BoxRec

Good match up for a couple of reasons.

1) The match-up is interesting. Age vs youth. A lanky giant vs a technical in-fighter. Good clash of styles.

2) Should there be a decisive winner, then that person makes a good case for fighting the winner of the Ruiz vs AJ rematch. Ruiz vs Potvekin could be a very interesting match up.

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 01:50
Well I've been called a conspiracy freak largely because of what I've said on this subject. When you consider how carefully matched Wilder has been, studiously avoiding unifications, and up until last year anybody of elite quality, I find it surprising that anyone would be naive enough to think he was going to be allowed to go to Russia to face a then formidable opponent on his home ground, where officials would be hostile and all the hometown advantages would be on the side of the Russian.

I'm not sure if that is an anti-Russian agenda so much as pro-US. I'm an outsider looking in, but it seems to me (I'm probably oversimplifying) that a good part of boxing's decline as a sport is the loss of its number one supporter, the American public, and a good part of that was the loss of the stranglehold Uncle Sam had always had on the flagship Heavyweight title. I don't think they would have been happy to see Povetkin complete the job that the Klitschko brothers had inadvertently been doing for so many years.

We have seen how much a part of the team is Mauricio Sulaiman. It wouldn't be too hard to convince VADA that it would be in everybody's interest to find a reason for 'just a slight postponement of the fight' would it? It has been said many times (invariably by the same poster) that this is crap because no way would Team Wilder turn down by far his biggest pay day so far, but as I always counter they would have good reason to expect payment without having to fight by suing the "Russian drug cheat" for loss of earnings. They did just that but Povetkin's people fought it and eventually won in a New York court.

I don't hate Wilder, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not anti-American or pro-Russian or any of that bollocks. I'm just someone who doesn't like the flavour of bullshit and isn't going to swallow it without gagging.

Okay, you are on to something. I'll admit that. Can you tell me, did Wilder's promoter lose out in a purse bid to Povetkin's backers? Is that the reason why Wilder took the fight in Russia, where Povetkin would have home ground advantages? If so, then I overlooked that whole aspect of this aborted match.

I always assumed Wilder and his team went to Russia willingly, because they liked the money, and they were convinced that their guy would win. Again, I totally overlooked that the fight's location could have been forced on Wilder & Co. by boxing politics and purse bidding realities.

I could look up the answers to these questions on my own, via google, but this morning I'm too lazy to do my own donkey work. So I'll let you give me the answer.

Meanwhile, I'm sticking to my "conspiracy nut" guns in speculating that politics, not sports, was behind the massive, ongoing, endless unmasking of Russian Olympians on dope. To me it's just too weird that the international Olympic sporting authorities would be catching just Russians, and nobody else. Hence my (possibly over-imaginative) tendency to extend that argument to Povetkin's troubles.

What you say about the New York court case is interesting. That gets me thinking.

ironbeard wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 00:31

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑31 Jul 2019, 23:12


I'm guessing it in that case it was primarily the boxing people. They were afraid that their cash cow, Wilder, would be beaten. He knew about the setup in advance. He never even went to Russia to acclimate and train. But of course the "statesmen and spooks" - and the media bosses - are always eager to hate on Russia. I agree with you about the probable outcome of a Pov-Wilder fight then and now. Pov showed some of what he could do early on in the Joshua fight, and I was so disappointed that he couldn't keep it up and ran out of gas. He also fought Wlad when both were at their peaks, and it was Wlad's most disgraceful fight. He hung on like an octopus. He should have been warned and then dq'd.

Now that you three have solved that conspiracy . . .

Thanks. Good detective work, huh? All that remains is to take the conspirators into custody. We've got Wilder and he's turning state's evidence and spilling the whole can of beans. Doc Margaret is in custody too but she's clammed up, said, "I aint sayin s--t to youse dirty coppers until my mouthpiece gets here , see!" Former Nevada State Senator Harry Reid is also going to testify. He said he's tired of getting bombed and beaten up by the Mafia. When we get through we'll break this whole dirty boxing racket, especially in Las Vegas, wide open!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 10:33

Winter king wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 06:44 I dont think hughie is good enough to defeat povetkin. If hughie beats povetkin thats a bigger upset in my mind than Aj AR ko.

