glory, turning pro at the not-so-early age of 24, (technically a very bad choice, in my view, considering Lewis' means), we could say that, summing up both his amateur and professional achievements, he's really something special.
Technically, he was less flawed and more complete than most heavyweight boxing champions in history, from early clinchers/grabbers/wrestlers (with all due respect), to Alí himself. Tyson's boxing proficiency waned too dramatically when he lost his former speed, and Lewis never experienced such a fall from grace: I still think that Lennox might be the only one really being able to put Joe Louis' obvious superiority in serious jeopardy: Lewis had a wondrous lead right hand, granite chin, and a one-two that has Anthony Joshua blushing: the most powerful one-two I've ever seen in a boxer.
To me, arguably the greatest heavyweight in history, hands down.
Granite chin he got sparked twice .,....and lead right hand????
Could throw heavy lead-rights, altho shaded by his more famous one-twos, and his chin is vastly underrated because of those 2 KOs, but shìt happens: it was a lucky break/fluke, for both McCall and Rahman, nothing else than that.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
For the record I'd be inclined to agree that I'd favor Joe Louis against either Klitschko. I don't think it'd be a cakewalk for him necessarily, but I think he'd beat them.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
100%. Maybe the best pure punching technique in HW history. Lots of weapons and decent chin. Abe Simon; Buddy Baer to name a couple of big guys wrecked by the Brown Bomber. When he hit a guy, you can see the entire body take the shock wave.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
If wlad came out to inflict damage Joe could be in trouble. But he wouldn't and he'd get tagged. Vitalis activity and size would be a tough go. His lack of punch variety and fight changing power is where I think Joe turns him into a bloody mess.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 03 Feb 2019, 05:42
by locoxelbox
Never seen a World heavyweight title fight live but seen plenty of heavyweight champions fight, mostly in the amateurs.
World Heavyweight champions:
Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Anthony Joshua
Ray Mercer
Ruslan Chagaev
Bermaine Stiverne
Sergey Lyakhovitch
Joseph Parker
Seen plenty of great amateurs fight live as well, among others:
Felix Savon
Roberto Cammarelle
Odlanier Solis
Some of today´s top prospects/contenders:
Filip Hrgovic, Tony Yoka, Joe Joyce, Evgeny Tischenko, Sergey Kuzmin, Zhilei Zhang, Ivan Dychko, Hughie Fury
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
If wlad came out to inflict damage Joe could be in trouble. But he wouldn't and he'd get tagged. Vitalis activity and size would be a tough go. His lack of punch variety and fight changing power is where I think Joe turns him into a bloody mess.
Wlad is more talented than Vit, but styles make fights. I don't think Wlad could take what Joe would dish out. The less talented Vit has a better chin, so a late round win by Vit wouldn't be out of the question.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Feb 2019, 15:40
Louis would rip up either Klitschko.
Even @ 195?
Absolutely
I love Louis but even forgetting about size his slow footed style is terrible against either Klitschko he'd be destroyed by either brother
. If he was fleet footed maybe but he held his feet and fired off against guys 50 pounds heavier and good that's crazy.
Best combo puncher ever. He gave up 50 pounds in his day.
If wlad came out to inflict damage Joe could be in trouble. But he wouldn't and he'd get tagged. Vitalis activity and size would be a tough go. His lack of punch variety and fight changing power is where I think Joe turns him into a bloody mess.
Wlad is more talented than Vit, but styles make fights. I don't think Wlad could take what Joe would dish out. The less talented Vit has a better chin, so a late round win by Vit wouldn't be out of the question.
So subjective. I rate Louis, probably on par with Ali at HW all time. But, the Klitschkos were not Primo Canera or Jess Willard and their size and athletic abilities would give any HW in history problems.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 07 Feb 2019, 10:39
by candyslim
SenorPipino wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 10:22
Gee, if "live" is the criteria, then the best heavyweight I've ever seen is probably Pedro Lovell.
Son of Alberto if my memory is reliable. Can anybody think of any other father and son boxers both world ranked (top fiftyish) at the same time? Kali and Willis Meehan? ... close but no cigar. I have a nagging feeling I'm overlooking an obvious pairing ... help.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 07 Feb 2019, 10:58
by adislav123
Joe & Marvis Frazier during 81.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 07 Feb 2019, 11:05
by candyslim
They crossed my mind but I rejected the thought. Was Joe still active as late as 81?
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 07 Feb 2019, 11:18
by SenorPipino
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 11:05
They crossed my mind but I rejected the thought. Was Joe still active as late as 81?
Barely. He fought Jumbo Cummimgs to a draw at the end of 1981 and then retired.
