BoxRec

lirva33 wrote:Hatton's just too open for a right from tszyu. He can't stay away from it all night. Tszyu, IMO, would obliterate Hatton. It would be a performance that would make everyone on this board cringe with fear and terror.


Williams could indeed beat Skelton and harrison. It would be a 50-50 with hide IMO. He could do well against people like Brewster and Holyfield and Tyson but only because they are so poor now. He definately shouldn't retire but he's not real world level. Any top fighter will beat him. Apart form the Tyson win, his carrerr was a joke and he was never going to trouble Vitali. There are worse fighters out there than Williams.

Yes, and one of them has a world title too....

An interesting question is who had the more 'live' opponent, Cotto or Hatton?

I would say Donovan Bailey came with far more ambition than Oliveira, as did Pinto than Mike Stewart.

Cotto is being matched the way a genuine world class prospect should be matched, Ricky is the classic protected fighter. There are seeming hundreds of precedents for this career formula.

No way on earth will Tszyu fight Hatton next year.

By the way did anyone notice Ricky was pissed in the interview after the Klit-Williams fight? Cracked me up.

donovcan baley shit boxer mate but fornicate he is fast.

ran round that ring like errrr hundred metres man

sorry just jishin, sorry i dont think either oppoenent was particularly live but I would go with Oliveria to be honest just.

Bailey has now lost 4 of his last 7 and the 3 victories come over oppoenets with a combined record of somink like 70 wins 300 plus losses and 12 draw or somink. Piss poor.

J, without wishing to be antagonistic, mate, I think that Bailey is a far, far more dangerous opponent than Oliveira. Just for the facts that he\'s not known to have a history of struggling to make the weight, isn\'t fourteen thousand years old, and is known to hit like a real motherfucker. I\'ve got him doing Bollilo Gonzalez in a round somewhere on tape; he nearly decapitates him.

I don\'t think Oliveira was a bad opponent, but (just my opinion) Ricky didn\'t do anything that wasn\'t expected of him. I wonder if Frankie would have let him off the leash against a big puncher like Bailey in Hatton\'s twenty-oddth fight...

I was impressed with the way Hatton fought but i think Oliveira was just there to survive, all week he was talking up Hatton and he and his camp were saying Hatton needed to take in a baseball bat to stop him etc all lead me to believe he was happy just to last the distance, which it turned out he was but didn't even make it that far.

Hatton said something interesting today in one of the papers "I have fought the best out there apart from the world champions", rubbish IMO Philips and Oliveira were both ancient and Tackie had been systematically taken apart by every world class operator he had faced to that point.

As for the comparisons, Hatton and Cotto looked a class apart for me, i like Ricky as a person and a fighter but seriously Cotto was taking apart a seasoned puncher in Randall Bailey who at 30 was no where near finished and Cotto destroyed him. Plus Cotto has only had half as many fights...he has fought the better opposition and for me beats Hatton as does Tszyu...but still i'd be rooting for Ricky should any of the big fights materialise.

Ben Keilty wrote:When has Tszyu ever avioded a good fighter he is the only guy in boxing today that fights the best in his division.

De La Hoya has always fought the best as well to be fair.

And lost most times as well.... Seriously though i agree with you Joe, Trinidad as well has never ducked a challenge.

I've always wondered what the outcome would have been if Shane Moseley had stopped off at Light-Welterweight and fought Tzsyu.

I thought the Hatton - Oliviera 'fight' was a disgrace. I felt sick when I first saw the ExCel nearly bursting with people. That's what it must have been like in London back in the day when there was beheadings in the street and people would turn out in droves to watch. That's all this fight was: an execution, a beating. How can the public be so cruel?

From the off it was apparent Ray had no strength and was focussed on making the distance. He's not even a big puncher so didn't even have a puncher's chance. Randall Bailey did have that, at least, and actually made Cotto grimace in the first with a big right hand. Bailey would have been a better opponent for Hatton, he brings one-punch power and came to fight Cotto - who clinically dismantled him, making him 'quit' at the end. Hatton has never faced a dangerous puncher because he himself knows the score. Styles make fights.

The commentary actually made me leave the room and I missed two of the rounds. The way Hatton was jumping straight in without a thought in the world landing vicious punches on, essentially, a 'dead' body was truly sickening. When Adam Smith made the comment ' this is a guy who beat Vivian Harris, what message does this send?' - or something along those lines, I literally could not take it anymore and had to focus attention elsewhere. Thank goodness Ray Oliviera seemed to be enjoying himself chatting away at the post-fight party.

KOJOE90 wrote:I've always wondered what the outcome would have been if Shane Moseley had stopped off at Light-Welterweight and fought Tzsyu.