I dont think Hughie will ever be as good as Pov was at his best, but I do have some uncertainty about Pov due to his age and the fact that hes coming off a year inactivity after a KO loss

I can't disagree with that. It will be almost a year. In the Joshua fight Pov. looked almost like his old self in the early rounds but then he ran out of steam, and now it's a year later.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 13:42

ironbeard wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 00:31

Now that you three have solved that conspiracy . . .

Thanks. Good detective work, huh? All that remains is to take the conspirators into custody. We've got Wilder and he's turning state's evidence and spilling the whole can of beans. Doc Margaret is in custody too but she's clammed up, said, "I aint sayin s--t to youse dirty coppers until my mouthpiece gets here , see!" Former Nevada State Senator Harry Reid is also going to testify. He said he's tired of getting bombed and beaten up by the Mafia. When we get through we'll break this whole dirty boxing racket, especially in Las Vegas, wide open!

jameswilson wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 09:40

morm wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 04:25 This fight i like and i watch it :)

I take it you've never watched Hughie Fury before.

hahaha i watch him, Povetkin is on the other site....something he has to say

JohnReed wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 11:37

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 01:50
Well I've been called a conspiracy freak largely because of what I've said on this subject. When you consider how carefully matched Wilder has been, studiously avoiding unifications, and up until last year anybody of elite quality, I find it surprising that anyone would be naive enough to think he was going to be allowed to go to Russia to face a then formidable opponent on his home ground, where officials would be hostile and all the hometown advantages would be on the side of the Russian.

I'm not sure if that is an anti-Russian agenda so much as pro-US. I'm an outsider looking in, but it seems to me (I'm probably oversimplifying) that a good part of boxing's decline as a sport is the loss of its number one supporter, the American public, and a good part of that was the loss of the stranglehold Uncle Sam had always had on the flagship Heavyweight title. I don't think they would have been happy to see Povetkin complete the job that the Klitschko brothers had inadvertently been doing for so many years.

We have seen how much a part of the team is Mauricio Sulaiman. It wouldn't be too hard to convince VADA that it would be in everybody's interest to find a reason for 'just a slight postponement of the fight' would it? It has been said many times (invariably by the same poster) that this is crap because no way would Team Wilder turn down by far his biggest pay day so far, but as I always counter they would have good reason to expect payment without having to fight by suing the "Russian drug cheat" for loss of earnings. They did just that but Povetkin's people fought it and eventually won in a New York court.

I don't hate Wilder, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not anti-American or pro-Russian or any of that bollocks. I'm just someone who doesn't like the flavour of bullshit and isn't going to swallow it without gagging.

Okay, you are on to something. I'll admit that. Can you tell me, did Wilder's promoter lose out in a purse bid to Povetkin's backers? Is that the reason why Wilder took the fight in Russia, where Povetkin would have home ground advantages? If so, then I overlooked that whole aspect of this aborted match.

I always assumed Wilder and his team went to Russia willingly, because they liked the money, and they were convinced that their guy would win. Again, I totally overlooked that the fight's location could have been forced on Wilder & Co. by boxing politics and purse bidding realities.

I could look up the answers to these questions on my own, via google, but this morning I'm too lazy to do my own donkey work. So I'll let you give me the answer.

Meanwhile, I'm sticking to my "conspiracy nut" guns in speculating that politics, not sports, was behind the massive, ongoing, endless unmasking of Russian Olympians on dope. To me it's just too weird that the international Olympic sporting authorities would be catching just Russians, and nobody else. Hence my (possibly over-imaginative) tendency to extend that argument to Povetkin's troubles.

What you say about the New York court case is interesting. That gets me thinking.

