elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 11:06
Sugar Ray Robinson's third fight with Gene Fullmer was a great scrap. It was Robinson's last great performance of his illustrious career. I think he won that fight.
But fight #4 with the Cyclone was another story. Fullmer clearly dominated Sugar Ray. He roughed Robinson up with constant pressure and with some illegal blows using the arms and elbows and some telling rabbit punches. It looked like Sugar Ray could not keep up with the pace. Maybe it was age and wear and tear. He fought in spurts here and there. Not enough to keep Fullmer off him. In round 3 he was rocked and in trouble. Fullmer attacked him with a barrage of lefts and rights. Sugar Ray was ready to go. I didn't see Fullmer lose a single round after the 5th. By the time that Fullmer lost a round, it was the 13th, but he had the fight secured. I scored the fight 146-142 in favor of Fullmer. He became the second boxer ever to beat Sugar Ray Robinson twice.
Paul Pender -- You made me go look!
Paul Pender was the first man ever to beat The original Sugar Ray twice.
Gene Fullmer vs Florentino Fernandez. What a scrap between two rough and tough middleweight boxers. It was a classic brutal Middleweight fight. Fullmer was hurt in his shoulder by the late rounds, but he didn't give up. That tells me the heart and will that this great champion had.
I scored it a draw 144-144. It could have gone either way in my view. I wonder why there wasn't a rematch. Maybe the great Dick Tiger had something to do with that.
One thing about Gene Fullmer was that he was a rough and tough performer. He didn't care who was in front of him, he was going for the nitty-gritty. When he was fighting brawlers, he boxed a little bit. When he was fighting boxers and counter-punchers, he went at them giving extra amount of pressure. Although awkward, was very effective in his boxing ability. He had a little bit of versatility in him. He wasn't all about brute Force and stamina.
In the beginning of his career, he could bang. I don't know why he lost that punching power. Could it be that he was fighting real top opposition? Because his KO pct was 44%.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:53
Wow this has been awesome. In a month in a half, you have counted all the way down from your #100 to #97. Riveting.
We're studying the greats of all time pound per pound one by one.
Revisiting all their notable fights.
What were their strengths and weaknesses of each all time p4p great. You could pitch in and give an opinion about the great Gene Fullmer. Wasn't he a great fighter in your view?
Gene Fullmer vs Benny "Kid" Paret was another brutal contest between two tough champions. Paret was the World Welterweight Champion for the second time after defeating the great Emile Griffith in a controversial and disputed decision rematch.
Then, he went up to middleweight to challenge Fullmer. Fullmer proved that he was too strong and sent Paret back to the welterweights by admonishing Paret a tenth round knockout. Paret had the speed, but Fullmer's sheer strength and conditioning was too much. Many historians believe that this fight and not the Griffith's rubber match that got Paret killed. I can't see that why. He went down three times in round ten. The last knockdown was seen Paret hitting the bottom rope with his neck.
Parent gave him a tough battle, but The Cyclone was too much for him. This is another example of the great big man always beats the smaller great guy most of the time.
I realize this is about Fullmer, but I wonder how much Fullmer was to Paret as Max Baer was to Ernie Schaaf?
Between April of '61 through March of '62, in eleven months Paret went with Griffith three times, and squeezed Fullmer in as well; he took too many beatings in a short period of time; the 10 KO from Fullmer couldn't have helped much, the fatal fight with Griffith came just four months later.
There is no doubt what happened with Griffith was brutal, but I have to wonder if there wasn't a one year run up to the tragedy.
Also, it is odd but Paret bloated up to 156 3/4 (a ten pound gain) for Fullmer, after campaigning at 146 just two months earlier against Griffith, and then returned back to 146 again four months after Fullmer.
That much weight gain, squeezed in like that, probably wasn't to his advantage.
APerno wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 23:33
I realize this is about Fullmer, but I wonder how much Fullmer was to Paret as Max Baer was to Ernie Schaaf?
Between April of '61 through March of '62, in eleven months Paret went with Griffith three times, and squeezed Fullmer in as well; he took too many beatings in a short period of time; the 10 KO from Fullmer couldn't have helped much, the fatal fight with Griffith came just four months later.