Hell yeah that would be a fight of the year.

I think Mosley would have done a real number of Tszyu.

Mosley would have been at his very best at LWelter, he would have been all over Tszyu, and I don't think Tszyu would have hit hard enough to put him down.

I say Hatton picks the right boxers 2 go up against. Ray was past his best and having 2 come down in weight is all about a pay day at this point. At best Ray was looking 2 go the distance.

Hatton is fun 2 watch but until he beats a young prime top boxer or champ I won't join his parade. Fighting against overmatched faded boxers won't make him anymore ready 4 the likes of Cotto Prettyboy or Tszyu.

Gatti I'd even favor 2 beat him but his best chance would B against Gatti. 2 me it all depends on how Gatti wants 2 fight. Going 2 war is what everyone wants 2 see, yet I'm not sure if Gatti would B wise fighting a Ward style brawl here.

Gatti's power would either take him out or he'd have 2 box mixing it up in order 2 beat-off Hatton's swarming energy filled assults.

Tszyu super human power KO's Hatton as do Cotto's all around boxing skills would break him down. Prettyboy, perhaps would speed whip Hatton 4 a distance win on 2 many clean lead and counter shots would bust up Hattons face or prompt a ref 2 jump in.

Not 2 leave out Harris, V-man has put it together and more then ever after going overseas 4 solid wins will B much tougher 2 beat now. Harris I feel would stop Hatton.

Hey Hitman Hatton, its about time 2 come here (USA) 4 a big fight 2. Heck I'll at least give Prince Hamed credit 4 bringing his broadway show 2 the states 4 what was a fun off balanced power punching knockdowns nite against Kelley. Perhaps it will take a fight like that 2 show what the Hitman is truly made of....
Test please~

Manos de Oro wrote:I thought the Hatton - Oliviera 'fight' was a disgrace. I felt sick when I first saw the ExCel nearly bursting with people. That's what it must have been like in London back in the day when there was beheadings in the street and people would turn out in droves to watch. That's all this fight was: an execution, a beating. How can the public be so cruel?

From the off it was apparent Ray had no strength and was focussed on making the distance. He's not even a big puncher so didn't even have a puncher's chance. Randall Bailey did have that, at least, and actually made Cotto grimace in the first with a big right hand. Bailey would have been a better opponent for Hatton, he brings one-punch power and came to fight Cotto - who clinically dismantled him, making him 'quit' at the end. Hatton has never faced a dangerous puncher because he himself knows the score. Styles make fights.

The commentary actually made me leave the room and I missed two of the rounds. The way Hatton was jumping straight in without a thought in the world landing vicious punches on, essentially, a 'dead' body was truly sickening. When Adam Smith made the comment ' this is a guy who beat Vivian Harris, what message does this send?' - or something along those lines, I literally could not take it anymore and had to focus attention elsewhere. Thank goodness Ray Oliviera seemed to be enjoying himself chatting away at the post-fight party.

Agreed completely. It just puts an even worst taste in the mouth to hear people coming on the boards praising Hatton and saying that that fight actually meant something.

A superb post. Good lad.

I really want to give Adam Smith a hard right hand. he has such a punchable face.

Soulsummerz wrote:I say Hatton picks the right boxers 2 go up against. Ray was past his best and having 2 come down in weight is all about a pay day at this point. At best Ray was looking 2 go the distance.

Hatton is fun 2 watch but until he beats a young prime top boxer or champ I won't join his parade. Fighting against overmatched faded boxers won't make him anymore ready 4 the likes of Cotto Prettyboy or Tszyu.

Gatti I'd even favor 2 beat him but his best chance would B against Gatti. 2 me it all depends on how Gatti wants 2 fight. Going 2 war is what everyone wants 2 see, yet I'm not sure if Gatti would B wise fighting a Ward style brawl here.

Gatti's power would either take him out or he'd have 2 box mixing it up in order 2 beat-off Hatton's swarming energy filled assults.

Tszyu super human power KO's Hatton as do Cotto's all around boxing skills would break him down. Prettyboy, perhaps would speed whip Hatton 4 a distance win on 2 many clean lead and counter shots would bust up Hattons face or prompt a ref 2 jump in.

Not 2 leave out Harris, V-man has put it together and more then ever after going overseas 4 solid wins will B much tougher 2 beat now. Harris I feel would stop Hatton.

Hey Hitman Hatton, its about time 2 come here (USA) 4 a big fight 2. Heck I'll at least give Prince Hamed credit 4 bringing his broadway show 2 the states 4 what was a fun off balanced power punching knockdowns nite against Kelley. Perhaps it will take a fight like that 2 show what the Hitman is truly made of....
Test please~

Very good post.