Yes Al lost on the bidding to Povetkin's backer, Ryabinski, mind you I can't imagine he'd have been too enamoured at the prospect of Deontay having to defend against Povetkin in the US. Let's be honest he hasn't shown reckless confidence in Deontay's ability has he? It might be said he has underrated him. His resume attests to that.

Another point I've always puzzled over is that Wilder never got to Russia. It was called off exactly one week before fight night at which time Deontay was training in Sheffield, England and flew home from there after the cancellation. My question is "When was he planning on getting to Russia? Did he have flights/ accomodation booked? Would you not think that a week before the fight he would be getting acclimatized, giving interviews, holding press conferences?"

The flaw in the theory was raised by Bigman, who made the very good point that it would have been much easier for the WBC to have simply not nominated Povetkin as their mandatory challenger. Now forgive me a flight of fancy but I imagine Haymon ranting at Sulaiman down the phone ...

"FFS Povetkin you're shitting me, right? ... I don't give a fukc if he's the outstanding candidate who deserves his shot, all the more reason to nominate someone else you half-wit"

and later ...

"I've lost the purse bid to that #+&% Ryabinski. If you think I'm gonna let my guy go to Moscow to be a human sacrifrice, you gotta nuther think coming. You fix this, I don't care how you do it just get it ferkin fixed ... and while we're on the subject Deontay is my guy and I decide who, when and where he fights, so next time you want him to fight a mandatory, you come to me and I'll tell you who that mandatory is going to be, right? Then when the timing suits me I'll tell you when to call it "

A lot of people will tell you this is all a load of conspiracy hokum, and maybe they're right. On the other hand People, especially those in powerful positions, lie, cheat, manipulate to further their agenda. It's important not to take everything they try to feed you at face value or before you know it, you're paying half your salary to support an imaginery orphanage in Nigeria.

JohnReed wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 11:37

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 01:50
Well I've been called a conspiracy freak largely because of what I've said on this subject. When you consider how carefully matched Wilder has been, studiously avoiding unifications, and up until last year anybody of elite quality, I find it surprising that anyone would be naive enough to think he was going to be allowed to go to Russia to face a then formidable opponent on his home ground, where officials would be hostile and all the hometown advantages would be on the side of the Russian.

I'm not sure if that is an anti-Russian agenda so much as pro-US. I'm an outsider looking in, but it seems to me (I'm probably oversimplifying) that a good part of boxing's decline as a sport is the loss of its number one supporter, the American public, and a good part of that was the loss of the stranglehold Uncle Sam had always had on the flagship Heavyweight title. I don't think they would have been happy to see Povetkin complete the job that the Klitschko brothers had inadvertently been doing for so many years.

We have seen how much a part of the team is Mauricio Sulaiman. It wouldn't be too hard to convince VADA that it would be in everybody's interest to find a reason for 'just a slight postponement of the fight' would it? It has been said many times (invariably by the same poster) that this is crap because no way would Team Wilder turn down by far his biggest pay day so far, but as I always counter they would have good reason to expect payment without having to fight by suing the "Russian drug cheat" for loss of earnings. They did just that but Povetkin's people fought it and eventually won in a New York court.

I don't hate Wilder, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not anti-American or pro-Russian or any of that bollocks. I'm just someone who doesn't like the flavour of bullshit and isn't going to swallow it without gagging.

Okay, you are on to something. I'll admit that. Can you tell me, did Wilder's promoter lose out in a purse bid to Povetkin's backers? Is that the reason why Wilder took the fight in Russia, where Povetkin would have home ground advantages? If so, then I overlooked that whole aspect of this aborted match.

I always assumed Wilder and his team went to Russia willingly, because they liked the money, and they were convinced that their guy would win. Again, I totally overlooked that the fight's location could have been forced on Wilder & Co. by boxing politics and purse bidding realities.

I could look up the answers to these questions on my own, via google, but this morning I'm too lazy to do my own donkey work. So I'll let you give me the answer.

