BoxRec

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:24

SenorPipino wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 14:59 Right now, internet books are offering a tasty +250 on still-no one-believes Andy Ruiz.

Joshua is an absurdly heavy -350 favorite, despite being pounded out the first time.

Remember when Tyson was battered around by Holyfield as a 7-1 favorite, after opening a 25-1 choice? Tyson was still installed as a nearly 3-1 favorite in the infamous rematch, even if Holyfield emphatically proved his superiority the first time.

We all know what happened in that one.

So grab those generous odds on Ruiz while you can. It will get bet down.

Expect wagerers to realize that the guy who wins the first one in overwhelming fashion, usually turns the trick again the second time around.

I see this scenario playing out much like Lewis/Rahman. Lewis did not give Hasim the proper respect in preparation or seriousness and paid the price. But it was evident in the rematch who was superior.

I like Ruiz. But a more prepared, focused, and composed Joshua is going to dismantle him in the rematch.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:40

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:24

I see this scenario playing out much like Lewis/Rahman. Lewis did not give Hasim the proper respect in preparation or seriousness and paid the price. But it was evident in the rematch who was superior.

I like Ruiz. But a more prepared, focused, and composed Joshua is going to dismantle him in the rematch.

I wouldn't be surprised if Joshua wins the rematch, but I think it's gonna take a strategy of hitting and holding, and kinda stinking out the joint honestly for him to do it.

I think the best he'd be able to manage is a close decision, and avoid the in-fighting as best as he can. Hold on the inside, jab on the outside.

If he attempts to go for the KO or slug it out with Andy, I think it looks like the 1st fight again.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:42

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:40

I wouldn't be surprised if Joshua wins the rematch, but I think it's gonna take a strategy of hitting and holding, and kinda stinking out the joint honestly for him to do it.

I think the best he'd be able to manage is a close decision, and avoid the in-fighting as best as he can. Hold on the inside, jab on the outside.

If he attempts to go for the KO or slug it out with Andy, I think it looks like the 1st fight again.

I keep thinking of Peter vs Wlad. Wlad getting kd something like three times but squeeking out a decision win.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:38

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:24

I see this scenario playing out much like Lewis/Rahman. Lewis did not give Hasim the proper respect in preparation or seriousness and paid the price. But it was evident in the rematch who was superior.

I like Ruiz. But a more prepared, focused, and composed Joshua is going to dismantle him in the rematch.

Lewis was careless and probably poorly trained in the first Rahman bout. He was also careless and lackadaisical in the first McCall fight.

But neither McCall or Rahman owned Lewis that night. Just 1 punch. They didn't necessarily show themselves to be overall superior to Lewis talentwise in those abbreviated bouts.

Ruiz however, simply outclassed Joshua over 7. Looked the part of the much better fighter. There was no one punch KO. Just a systematic beatdown.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:42

I keep thinking of Peter vs Wlad. Wlad getting kd something like three times but squeeking out a decision win.

He won't win if he gets dropped 3 times. He'll barely win if he stays on his feet, and nullifies the action. That's his only winning strategy I think. He'd lose exchanges with Ruiz so he has to keep from having them. He has to use his height and range, and go into octopus mode any time Ruiz gets close to him.

It won't be entertaining, but he can win that way.

If he gets lucky and drops Ruiz, don't go crazy trying to finish him. Just take the 10-8 round, and keep sticking to the gameplan. If his gameplan isn't similar to the one I'm laying out I don't think he wins.

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:44

He won't win if he gets dropped 3 times. He'll barely win if he stays on his feet, and nullifies the action. That's his only winning strategy I think. He'd lose exchanges with Ruiz so he has to keep from having them. He has to use his height and range, and go into octopus mode any time Ruiz gets close to him.

It won't be entertaining, but he can win that way.

If he gets lucky and drops Ruiz, don't go crazy trying to finish him. Just take the 10-8 round, and keep sticking to the gameplan. If his gameplan isn't similar to the one I'm laying out I don't think he wins.