There is no doubt what happened with Griffith was brutal, but I have to wonder if there wasn't a one year run up to the tragedy.
Also, it is odd but Paret bloated up to 156 3/4 (a ten pound gain) for Fullmer, after campaigning at 146 just two months earlier against Griffith, and then returned back to 146 again four months after Fullmer.
That much weight gain, squeezed in like that, probably wasn't to his advantage.
You're totally right. It was very brutal what Benny "Kid" Paret did. Too much strain on his body in a short period of time.
Dick Tiger vs Gene Fullmer I. I could only see clips on YouTube of that fight. It's not a complete footage.
But, of what I saw of the great Dick Tiger was that he was a terrific fighter that night. He was very sharp in his punches. Short, quick and precise punches. Fullmer could not rough him up. It was like he finally met his match. Tiger was his kryptonite. But, there was no quit on the Cyclone. He fought his ass off. The only bad thing of Fullmer was that he hadn't had a fight in 8 or 9 months since beating Benny "Kid" Paret. Maybe the tough fights were catching up on him. Gene at that point in his career had too many rough and tough fights. It had to take a toll on him somehow. But Tiger looked fantastic. The greatest win of his boxing career was on that night in Candlestick Park in San Francisco.
Well, the YouTube channel doesn't have the complete fights of Dick Tiger vs Gene Fullmer I and II. But they got a complete footage of fight #3.
It was a tremendous performance by the great Dick Tiger. He dominated Fullmer from the opening bell. Fullmer looked flat and wasted. Maybe it was his time to go. He quit in the end of round 7. I guess he was saying to himself, "I'm done! I can't beat this guy nowhere in the whole entire Earth!" It's time to hang up the gloves. And he did. It was the end of one of the Middleweight division greatest careers.
Gene Fullmer vs Gil Turner fight #3 was an all out slugfest. It was the rubber match between the two. Turner was a terrific fighter. One of the top contenders of the 1950s decade. He challenged the great Kid Gavilan of Cuba for the World Welterweight crown. He lost to Gavilan in 1952 by TKO in 12 rounds. It was also a brutal fight and one of the best of that decade.
I think that Fullmer edged it. He was as rough as they come. The date was February 17, 1956.
Look at The Cyclone's top opposition :
Sugar Ray Robinson (fought 4 times) 2-1-1
Carmen Basilio (beat Basilio twice)
Gil Turner (won 2 out of 3)
Joey Giardello (draw)
Dick Tiger (the only top man that he could not beat. 0-3 against him)
Rocky Castellani
Benny "Kid" Paret
Paul Pender
Florentino Fernandez
Ralph "Tiger" Jones (he beat Jones twice)
Ellsworth "Spider" Webb (he beat Webb twice)
The only thing was that he didn't held the Middleweight Title much more longer... He made 7 title defenses, though.
APerno wrote: ↑16 Jul 2019, 19:31
Encountered Tiger too late in his career; then again everyone has a nemesis I guess, so, so should he.
He looked flat against Dick Tiger in fight #3. It could be that Tiger was better. No shame on that. Gene lost his crown to a true all time pound per pound great. What a fighter. As a matter of fact, Gene lost his two crowns to two extraodinary all time pound per pound greats. The other one is Sugar Ray.
Still in the great Gene Fullmer series. I am watching Gene Fullmer vs Carmen Basilio fight #1 in San Francisco, CA for the vacant NBA World Middleweight Championship. What a slugfest so far between two of the toughest and rugged men ever. Are these two the last two great American white fighters? Your opinion, please?
In a fight that was supposed to be an all out slugfest, it wasn't exactly that, but a very entertaining fight. Gene Fullmer outboxed Carmen Basilio in their first fight in San Francisco.
The Cyclone was a smarter fighter than people ever gave him credit for. When he was fighting slick and smooth boxers, he used to pressure them to death with an undeniable stamina and relentless pursuit.