Since Frazier hadn't fought since losing to Foreman again in 1976, it's improbable that he was world ranked when he fought Cummings.
And yes, Pedro Lovell's father was Alberto, who won a gold medal for Argentina as a heavyweight in the 1932 Olympic Games.
Interesting that those same Games were held in Los Angeles, where son Pedro rose to prominence as a professional 40 years later.
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 11:05
They crossed my mind but I rejected the thought. Was Joe still active as late as 81?
Barely. He fought Jumbo Cummimgs to a draw at the end of 1981 and then retired.
Since Frazier hadn't fought since losing to Foreman again in 1976, it's improbable that he was world ranked when he fought Cummings.
And yes, Pedro Lovell's father was Alberto, who won a gold medal for Argentina as a heavyweight in the 1932 Olympic Games.
Interesting that those same Games were held in Los Angeles, where son Pedro rose to prominence as a professional 40 years later.
Right. So if you're right about 1932 then his father can't be the Alberto Lovell rated along with Pedro by Boxing Illustrated forty years later. I guess they were brothers then?
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 11:05
They crossed my mind but I rejected the thought. Was Joe still active as late as 81?
Barely. He fought Jumbo Cummimgs to a draw at the end of 1981 and then retired.
Since Frazier hadn't fought since losing to Foreman again in 1976, it's improbable that he was world ranked when he fought Cummings.
And yes, Pedro Lovell's father was Alberto, who won a gold medal for Argentina as a heavyweight in the 1932 Olympic Games.
Interesting that those same Games were held in Los Angeles, where son Pedro rose to prominence as a professional 40 years later.
Right. So if you're right about 1932 then his father can't be the Alberto Lovell rated along with Pedro by Boxing Illustrated forty years later. I guess they were brothers then?
That would be Alberto Lovell Jr., brother of Pedro. I believe that Junior is deceased.
A true Argentine fighting family for many generations.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 07 Feb 2019, 12:50
by candyslim
Amazing what you think you know and almost fifty years later you find out you didn't.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 08 Feb 2019, 11:06
by SenorPipino
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 12:50
Amazing what you think you know and almost fifty years later you find out you didn't.
Don't beat yourself up. It appears even BoxRec has goofed.
On the records pages here, both gold medalist Alberto Lovell and his son Santiago Alberto Lovell, have the same photograph.
I'm certain the photo is that of the senior Lovell, but not the son.
So even the all-knowing BoxRec keeper of records is confused.
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 12:50
Amazing what you think you know and almost fifty years later you find out you didn't.
Don't beat yourself up. It appears even BoxRec has goofed.
On the records pages here, both gold medalist Alberto Lovell and his son Santiago Alberto Lovell, have the same photograph.
I'm certain the photo is that of the senior Lovell, but not the son.
So even the all-knowing BoxRec keeper of records is confused.
if you look up their respective pictures they looked exactly the same apart from the heavy facial scarring of the father.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 14 Feb 2019, 10:13
by Syntax Error
candyslim wrote: ↑07 Feb 2019, 11:05
They crossed my mind but I rejected the thought. Was Joe still active as late as 81?
Joe Frazier came back after a five year hiatus to fight in December '81.
Ironically, his nemesis, Muhammad Ali also returned after a less lengthy hiatus to also fight in December '81.
Thank goodness neither man won, because you can bet Ali V Frazier would have been in the offing for 1982.
Re: The best HW you have ever seen ?
Posted: 24 Feb 2019, 12:22
by ValMar
getnada wrote: ↑24 Feb 2019, 12:17
Anthony Joshua, by quite a significant margine in fact, all those super heavyweight olympic champions he KOed so early in his carreer already. All those beltholders and previous beltholders that don't even feel ashamed any more to duck him because he's that good. We have never witnissed anything like him in the history of the sport.
getnada wrote: ↑24 Feb 2019, 12:17
Anthony Joshua, by quite a significant margine in fact, all those super heavyweight olympic champions he KOed so early in his carreer already. All those beltholders and previous beltholders that don't even feel ashamed any more to duck him because he's that good. We have never witnissed anything like him in the history of the sport.
getnada wrote: ↑24 Feb 2019, 12:17
Anthony Joshua, by quite a significant margine in fact, all those super heavyweight olympic champions he KOed so early in his carreer already. All those beltholders and previous beltholders that don't even feel ashamed any more to duck him because he's that good. We have never witnissed anything like him in the history of the sport.
Are you serious ?
He's serious. Seriously fucktarded.
You're the Deontard here, not me.
It was a nice quiet 3 weeks without you posting. Why did you comeback?
