BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 04:49

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Nov 2019, 20:32
Nice try, but not in the case of Ali vs Spinks. At least Norris was a real good fighter. Spinks never was.

Spinks was a Gold Medal Olympian. Lack of discipline meant he didn't get the best out of himself as a Professional, but he had talent.

Never said he didn't have talent. He just wasn't very good as a HW.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 15:11

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 04:49

Spinks was a Gold Medal Olympian. Lack of discipline meant he didn't get the best out of himself as a Professional, but he had talent.

Never said he didn't have talent. He just wasn't very good as a HW.

Right. A lot of which was owed to his lack of discipline. Like the way he just kinda half assed his training and kept doing dumb sh*t following all the money he made from the Ali fights.

I'm not saying he was or was capable of being an ATG or anything, but I think he could've been better than his record suggests if he'd kept his head on straight.

Spinks was a solid fighter. After a while he was just a name looking for a paycheck. Which happens to a lot of fighters somewhere along the way.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 16:04

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 15:11
Never said he didn't have talent. He just wasn't very good as a HW.

Right. A lot of which was owed to his lack of discipline. Like the way he just kinda half assed his training and kept doing dumb sh*t following all the money he made from the Ali fights.

I'm not saying he was or was capable of being an ATG or anything, but I think he could've been better than his record suggests if he'd kept his head on straight.

Spinks was a solid fighter. After a while he was just a name looking for a paycheck. Which happens to a lot of fighters somewhere along the way.

same can be said for a lot of fighters from history. He'd had made a very good CW.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 16:24

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 16:04

Right. A lot of which was owed to his lack of discipline. Like the way he just kinda half assed his training and kept doing dumb sh*t following all the money he made from the Ali fights.

I'm not saying he was or was capable of being an ATG or anything, but I think he could've been better than his record suggests if he'd kept his head on straight.

Spinks was a solid fighter. After a while he was just a name looking for a paycheck. Which happens to a lot of fighters somewhere along the way.

same can be said for a lot of fighters from history. He'd had made a very good CW.

Leon did try the CW division and didn't do well. I agree with Gil, that he could have been a hell of a lot better if he didn't party like John Belushi. Leon's clubbing and imbibing were legendary.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2020, 12:04

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2020, 16:24

same can be said for a lot of fighters from history. He'd had made a very good CW.

Leon did try the CW division and didn't do well.

Yes, he took a solid beating from DeLeon. Still, that whipping was nothing compared to the brutal beatdown he suffered at the hands of Qawi. The Qawi fight ranks as one of the worst beatings I have seen, career ending stuff really.

After Spinks II.

Fighting with Holmes and Berbick after 2 years was nonsensical and it probably affected his health worse, he shouldn't have done that, even for money.

hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2020, 07:30

Tony1244 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2020, 12:04

Leon did try the CW division and didn't do well.

Yes, he took a solid beating from DeLeon. Still, that whipping was nothing compared to the brutal beatdown he suffered at the hands of Qawi. The Qawi fight ranks as one of the worst beatings I have seen, career ending stuff really.

His only 'win' of note was an all-time robbery over Burnett. Don't recall the Deleon fight.

Retiring at any time between The Thrilla in Manila (49-2) and the Earnie Shavers fight (55-2) would have been ideal.

In terms of legacy, nothing he did after the Thrilla added to his legend and reputation, but at least up to Shavers it added to his "win column" without seemingly impacting on his health.

The last 4 fights of his career damaged his win-loss record, and very probably contributed to the health problems he suffered in later life.

After Spinks 2. Winning the heavyweight championship for a 3rd time is one of his greatest accomplishments and a pretty big contributor to what makes him the greatest. . . Sure he’d STILL be considered the greatest if he pulled the plug a few years earlier, but winning that belt a 3rd time REALLY sealed the deal

After Shavers. His long time personal physician and cornerman Ferdie Pacheco left afterwards and he went 1-3 in his last four fights in which in hist last two he had clearly Parkinson and losing to a guy that had 7 professional fights did his legacy no good.

If he retired after Shavers he would have been 55-2 with both defeats avenged in trilogies, never lost the championship in the ring and basically fought every top contender of the 60s and 70s. Larry Holmes wasn’t considered a serious contender until his win over Shavers in early 78.

For his sake, after Zaire. The damage to him in Zaire and afterward was horrible.

I would go little further and say after the 3rd Frazier fight. Nothing to prove after that fight.

I've always said after the Thriller he had nothing else to gain and much to lose.

Seamus wrote: ↑11 Oct 2019, 10:07 After Leon II. Go out a winner.

Yeh, he really didn't need to fight Holmes.

After the third fight with Ken Norton at Yankee Stadium in NYC in 1976 for sure.