Winner of Whyte-Rivas to become WBC mandatory challenger?

[candyslim]

AJ's is better no question. Fury beat Klitschko but that shouldn't earn him a title shot after three years of booze, drugs and fast food, followed by beating up pair of cans.

Wilder's fought Ortiz and Fury which could well be said to be better than beating Parker and whoever you want to propose as Whyte's second best win.

Having said that these guys are current or former champions. You have reason to expect them to have an outstanding resumé. There isn't a massive gulf between their records and Whyte's though is there?

[oogiebe]

AJ's is better no question. Fury beat Klitschko but that shouldn't earn him a title shot after three years of booze, drugs and fast food, followed by beating up pair of cans.

Wilder's fought Ortiz and Fury which could well be said to be better than beating Parker and whoever you want to propose as Whyte's second best win.

Having said that these guys are current or former champions. You have reason to expect them to have an outstanding resumé. There isn't a massive gulf between their records and Whyte's though is there?

No massive gulf, but I give Whyte the nod. I don't remember anyone complaining about Fury vs Wilder.

[Finkel]

The point is this is why the WBC originally ordered Whyte to have final eliminators with both Ortiz and Breazeale. Beating guys outside of the top 5 in the rankings shouldnt get you a mandatory shot.

Id say the same for Wilder aswell when he came up.

I understand your point, but the WBC don't seem to follow that rule for the other mandatories. So it would seem unjust to hold Whyte to such a strict standard.

Sorry, I'm going to repost from a different thread, as it will take too long to type it all out again, but it directly address your point:

Sounds good, but the WBC should stop messing around and just make the winner of Whyte v Rivas the mandatory. The WBC have already set a precedent of how they define their mandatory these past 3-4 years.

TLDR: The “mandatory” fights a “contender” to solidify their claim => the “mandatory” is promoted to actual mandatory status to fight Wilder due to external events => The “contender” then takes the position of “mandatory”.

Ignoring who is promoted by who and what influence that may or may not have, and ignoring the ratings of the fighters at the time, this is a quick summation of events over the last 3-4 years in the WBC’s game of thrones bad fan fiction:

• 1. Povetkin is mandatory for Wilder (2016). Fight is cancelled due to Povetkin failing a drug test (later shown to be an error).
  2. Whyte (WBC Int.) v Chisora (2016) WBC eliminator to face Wilder.
  3. Povetkin (mandatory) ordered to fight Stiverne – Stiverne then fails a drug test.
  4. Stiverne will fight Breazeale to become mandatory on Wilder v Ortiz undercard.
  5. Ortiz fails a drug test (LOL).
  6. Stiverne is promoted to mandatory and fights Wilder (despite fighting once in three years).
  7. Breazeale and Whyte in talks to fight as a route to Wilder. Talks break down.
  8. Whyte (WBC Int.) v Helenius for vacant WBC silver.
  9. Breazeale v Molina on the Wilder v Stiverne undercard (2017). A press release says it will be a “final” eliminator. Media outlets and Hearn challenge this. WBC correct the press release to remove the word “final”.
  10. After the fight takes place, WBC then say oh no, it was a final eliminator, and now Breazeale is mandatory.
  11. Arguing back and forth for a year
  12. Breazeale will fight Whyte in a FINAL final eliminator in 2019.
  13. Fury pulls out of the Wilder fight.
  14. Breazeale is promoted to mandatory and fights Wilder (2019).
  THEREFORE it would follow that Whyte v Rivas should be for the mandatory position.

Of course all the above is contingent on the WBC not being extremely cavalier with both its own rules and the precedent it seems to be setting above.


p.s. please correct me if there is anything wrong with the events I have listed above.

[candyslim]

Oh boy. If you've a spare 5 mins check out what I had to say as soon as the match was proposed. I was furious with both of them. Wilder for taking on a knackered old hulk who had nothing to offer but his name. Fury for taking a fight he was in no way ready for and would do well to last 4 rounds.

I don't know who was more astonished - me or team Wilder

G'night folks.

[Finkel]

Im not moving the goalposts at all. Finkel did a breakdown of Wilders opponents and what their ranking was and what the ranking of the guys they fought before they fought Wilder. He should do the same for Whyte.

Yeah I was trying to show the quality of opposition that Whyte had to face compared to Wilder's other challengers.

But I take your point that if I am instead going to argue that Whyte has a better resume than Wilder, I would have to do the same for Whyte's opponents.

But hopefully as ewenhay pointed out I've addressed that when compared to Wilder's other challengers Whyte thoroughly deserves his shot at the WBC title.

[oogiebe]

Oh boy. If you've a spare 5 mins check out what I had to say as soon as the match was proposed. I was furious with both of them. Wilder for taking on a knackered old hulk who had nothing to offer but his name. Fury for taking a fight he was in no way ready for and would do well to last 4 rounds.