Welcome to the boards.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think Mosley would have done a real number of Tszyu.

Mosley would have been at his very best at LWelter, he would have been all over Tszyu, and I don't think Tszyu would have hit hard enough to put him down.

Really? I'd definitely have gone for Tszyu. I think that Mosley might well have made most of the running, but I think at some point he'd be hit with a big right hand. Although Mosley does have an excellent chin, he's hardly invulnerable. One thing about Tszyu, if he manages to hurt a guy it's game over, he's one hell of a finisher.

The only guy to ever beat him up was Vernon forrest, and Forrest is now competing at light middle, well if he ever fights again, and was a HUGE welterweight.

At light Welter, Mosley would have been incredibly quick, would have taken a shot and would have hit immensely hard, losing his speed is what has killed his style, he relies on single shots now, but at lightweight he was a human buzzsaw.

Stylistically it would have been a nightmare for Tszyu, good as he is, I think Mosley would have overwhelmed him with volume, speed and fleetness of foot.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The only guy to ever beat him up was Vernon forrest, and Forrest is now competing at light middle, well if he ever fights again, and was a HUGE welterweight.

At light Welter, Mosley would have been incredibly quick, would have taken a shot and would have hit immensely hard, losing his speed is what has killed his style, he relies on single shots now, but at lightweight he was a human buzzsaw.

Stylistically it would have been a nightmare for Tszyu, good as he is, I think Mosley would have overwhelmed him with volume, speed and fleetness of foot.

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Tszyu absollutly flogged Forrest in the Amature championships in Australia in the early ninties and although they where both about 19-20 at the time it was still a very convincing win. Also Forrest beat Mosley as an Amature so i don't think it would be easy for Mosley to beat Tszyu.

Basicly Zoo takes world class fighters Zab, Mitchell ect and demolishes them Hatton takes overweight over the hill, or underweight never even near the hill fighters, and even though he looks good he don't excatrly come and put them away pronto, does he

How would Zoo go against Ray

Ben Keilty wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The only guy to ever beat him up was Vernon forrest, and Forrest is now competing at light middle, well if he ever fights again, and was a HUGE welterweight.

At light Welter, Mosley would have been incredibly quick, would have taken a shot and would have hit immensely hard, losing his speed is what has killed his style, he relies on single shots now, but at lightweight he was a human buzzsaw.

Stylistically it would have been a nightmare for Tszyu, good as he is, I think Mosley would have overwhelmed him with volume, speed and fleetness of foot.

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Tszyu absollutly flogged Forrest in the Amature championships in Australia in the early ninties and although they where both about 19-20 at the time it was still a very convincing win. Also Forrest beat Mosley as an Amature so i don't think it would be easy for Mosley to beat Tszyu.

I don't think that has much bearing on things, amateurs is a whole different ball game. Henry Tillman beat Tyson as an amateur......

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The only guy to ever beat him up was Vernon forrest, and Forrest is now competing at light middle, well if he ever fights again, and was a HUGE welterweight.

At light Welter, Mosley would have been incredibly quick, would have taken a shot and would have hit immensely hard, losing his speed is what has killed his style, he relies on single shots now, but at lightweight he was a human buzzsaw.

Stylistically it would have been a nightmare for Tszyu, good as he is, I think Mosley would have overwhelmed him with volume, speed and fleetness of foot.

Well, fair enough then. I just think that at some stage during the fight, Mosley would get tagged with one, and it'd be a real struggle from that point onwards.

For me this really highlights what the multitude of titles mean for the sport. In any other era, it would have been much more probable that two great fighters like this would have met at some point. I think we all missed out on something special.

Yes, very true. With all the belt hopping these days, we end up missing out on a lot of fights.

This is why DLH deserves a lot of respect in my book, although he didn't exactly clean out the divisions he was in, certainly not as he moved up in weight, he actively looked for the best fights out there.

It amazes me when people call Oscar a chicken, he's faced Mosley, Quartey, Leija, Vargas, Trinidad and now Hopkins, hardly the mark of a coward.

Imagine, there was a time when Mosley and Tszyu would both have been small welterweights and would have been fighting in the same division.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think Mosley would have done a real number of Tszyu.

Mosley would have been at his very best at LWelter, he would have been all over Tszyu, and I don't think Tszyu would have hit hard enough to put him down.

I have to agree.

Mosley was a much more effective fighter at the lighter weights than the pumped up slower fighter he has become.

His speed and volume of shots would be too much for Tszyu, although Mosley would have to watch out for the right hand of course he had the chin and reflexes to cope with it I feel.