BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:37

Ricky wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:08 So they signed with a promoter that regularly run cross-promotions, rather than the closed-shop? Fighters that sign with Haymon are duckers.

Which big name welterweights can Top Rank do cross-promotional bouts with?

PBC always allow their lesser boxers fight on other networks.

Never their stars.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 17:56

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:37
Which big name welterweights can Top Rank do cross-promotional bouts with?

PBC always allow their lesser boxers fight on other networks.

Never their stars.

That’s precisely what I stated earlier on in this thread, but people are disbelievers.

Perhaps they’ll accept your opinion, since they clearly don’t trust mine, even though we’re saying precisely the same thing.

Crawford knew for certain that renewing his contract with Top Rank would very likely scupper potential bouts between himself and the big-name PBC stars, but he did it anyway, because he wanted the $3m per fight guarantee.

He deserves no sympathy for his plight, because he made a premeditated decision to place himself in this predicament.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:48

Ricky wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:08

So they signed with a promoter that regularly run cross-promotions, rather than the closed-shop? Fighters that sign with Haymon are duckers.

I didnt call anyone a ducker. I just explained reality. Reality is 147 and 154 are owned by pbc and the usually keep fights in house. He knew that, i know that, you know that

Don't sign for a closed shop promotion, it's simple. These guys are duckers, they don't need tonface the best, they get to evaluate the pbc roster then sign if they fancy the job.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 12:16

Bandog wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 07:42

Well, someone is lying then. Angel is standing right next to him. Here is the video where Danny said they never offered him nothing, never got on the phone with them even.

Say what? You had been banging on before about how they did make him an offer, but how it was less than Khan got. Now that didn't even happen? Which one is it?

That is why I posted this video. Like Garcia says in the video, that is the way boxing politics works sometimes. Someone puts it out in the media (my guess is Arum) about an offer they made that was turned down, and people eat it up. I was guilty for believing what Top Rank claimed. Who is lying? My guess is Arum - he has had decades of practice.

I read another article that stated There was an offer, presented by Moretti during a phone call with Angel: $3 million guaranteed plus upside of the pay-per-view revenue. They never heard back from team Garcia.

The truth lies where you want it to I guess.

Ricky wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 23:29

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 15:48

I didnt call anyone a ducker. I just explained reality. Reality is 147 and 154 are owned by pbc and the usually keep fights in house. He knew that, i know that, you know that

Don't sign for a closed shop promotion, it's simple. These guys are duckers, they don't need tonface the best, they get to evaluate the pbc roster then sign if they fancy the job.

So are you seriously suggesting that all the big-name welterweights decided to sign-up with the PBC in order to duck Terence Crawford?

Let’s not forget that on the 6th September 2018, Terence Crawford willingly chose to renew his contract with Top Rank, knowing full-well that this would very likely rule out the possibility of bouts between himself and any of the PBC guys until August 2025.

Everybody knew the consequences of Crawford’s actions. The media spoke about it and it was also discussed at length on this forum.

So are we supposed to suddenly pretend that this didn’t really happen and that Crawford simply made an innocent mistake about a situation he couldn't have possibly anticipated?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 06:19

Ricky wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 23:29 Don't sign for a closed shop promotion, it's simple. These guys are duckers, they don't need tonface the best, they get to evaluate the pbc roster then sign if they fancy the job.

So are you seriously suggesting that all the big-name welterweights decided to sign-up with the PBC in order to duck Terence Crawford?

Let’s not forget that on the 6th September 2018, Terence Crawford willingly chose to renew his contract with Top Rank, knowing full-well that this would very likely rule out the possibility of bouts between himself and any of the PBC guys until August 2025.

Everybody knew the consequences of Crawford’s actions. The media spoke about it and it was also discussed at length on this forum.

So are we supposed to suddenly pretend that this didn’t really happen and that Crawford simply made an innocent mistake about a situation he couldn't have possibly anticipated?