He can't hold though. He tried it a couple of times in the first fight and was grabbing fresh air.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:38

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:36

He can't hold though. He tried it a couple of times in the first fight and was grabbing fresh air.

He can work on that through training. AJ is strong enough to do that effectively. I still think Ruiz kayos him again.

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:40

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:38

He can work on that through training. AJ is strong enough to do that effectively. I still think Ruiz kayos him again.

I agree but it's harder to hold with smaller guys with lateral movement

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:44

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:40

I agree but it's harder to hold with smaller guys with lateral movement

He better learn. He'll never be able to move enough to keep proper distance against Ruiz.

candyslim wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 02:44

caldo2025 wrote: ↑20 Jul 2019, 18:23
.... But I don’t see AJ sticking around for glory

If he sticks around, and I think he will, it'll only be for the glory. He sure as hell doesn't need the money.

Although we all think he should just STFU in fairness I guess it's not so easy when everybody is bombarding him with questions about what went wrong. What's he supposed to say, "That's classified" ?

To answer my own question what he should have said is "I'm not making any excuses. I just got beaten by a better man on the night" but whether that satisfies the inquisitor is another matter. The thing is he is a boxer not a politician or a PR man. He is by nature honest and eager to please. He will answer the question truthfully as he sees it.

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:44

He won't win if he gets dropped 3 times. He'll barely win if he stays on his feet, and nullifies the action. That's his only winning strategy I think. He'd lose exchanges with Ruiz so he has to keep from having them. He has to use his height and range, and go into octopus mode any time Ruiz gets close to him.

It won't be entertaining, but he can win that way.

If he gets lucky and drops Ruiz, don't go crazy trying to finish him. Just take the 10-8 round, and keep sticking to the gameplan. If his gameplan isn't similar to the one I'm laying out I don't think he wins.

He can't hold though. He tried it a couple of times in the first fight and was grabbing fresh air.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 16:13

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:36

He can't hold though. He tried it a couple of times in the first fight and was grabbing fresh air.

I'm thinking if you dedicate a training camp to this strategy, you can learn how to use them muscles to grab hold of somebody

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:49

SenorPipino wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:38

Lewis was careless and probably poorly trained in the first Rahman bout. He was also careless and lackadaisical in the first McCall fight.

But neither McCall or Rahman owned Lewis that night. Just 1 punch. They didn't necessarily show themselves to be overall superior to Lewis talentwise in those abbreviated bouts.

Ruiz however, simply outclassed Joshua over 7. Looked the part of the much better fighter. There was no one punch KO. Just a systematic beatdown.

Not true. It was a very close fight at the time of the stoppage. I believe one of the judges had AJ up at that time.

jtourettes wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 17:00

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 15:49
Not true. It was a very close fight at the time of the stoppage. I believe one of the judges had AJ up at that time.

Boxing judges, those famously impartial and trustworthy people.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:44

ewenhay wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 18:40

I agree but it's harder to hold with smaller guys with lateral movement

He better learn. He'll never be able to move enough to keep proper distance against Ruiz.

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 16:24

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 16:13

I'm thinking if you dedicate a training camp to this strategy, you can learn how to use them muscles to grab hold of somebody

Agreed. He certainly has the strength.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 19:10

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 16:24

Agreed. He certainly has the strength.

Trouble is, joshua looked very robotic when things went agsinst him, not sure hes a fighter who is that adaptable. We will see.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 00:01

candyslim wrote: ↑22 Jul 2019, 02:44

If he sticks around, and I think he will, it'll only be for the glory. He sure as hell doesn't need the money.

Although we all think he should just STFU in fairness I guess it's not so easy when everybody is bombarding him with questions about what went wrong. What's he supposed to say, "That's classified" ?

To answer my own question what he should have said is "I'm not making any excuses. I just got beaten by a better man on the night" but whether that satisfies the inquisitor is another matter. The thing is he is a boxer not a politician or a PR man. He is by nature honest and eager to please. He will answer the question truthfully as he sees it.