When he was fighting brawlers/sluggers, he used to use lateral movement and became a boxer. I was like, Fullmer is outboxing brawlers? He cleverly outboxed The Canastota Onion Farmer. Fullmer was winning the fight at the time of the stoppage in the 14th round, but I believe that it wasn't a good stoppage. Basilio was still defending himself and still concious. He was going to beat up the damn referee for stopping it that soon. The fight was The Ring Magazine Fight of the Year of 1959. I had Fullmer ahead at the time of the stoppage 136-134.
Gene Fullmer vs Carmen Basilio II, was not as entertaining as fight #1. Fullmer proved that he was the stronger guy. Basilio was tough. The referee stopped the fight in strange circumstances. Basilio was hurt, but not out of his feet yet in round #12. He was holding Fullmer a lot in that moment of terror. But, the referee stopped it too soon. That made Basilio angry and in this time, he hit the referee. He felt dicked by the referee twice. Anyway, he was losing, but he had the chance to rally back and win. I had it 108-104, Fullmer after 11 rounds.
I also saw Fullmer vs Spider Webb fight #2. As always, Fullmer's fights were entertaining and rough. You knew you was going to get your money's worth. I had Fullmer winning 145-142. The Webb's management complained about the decision but I believe that Fullmer won the fight. He was the busier fighter.
And with this, I finished studying the career of Gene Fullmer. A great fighter that could rumble with any other middleweight of any era. And you better be ready if you was fighting him. He didn't make it easy on anybody.
Next? A fighter that didn't need no introduction in the world over. His name? "Iron" Mike Tyson!
96. Mike Tyson.
Record: 50-6, 2NC, 44KOs
88% KO pct
Career: 1985-2005
Titles Held: World Heavyweight Champion (1986-90), WBA and WBC World Heavyweight Champion (1996).
Historical Impact: Love him or hate him, it was a must to see him fight. Won the heavyweight crown at age of 20, becoming the youngest man ever to do it. A cultural and global boxing icon that changed the game of boxing. Was one of the most feared heavyweights ever. Had a ferocity never seen at heavyweight since the days of the great Jack Dempsey. Also like Dempsey, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali before him, was the face of the heavyweight division and the boxing world of the late 80s and 90s decade. Revived the heavyweight division scene with quick one-round knockout wins. One of the 1980s decade greatest fighters, is also considered one of boxing's 100 all time pound per pound greatest KO artists.
Defining Fight: WKO1 Michael Spinks.....June 27, 1988....."91 Seconds!"
Other Defining Bouts: WTKO2 Trevor Berbick, W12 Tony Tucker, WTKO4 Larry Holmes, LKO10 Buster Douglas, LTKO11 Evander Holyfield and LDQ3 Evander Holyfield (II)
Accomplishments: Two-time Heavyweight World Champion. Made 10 successful title defenses in his first reign. Cleaned up the heavyweight division in the late 80s decade. Won first 19 bouts by knockout. Went undefeated in his first 37 fights, winning all of them. Scored 22 first-round knockouts. Beat 10 world champions. Record vs world champions is 11-4, 8KOs. The Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year in 1986 and 1988. Beat 2 out of 4 Hall of Fame boxers. Record vs hall of famers is 2-3, 2KOs.
What are your thoughts of this giant and legendary boxer?
Boxing187 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2019, 11:53
How about you post the full list and we talk about it, instead of waiting probably 2 years before you finish it all?
We gotta go one by one, my brothers. We're studying in full depth the pound per pound all time greats. What's your take on the great Mike Tyson?
I like Tyson a lot but it doesn't seem right to see him on the list. Popularity and impact, yes, but greatest 100 fighters? Not when you've already confirmed the following fighters are missing: Felix "Tito" Trinidad, Jack Delaney, Johnny Kilbane, Tommy Gibbons, Mike Gibbons, Lloyd Marshall, Harold Johnson, Peerless Jim Driscoll, James Toney. I can't see a case for Tyson being greater than any of them and Vicente Saldivar who's already been ranked.
That said, brilliant fighter in his peak just not quite a great one IMO.
Paul Pender was the first man ever to beat The original Sugar Ray twice.