Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 16:36
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 13:33 "A DQ in a fight a guy is winning is not a loss in my book."
You need a new book.
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Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
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Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 16:38
If only Kennedy didn't go to Dallas, he wouldn't have been shot by Oswald.Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 16:36Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 13:33 "A DQ in a fight a guy is winning is not a loss in my book."
You need a new book.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 17:56
So if Tyson had started well against evander and then bit off his ear it wouldn't count as a loss?
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 18:01
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 17:56 So if Tyson had started well against evander and then bit off his ear it wouldn't count as a loss?
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 18:44
It's great news for golota!oogiebe wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 18:01Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 17:56 So if Tyson had started well against evander and then bit off his ear it wouldn't count as a loss?
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 05 Mar 2019, 18:55
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 18:44It's great news for golota!oogiebe wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 18:01Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Mar 2019, 17:56 So if Tyson had started well against evander and then bit off his ear it wouldn't count as a loss?
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 15:51
Foreman blatantly hits Roman when Roman is down. Seems to me that by the criteria used in Jones-Griffin Foreman should have been DQ'd. So I suppose Griffin beat Jones in the same way that Jose Roman beat George Foreman.
Without the foul Roy Jones would have likely won by kayo. So it's hardly analogous to Duran's losses where his opponent was simply the better man that night. It would be analogous to Duran losing by DQ against Buchanan after hitting him low.
Without the foul Roy Jones would have likely won by kayo. So it's hardly analogous to Duran's losses where his opponent was simply the better man that night. It would be analogous to Duran losing by DQ against Buchanan after hitting him low.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:04
Also the Tyson-Holyfield analogy is pretty silly. Holyfield had previously beaten Tyson and was well on his way to winning the second time. Tyson never seemed to seriously hurt Holyfield in either fight and never dropped him.
Also I find it telling that people are reduced to criticizing Jones for a fight in which he was DQ'd for doing what many other fighters have done without being DQ'd in a fight in which he seemed on the verge of scoring a stoppage. It speaks of how dominant he was in his prime that this is the biggest blemish they can bring up along with complaining about guys he didn't fight.
Also I find it telling that people are reduced to criticizing Jones for a fight in which he was DQ'd for doing what many other fighters have done without being DQ'd in a fight in which he seemed on the verge of scoring a stoppage. It speaks of how dominant he was in his prime that this is the biggest blemish they can bring up along with complaining about guys he didn't fight.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:07
Wasn't ruled a foul. Sometimes the ref will believe the punch was already on its way. That the fighter was committed to throwing it. I'm not saying I agree but again, no foul was called.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 15:51 Foreman blatantly hits Roman when Roman is down. Seems to me that by the criteria used in Jones-Griffin Foreman should have been DQ'd. So I suppose Griffin beat Jones in the same way that Jose Roman beat George Foreman.
Without the foul Roy Jones would have likely won by kayo. So it's hardly analogous to Duran's losses where his opponent was simply the better man that night. It would be analogous to Duran losing by DQ against Buchanan after hitting him low.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:12
It wasn't ruled a foul but it should have been, Roman was clearly down when Foreman hit him.
People don't make an issue of it because it didn't appear to affect the outcome, its not like Roman would have won without the foul.
People don't make an issue of it because it didn't appear to affect the outcome, its not like Roman would have won without the foul.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:14
These are completely different situations.
Foreman barely touched him; he continued punching in the heat of the moment. It was clearly different than the foul on Jones. The referee had little choice but to disqualify Jones.
This was the first round of a fight against an opponent that Foreman was going to steamroll.
Jones was in a very competitive fight against Griffin.
You can't even tell if Duran even hit Buchanan low. Even if the referee saw it, he wouldn't disqualify him for it. The most he would have done is give Buchanan time to continue and give the round to him. Duran was way a head and would have won the fight anyway.
Foreman barely touched him; he continued punching in the heat of the moment. It was clearly different than the foul on Jones. The referee had little choice but to disqualify Jones.
This was the first round of a fight against an opponent that Foreman was going to steamroll.
Jones was in a very competitive fight against Griffin.
You can't even tell if Duran even hit Buchanan low. Even if the referee saw it, he wouldn't disqualify him for it. The most he would have done is give Buchanan time to continue and give the round to him. Duran was way a head and would have won the fight anyway.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:16
Go watch both rounds of those fights where the late hit occurred. Compare and contrast. That should show you the difference. Seriously.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 16:12 It wasn't ruled a foul but it should have been, Roman was clearly down when Foreman hit him.