Let’s not forget, PBC is not a promotion, it’s a management company. Most events are promoted by TGB or Mayweather Promotions. Most boxers are not signed up by any promoter, what PBC allows them to do is create their own promotions. We’ve seen Man Down Promotions, Mikey Garcia Promotions, BombzSquad Promotions, the Charlo’s have their own, and so on.

PBC, just like MTK put on events, featuring boxing that are managed by them.

Plenty of MTK guys have signed promoters don’t they? Just the PBC guys are self-promoted.

The PBC guys are not tied down either like Crawford is with ESPN. I highly doubt any of the PBC guys are signed with FOX or Showtime, unless we’ve been told.

Gervonta always seems to fight on Showtime. Wilder was signed to Showtime at some point.

Realistically, if the PBC guys want to fight Crawford, they bloody can. The only thing Ellerbe says is, ‘they have business to take care of in-house’.. whilst some are fighting each other, most are not.

Look at Danny Garcia.. has a world title fight, then fights Brandon Rios, which gets him another title shot, loses that, then fights Granados, which was (supposed to) get him a PPV fight with Spence. Had Garcia ever made $3 for 1 fight before?

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 09:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 06:19
So are you seriously suggesting that all the big-name welterweights decided to sign-up with the PBC in order to duck Terence Crawford?

Let’s not forget that on the 6th September 2018, Terence Crawford willingly chose to renew his contract with Top Rank, knowing full-well that this would very likely rule out the possibility of bouts between himself and any of the PBC guys until August 2025.

Everybody knew the consequences of Crawford’s actions. The media spoke about it and it was also discussed at length on this forum.

So are we supposed to suddenly pretend that this didn’t really happen and that Crawford simply made an innocent mistake about a situation he couldn't have possibly anticipated?

Let’s not forget, PBC is not a promotion, it’s a management company. Most events are promoted by TGB or Mayweather Promotions. Most boxers are not signed up by any promoter, what PBC allows them to do is create their own promotions. We’ve seen Man Down Promotions, Mikey Garcia Promotions, BombzSquad Promotions, the Charlo’s have their own, and so on.

PBC, just like MTK put on events, featuring boxing that are managed by them.

Plenty of MTK guys have signed promoters don’t they? Just the PBC guys are self-promoted.

The PBC guys are not tied down either like Crawford is with ESPN. I highly doubt any of the PBC guys are signed with FOX or Showtime, unless we’ve been told.

Gervonta always seems to fight on Showtime. Wilder was signed to Showtime at some point.

Realistically, if the PBC guys want to fight Crawford, they bloody can. The only thing Ellerbe says is, ‘they have business to take care of in-house’.. whilst some are fighting each other, most are not.

Look at Danny Garcia.. has a world title fight, then fights Brandon Rios, which gets him another title shot, loses that, then fights Granados, which was (supposed to) get him a PPV fight with Spence. Had Garcia ever made $3 for 1 fight before?

The PBC is the brand name for a television series (created by Haymon Sports) covering boxing events that are broadcast on Fox and Showtime.

Bouts featured within the PBC Series are promoted by licensed promoters, with each bout staged in accordance with applicable regulatory rules and regulations.

Al Haymon is the manager and advisor for the fighters that compete on this TV show.

The fighters themselves that appear on the PBC fight cards are generally self-promoted and network free agents.

The most popular fighters (i.e. those that generate a lot of revenue) are usually compelled to compete exclusively on their home network (even if there is no contractual obligation to do so), due to Fox and Showtime attempting to maximise audience figures.

It is not unusual for boxing content providers, such as Top Rank, Matchroom, Queensberry Promotions, GBP and those affiliated with the PBC, to prefer to stage in-house bouts that are featured on their respective home networks (i.e. ESPN/BT, Sky/DAZN or Fox/Showtime), rather than staging tricky to negotiate fights that are cross-promotional/cross-network in nature.

