BoxRec

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 15:02 You certainly are committed to this. I admire your "sticktoitiveness."

The exact merits of Morrisons best wins are open to debate but I don't see how they measure up to wins over a prime Ron Lyle and a prime George Foreman. He also beat Earnie Shavers only to get a draw. These are wins beyond anything Morrison managed.

It would be the equivalent of Morrison beating a prime Mike Tyson and Oliver McCall and taking Riddick Bowe to a razor-thin decision. Something along those lines.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 16:35 The exact merits of Morrisons best wins are open to debate but I don't see how they measure up to wins over a prime Ron Lyle and a prime George Foreman. He also beat Earnie Shavers only to get a draw. These are wins beyond anything Morrison managed.

It would be the equivalent of Morrison beating a prime Mike Tyson and Oliver McCall and taking Riddick Bowe to a razor-thin decision loss.

Lyle wasn't prime and Foreman was psychologically done. Shavers couldn't box, only punch. So...

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 16:45 Lyle wasn't prime and Foreman was psychologically done. Shavers couldn't box, only punch. So...

Lyle was as prime as he would ever be. Foreman was considered the second best heavyweight in the world and massively favored to beat Young.

These win are better than a win over an ancient Foreman who was getting gift decisions against Schulz and Stewart and an inactive Ruddock who was unranked and hadn't scored a good win in years.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 16:48 Lyle was as prime as he would ever be. Foreman was considered the second best heavyweight in the world and massively favored to beat Young. Try again.

I saw all those fights at the time, and I assure you, Foreman wasn't the same fighter after the Ali fight. Lyle got a late start in pro boxing and was 34 when he fought Young the first time and already on the downside after a rather short prime. But I'll give you that he could still hit hard.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 16:53 I saw all those fights at the time, and I assure you, Foreman wasn't the same fighter after the Ali fight. Lyle got a late start in pro boxing and was 34 when he fought Young the first time and already on the downside after a rather short prime. But I'll give you that he could still hit hard.

Even if thats true, they were still highly ranked. I don't see how anyone could possibly dispute that Lyle and Foreman were among the best heavyweights in the world at that stage and thus big wins for Young. Who else do you see beating Foreman in 1977 even if he wasn't the same as he was pre-Ali?

Had Morrison maybe of fought and defeated one or two more solid heavyweights of his era--- Seldon, Briggs, Schulz, Botha, etc--- we could probably better assess his overall standing and worth.

He just simply didn't do it. Beating Foreman didn't make him Holyfield. And he sure wasn't Moorer either, because at least Moorer beat men Morrison never fought. He never was Mercer either, who had wars at least with Lewis & Holyfield.

I'd say Morrison MAYBE was in the same league as someone like Francesco Damiani, but even that guy was kicking Mercer's ass for several rounds before getting bombed. I say this as a Morrison fan, so no rose colored glasses here. Tommy was just too damn inconsistent and didn't fight enough of the right people to really gauge how good he actually was.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 16:58 Even if thats true, they were still highly ranked. I don't see how anyone could possibly dispute that Lyle and Foreman were among the best heavyweights in the world at that stage and thus big wins for Young. Who else do you see beating Foreman in 1977 even if he wasn't the same as he was pre-Ali?

Sorry Coj. I think I'm done here.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 17:07 Sorry Coj. I think I'm done here.

Thank God.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 17:13 Thank God.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Jun 2019, 17:07 Sorry Coj. I think I'm done here.

Yet you haven't made any sort of case for Tommy Morrison having wins even remotely comparable to wins over a prime Foreman and Lyle. They were both among the divisions best at the time. If these wins aren't impressive than what does that make Morrison's top wins?

The thing I find shocking here is that people are picking a guy who was basically a journeyman/gatekeeper in the 1990s to beat a guy who was one of the very best of the 1970s.

Tommy Morrison appears to be roughly the level of Axel Schulz, Frans Botha, and Francesco Damiani

Does Damiani beat George Foreman?
Does Schulz beat Ken Norton?
Does Botha beat Joe Frazier?

Because that's basically whats being insinuated here. Young actually beat Foreman, took Norton to a razor-close decision and did better against common opponents like Shavers and Foreman.

I guess there is a first for everything. I agree with Cojimar that Young was better than Morrison. Morrison wouldn't have much more than a puncher's chance head to head.
However, Morrison was better than Schulz and Botha.
Damiani had some talent and you could argue either way on that one.

Damiani was good, but Morrison was better. Actually they both were winning before getting stropped by Mercer. Yeah, Damiani was winning for bigger amount of rounds, but he actually quitted. His nose was broken and he quitted after that. He was a solid boxer, but hadn't really big heart. He quitted vs McCall too. Morrison was far more gutsy. We've already talked about him knocking out Hipp with broken hand and jaw. He also overcame adversity in Williams fight, he wasn't fallen apart after bad start in Ruddock fight, he was fighting til the end in Lewis fight after being methodically battered pretty badly.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑10 Jun 2019, 11:37 If we're talking Jimmy Young from 1974-1977, Tommy Morrison doesn't have much of a shot beating him. If Shavers could only manage a draw, Foreman lost a decision, as did Ron Lyle, Ali had to be gifted a decision, and Norton arguably was also gifted a decision.... No way is Morrison winning.

Now Young from 1978-1990, Morrison absolutely knocks the snot out of him. If Cooney, Ocasio, Tubbs, Tucker, Page, Dokes, etc could do it so could Morrison.