Meanwhile, I'm sticking to my "conspiracy nut" guns in speculating that politics, not sports, was behind the massive, ongoing, endless unmasking of Russian Olympians on dope. To me it's just too weird that the international Olympic sporting authorities would be catching just Russians, and nobody else. Hence my (possibly over-imaginative) tendency to extend that argument to Povetkin's troubles.

What you say about the New York court case is interesting. That gets me thinking.

He's certainly on something. The wbc would never go out of its way to avoid a huge check. If povetkin would have fought and beat wilder that title would have been worth 5 times or so the $.

Well we don't know that do we, it's entirely speculative how much the rematch would have been worth. Aren't you always telling us how Americans care nothing for boxing, and haven't a clue who Deontay Wilder is? And that's after the Fury fight and all the posturing about the unification. How much less relevant would it have back then to your average American sports nut: Alexandr Povetkin v Deontay Wilder II from Moscow - can the Bronze Bomber win back his title

Now make sure you're sitting down because I'm going to say something complementary about the World Boxing Conspiracy : If money were their sole motivation, would they not have hitched their wagon to the Joshua gravy train about two to three years back?

No, they have been fiercely loyal to Deontay. Now that might be more to do with Haymon, I don't know, or maybe they are playing the long game. I mean maybe they realize that preserving and promoting America's Heavyweight Champion is the only way to prevent further loss of interest in Boxing in a country of over a quarter of a billion people. A people who used to be the entire powerbase of the sport. Maybe there is a nobility of purpose here, or maybe more likely they realize 'no point winning a battle and losing the war' - fukc me did i really entertain the possibility that the WBC's motivation might have been noble? I must be losing my grip

conan_the_cribber wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019, 11:02 Good match up for a couple of reasons.

1) The match-up is interesting. Age vs youth. A lanky giant vs a technical in-fighter. Good clash of styles.

2) Should there be a decisive winner, then that person makes a good case for fighting the winner of the Ruiz vs AJ rematch. Ruiz vs Potvekin could be a very interesting match up.

This is the best post IMO. I agree everything points to Povetkin by stats. Might be very clever match making taking on the faded version though or it will be dumb blindness.

candyslim wrote: ↑03 Aug 2019, 04:05 Well we don't know that do we, it's entirely speculative how much the rematch would have been worth. Aren't you always telling us how Americans care nothing for boxing, and haven't a clue who Deontay Wilder is? And that's after the Fury fight and all the posturing about the unification. How much less relevant would it have back then to your average American sports nut: Alexandr Povetkin v Deontay Wilder II from Moscow - can the Bronze Bomber win back his title

Now make sure you're sitting down because I'm going to say something complementary about the World Boxing Conspiracy : If money were their sole motivation, would they not have hitched their wagon to the Joshua gravy train about two to three years back?

No, they have been fiercely loyal to Deontay. Now that might be more to do with Haymon, I don't know, or maybe they are playing the long game. I mean maybe they realize that preserving and promoting America's Heavyweight Champion is the only way to prevent further loss of interest in Boxing in a country of over a quarter of a billion people. A people who used to be the entire powerbase of the sport. Maybe there is a nobility of purpose here, or maybe more likely they realize 'no point winning a battle and losing the war' - fukc me did i really entertain the possibility that the WBC's motivation might have been noble? I must be losing my grip

The initial fight was by miles the biggest purse for a wilder fight. Dont know about the rematch? Lol, I'm sure they'd love a piece of Joshua. So your conspiracies aren't about money? Surely you feel they're getting paid off to fix drug tests?

They had ample opportunity to get a piece of Joshua if that's what they wanted. Joshua would have been delighted to pay sanctioning fees to the WBC because that would have meant (pre-Ruiz) that he was undisputed champ.

I've never so much as hinted that I thought that is what it's about. Why do you even get involved? You ask me questions which can't be answered in a couple of lines, and then you moan about the length of the reply. Frankly I'd rather not get into it. It's all there on this thread if anyone wants to know what I think.