I don't know who was more astonished - me or team Wilder

G'night folks.

Stop drinking and posting!

[Nondescript]

Yeah I was trying to show the quality of opposition that Whyte had to face compared to Wilder's other challengers.

But I take your point that if I am instead going to argue that Whyte has a better resume than Wilder, I would have to do the same for Whyte's opponents.

But hopefully as ewenhay pointed out I've addressed that when compared to Wilder's other challengers Whyte thoroughly deserves his shot at the WBC title.

Fair cop

The reason I mentioned it was because when you look at some of the guys that Browne, Helenius, Parker, etc fought just prior to fighting Whyte and guys they would have gotten there WBC ranking against they were pretty dire too.

[tiny_acres]

Fair cop

The reason I mentioned it was because when you look at some of the guys that Browne, Helenius, Parker, etc fought just prior to fighting Whyte and guys they would have gotten there WBC ranking against they were pretty dire too.

Yes sir I agree.
But arguing your valid point is futile when some just want to discredit another fighters resume. We could go through any fighters resume and do the same thing

[jamamb]

thats exactly what hes doing

[Nondescript]

Yes sir I agree.
But arguing your valid point is futile when some just want to discredit another fighters resume. We could go through any fighters resume and do the same thing

People discredit fighters resume's on here all the time!

Wilder being the prime example. Its not discrediting someones resume just for the sake of it if you're making factual statements.

[Finkel]

Fair cop

The reason I mentioned it was because when you look at some of the guys that Browne, Helenius, Parker, etc fought just prior to fighting Whyte and guys they would have gotten there WBC ranking against they were pretty dire too.

Yes and No.

It’s a bit difficult to do the same for Whyte based on WBC rankings, as both Parker and Browne were fighting predominantly on the WBO rankings. And the WBC don’t rank other organizations’ champions, which both Parker and Browne were within their last two fights before facing Whyte.

You could argue that Chisora not falling out of the top 15 was somewhat generous after losing to Kabayel for the Euro belt, but his win over Takam is a solid one. They were both top 15 at the time.

Robert Helenius, I would agree, he’s not stellar opposition, but he seems to have climbed the lower rankings by being active. He didn’t break into the top 15 though. Probably a comparable standard to Washington (who he is scheduled to fight next), and yet Washington was ranked #8!...

[Nondescript]

Yes and No.

It’s a bit difficult to do the same for Whyte based on WBC rankings, as both Parker and Browne were fighting predominantly on the WBO rankings. And the WBC don’t rank other organizations’ champions, which both Parker and Browne were within their last two fights before facing Whyte.

You could argue that Chisora not falling out of the top 15 was somewhat generous after losing to Kabayel for the Euro belt, but his win over Takam is a solid one. They were both top 15 at the time.

Robert Helenius, I would agree, he’s not stellar opposition, but he seems to have climbed the lower rankings by being active. He didn’t break into the top 15 though. Probably a comparable standard to Washington (who he is scheduled to fight next), and yet Washington was ranked #8!...

Who did Browne and Parker beat in the WBC top 15 to even get ranked by the WBC though?

[Finkel]

Who did Browne and Parker beat in the WBC top 15 to even get ranked by the WBC though?

Ah I see your point!

But not many of the ranked fighters have actually beaten anyone in the WBC top 15
Ortiz hasn't
Fury hasn't
Etc.
Etc.

[Finkel]

Though maybe you could check Ruiz, he might have been top 15 when Parker beat him.

Doubtful whether Chaegaev was for Browne?

It's getting into a bit of a rabbit hole if you ask me to dig that far, you have to draw a line somewhere

[jamamb]

meanwhile the same poster was big upping a win over brian rose

[oogiebe]

meanwhile the same poster was big upping a win over brian rose

Where was that?

[jamamb]

dude was saying in another thread that the beating brian rose was impressive. but has a campaign to discredit everything whyte does or even what he may do (rivas)

[Nondescript]

meanwhile the same poster was big upping a win over brian rose

You said Conor Benn will be a world champion

;)

[jamamb]

he will bruh

[Nondescript]

[jamamb]

and luke campbells beating loma, but feel free to forget this conversation if he doesnt

[Nondescript]

[joshj909]

[Enlightened-One]

Eddie said the same thing three weeks ago, which resulted in the creation of this thread, but the WBC have yet to provide any official confirmation of Hearn’s claims.

[tiny_acres]

Eddie said the same thing three weeks ago, which resulted in the creation of this thread, but the WBC have yet to provide any official confirmation of Hearn’s claims.

This is what I've been saying since the fight was made. Until I see an official statement from the WBC I won't believe it