People don't make an issue of it because it didn't appear to affect the outcome, its not like Roman would have won without the foul.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:17
Vintage troll skipping over golota/bowe. 
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:18
Doesn't help is cause I guess.
Golota hit those balls harder than Mark McGuire.Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:32
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:33
LOL! You're a sleuth. You have EO-dar.Onetimeonly wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 16:32The best part is bringing up the Tyson 'analogy' when I was just making fun of the original moronic statement. I've long suspected this is eo's history account.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:14
I find it telling that no one has come forward to suggest that Griffin would have won without the foul. Perhaps because nobody seriously thinks he would have won. If your reduced to bringing up a DQ loss in a fight a guy is winning as criticism of his prime it just goes to show how dominant he was.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:18
The referee could have given Griffin 5 minutes to recover and if he couldn't continue declare the bout a no-contest. That's what happened when Tyson hit Norris after the bell.
As far as the referee not disqualifying Duran, why not? Fighters have been DQ'd for low blows before when their opponents couldn't continue. Also I believe Duran freely admitted to hitting Buchanan low. But he would have probably won just like Jones would have beaten Griffin.
Also, I find this argument that Jones didn't challenge himself by fighting better fighters pretty silly. Someone who fights Toney and Hopkins is clearly willing to fight good challengers. And the claim that Duran has 7 wins clearly better than Virgil Hill seems silly, he has maybe 2 wins that are clearly better.
As far as the referee not disqualifying Duran, why not? Fighters have been DQ'd for low blows before when their opponents couldn't continue. Also I believe Duran freely admitted to hitting Buchanan low. But he would have probably won just like Jones would have beaten Griffin.
Also, I find this argument that Jones didn't challenge himself by fighting better fighters pretty silly. Someone who fights Toney and Hopkins is clearly willing to fight good challengers. And the claim that Duran has 7 wins clearly better than Virgil Hill seems silly, he has maybe 2 wins that are clearly better.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:21
RJJ flagrantly and blatantly fouled Griffin. Self discipline is part of the fight game too.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 22:18 The referee could have given Griffin 5 minutes to recover and if he couldn't continue declare the bout a no-contest. That's what happened when Tyson hit Norris after the bell.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:25
Self-discipline is part of the fight game but plenty of fighters have gotten away with far more extensive fouling some multiple times. Just watch some Tyson fights-hitting after the bell, trying to break an opponents arm, low blow after low blow, etc.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:27
A foul called becomes part of the record, and thus history.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 22:25 Self-discipline is part of the fight game but plenty of fighters have gotten away with far more extensive fouling some multiple times. Just watch some Tyson fights.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:30
It does indeed but realistically I struggle to see this as a blight on Jones resume especially given that he appeared to be well on his way to a stoppage victory.oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 22:27A foul called becomes part of the record, and thus history.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 22:25 Self-discipline is part of the fight game but plenty of fighters have gotten away with far more extensive fouling some multiple times. Just watch some Tyson fights.
Re: Pound for Pound: Roberto Duran or Roy Jones jr. ?
Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 23:29
Have never heard anyone ever complain that Jones should not have been DQ'd. Never. And there are a lot of Jones fans.Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2019, 22:18 The referee could have given Griffin 5 minutes to recover and if he couldn't continue declare the bout a no-contest. That's what happened when Tyson hit Norris after the bell.
As far as the referee not disqualifying Duran, why not? Fighters have been DQ'd for low blows before when their opponents couldn't continue. Also I believe Duran freely admitted to hitting Buchanan low. But he would have probably won just like Jones would have beaten Griffin.
Also, I find this argument that Jones didn't challenge himself by fighting better fighters pretty silly. Someone who fights Toney and Hopkins is clearly willing to fight good challengers. And the claim that Duran has 7 wins clearly better than Virgil Hill seems silly, he has maybe 2 wins that are clearly better.
This was not a borderline call. Yes there have been other case where another fighter should have DQ's and wasn't. That doesn't mean Jones should not have been DQ'd. He blew it.
The ref wasn't going to DQ Duran for that. He had not been penalized the entire fight. He wasn't going to DQ him for one low blow. This isn't Bowe-Golota. Not to mention it's not clear whether Buchanan even got hit low. The replay is inconclusive.
Silly that Jones didn't fight better fighters? He had about 6 years to fight DM and never did. Instead we got treated to one stiff after another.