Say that AJ comes back in the rematch and demolishes Ruiz. Do you see this as a learning experience for a future heavyweight legend or does AJ consider it redemption to his reputation and slip back into his mansion ordering his butler around burning $100 bills?

I see the latter. I just think that he is a product of the times. Back in the day, the majority of the money didn’t go to the boxers. Guys like Don King took advantage of boxers purses but fighters won larger shares of purses as they went on in their careers. Now, people are throwing ridiculous money around to secure boxers during this promoter civil war going on. It has really had a horrible effect upon the entertainment value of the sport. Just look at these cards this year. Putrid.

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 19:18

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 19:10

Trouble is, joshua looked very robotic when things went agsinst him, not sure hes a fighter who is that adaptable. We will see.

None of us are.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019, 06:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 19:18

None of us are.

None of us are what?

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019, 03:11

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 00:01

Say that AJ comes back in the rematch and demolishes Ruiz. Do you see this as a learning experience for a future heavyweight legend or does AJ consider it redemption to his reputation and slip back into his mansion ordering his butler around burning $100 bills?

I see the latter. I just think that he is a product of the times. Back in the day, the majority of the money didn’t go to the boxers. Guys like Don King took advantage of boxers purses but fighters won larger shares of purses as they went on in their careers. Now, people are throwing ridiculous money around to secure boxers during this promoter civil war going on. It has really had a horrible effect upon the entertainment value of the sport. Just look at these cards this year. Putrid.

I think you do the man an injustice. Joshua is phenomenonally wealthy and has been for quite a while, but he lives the life, always in the gymn. Joshua always predicted that would get beaten, even when many considered him only at risk from Wilder, and maybe Fury were he to come back in the kind of shape he's now in.

Maybe the problem isn't so much the 'silk pyjamas' it's more the courting of, and the demands of, the media, I mean take that whole circus in the build up to losing to Ruiz, going on all these talk-shows and giving interviews and holding court. It can't be good preparation for any fighter.

If he does beat Ruiz I think he'll regard himself as back on course, but he may be a little more circumspect in his choice of opponents - or at least Hearn might be.

I take your point about the money being thrown around and its effect on the sport though. It isn't his fault but Joshua hasn't helped that situation. You can't put the sh1t back in the donkey, I think we have to accept this is how it is now.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019, 09:41

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019, 03:11

I think you do the man an injustice. Joshua is phenomenonally wealthy and has been for quite a while, but he lives the life, always in the gymn. Joshua always predicted that would get beaten, even when many considered him only at risk from Wilder, and maybe Fury were he to come back in the kind of shape he's now in.

Maybe the problem isn't so much the 'silk pyjamas' it's more the courting of, and the demands of, the media, I mean take that whole circus in the build up to losing to Ruiz, going on all these talk-shows and giving interviews and holding court. It can't be good preparation for any fighter.

If he does beat Ruiz I think he'll regard himself as back on course, but he may be a little more circumspect in his choice of opponents - or at least Hearn might be.

I take your point about the money being thrown around and its effect on the sport though. It isn't his fault but Joshua hasn't helped that situation. You can't put the sh1t back in the donkey, I think we have to accept this is how it is now.

I don’t take AJ as being a reluctant star if you know what I mean. I think that he loves and craves media attention unlike some of the legends of the sport that found the press conferences and interviews being the worst part of the fight build up. Heck if I looked like AJ, I’d definitely be the same way. But I just don’t feel that we will be watching AJ fighting well into his 30s because it doesn’t seem like he’s fighting for history or a place in it.

I could be dead wrong. Hearn really screwed things up with bringing Ruiz in as the replacement in NYC. AJ needed to get a fight under his belt here in states before a quality defense. It was a lot to ask and hope for that AJ deal with all of that in his first fight in one of the most prestigious boxing locals. We shall see I guess. I hope you’re right because AJs been super for the sport.