You always say you don't want to discuss it but it's all you talk about. I'm quite aware of your deranged views on the situation and the more wrong you are the more demonstrative you become.

So address my points and explain why I'm wrong, or don't - I'm not really that bothered.

candyslim wrote: ↑03 Aug 2019, 11:54 So address my points and explain why I'm wrong, or don't - I'm not really that bothered.

You didn't make any points to address and you're quite bothered.

I'm not remotely bothered. The only reason I'm even talking to you is that you piped up as you always do when you think anyone might be being critical of Wilder or his team. As you have worked out, I'm not very good at ignoring people however annoying they may be. I know what your position is on this so I'm not really interested in what you have to say.

The only reason this subject has come up again was that John Reed and I were discussing it, and I was trying to answer John's questions. Of course that's not a private discussion anyone is at liberty to join in, but there is a certain inevitability that the anyone in question would be you

And how would you know what points I did or did not make? You're not going to pretend you read each of my posts are you?

I tell you if I dont read your posts. This one I did, and again it contains no points. Just your typical nonsense. Joshua has been my favorite heavyweight since a handful of fights. I defend ray Leonard from nutjobs like yourself and he's my most hated fighter ever. And you're always bothered cupcake, you're a wilder puppet. The thread title is irrelevant, you're all wilder, all the time. That's why it came up, it's your boxing life.

You don't defend Ray Leonard from me. He fought and beat the very best. Great fighter. Anyway I think you're the one obsessed with Willder. Any bit of criticism and you jump to attention like dick you are. You don't like what I say, try ignoring it.

Please! Oneslimelonely & ooglie!

Can we give those redundant svckers their own, separated board?

There they could svck each other off endlessly.

They could have so much "fun" with each other & tirelessly terrorize whoever's masochistic enough to take part in their repugnant threads about who sucks best.

I'm all for it. Would make the actual forum just suck very much less.

adislav123 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 03:17 Please! Oneslimelonely & ooglie!

Can we give those redundant svckers their own, separated board?

There they could svck each other off endlessly.

They could have so much "fun" with each other & tirelessly terrorize whoever's masochistic enough to take part in their repugnant threads about who sucks best.

I'm all for it. Would make the actual forum just suck very much less.

It's been awhile since you used this account. Maybe you should get 3 or 4 of the other ones to agree with you.

adislav123 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 03:17 Please! Oneslimelonely & ooglie!

Can we give those redundant svckers their own, separated board?

There they could svck each other off endlessly.

They could have so much "fun" with each other & tirelessly terrorize whoever's masochistic enough to take part in their repugnant threads about who sucks best.

I'm all for it. Would make the actual forum just suck very much less.

Povetkin has got one more good win in him!

Povetkin by UD unless he gets jobbed.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 12:25

adislav123 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 03:17 Please! Oneslimelonely & ooglie!

Can we give those redundant svckers their own, separated board?

There they could svck each other off endlessly.

They could have so much "fun" with each other & tirelessly terrorize whoever's masochistic enough to take part in their repugnant threads about who sucks best.

I'm all for it. Would make the actual forum just suck very much less.

Contendeh wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 22:21 Povetkin has got one more good win in him!

Povetkin by UD unless he gets jobbed.

No one can have a "good win" against Huggie.
They can have a boring win, a lacklustre win, a sedentary win, and a cure for insomnia win.
But I know what you mean. And I disagree about it being a good win because Huggie is irrelevant.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑05 Aug 2019, 03:56

Contendeh wrote: ↑04 Aug 2019, 22:21 Povetkin has got one more good win in him!

Povetkin by UD unless he gets jobbed.

No one can have a "good win" against Huggie.
They can have a boring win, a lacklustre win, a sedentary win, and a cure for insomnia win.
But I know what you mean. And I disagree about it being a good win because Huggie is irrelevant.

Harsh, true and funny at the same time. I’m hoping Povetkin catches him cold before those legs start running. Preferably in the first minute of the first round.