Bob Arum regularly speaks to the media and sometimes his claims are proven to be untrue. And Al Haymon never speaks to the media, so we never receive his version of events.

Top Rank and ESPN are the rivals of the PBC (including Showtime & Fox).

None of the above is new. It’s been the political landscape since 2015.

On the 6th September 2018, Terence Crawford willingly chose to renew his contract with Top Rank, knowing full-well that this would very likely rule out the possibility of bouts between himself and any of the PBC guys until August 2025.

Everybody knew the consequences of Crawford’s actions when he renewed his contract with Top Rank. The media spoke about it in great detail and the same subject matter was also discussed at length on this forum.

It’s a simple fact of life that Top Rank cannot deliver big fights for Terence Crawford, with the American’s audience viewing figures and PPV buy-rates considered unimpressive.

He is not a commercially “big” enough name to justify the staging of cross-promotional/cross-network bouts between himself and the guys affiliated with the PBC. He’s simply not as popular as the likes of Lewis-Tyson or Mayweather-Pacquiao.

The PBC don’t need Crawford. They are already capable of staging commercially “big” fights between their own in-house stable of fighters that generate a lot of revenue, without having to split the proverbial pot with ESPN, Top Rank or somehow dig deep into their pockets to fulfil Crawford’s commercially unviable $3m purse guarantee.

Let's not forget that Bob Arum recently demanded a 50-50 split for the purses, promotion & network coverage in order to stage a potential Crawford-Spence Jr. fight, despite the fact that Bud’s commercial worth, in terms of audience figures, PPV buys, revenue generation, sporting accomplishments at 147lbs, is nowhere near Errol’s. It’s not even close. So Top Rank are pricing themselves out of big fights.

The vast majority of what I’ve written isn’t an opinion piece, these are well-documented issues.

And finally, to be fair, if you take a look at the PBC's stable of welterweights, Al Haymon's matchmakers have orchestrated lots of decent bouts. For instance:

• Adrien Broner fought: Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Shawn Porter, Mikey Garcia, Jessie Vargas and Manny Pacquiao
• Andre Berto fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Victor Ortiz, Shawn Porter and Devon Alexander
• Luis Collazo fought: Andre Berto, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Keith Thurman and Samuel Vargas
• Danny Garcia fought: Robert Guerrero, Amir Khan, Paulie Malignaggi, Lamont Peterson, Keith Thurman, Brandon Rios, Shawn Porter and might face Mikey Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next
• Robert Guerrero fought: Andre Berto, Danny Garcia, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Keith Thurman, Omar Figueroa Jr.
• Amir Khan fought: Luis Collazo, Danny Garcia, Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz, Lamont Peterson and Samuel Vargas, coupled with the fact that he was able to face pound-for-pound stars from other stables, such as Canelo and Terence Crawford
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. fought: Andre Berto, Robert Guerrero, Marcos Maidana and Victor Ortiz.
• Josesito Lopez fought: Andre Berto, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz and Keith Thurman
• Paulie Malignaggi fought: Adrien Broner, Danny Garcia, Amir Khan and Shawn Porter.
• Marcos Maidana fought: Adrien Broner, Amir Khan, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez and Victor Ortiz.
• Victor Ortiz fought: Andre Berto, Luis Collazo, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Marcos Maidana, Lamont Peterson and Devon Alexander
• Lamont Peterson fought: Danny Garcia, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz and Errol Spence Jr
• Shawn Porter fought: Adrien Broner, Andre Berto, Keith Thurman, Devon Alexander, Paulie Malignaggi, Danny Garcia and Errol Spence Jr.
• Keith Thurman fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia, Josesito Lopez and will be facing Manny Pacquiao next
• Errol Spence Jr. fought: Lamont Peterson, Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter.
• Manny Pacquiao fought: Adrien Broner and Keith Thurman.
• Mikey Garcia fought: Adrien Broner, Errol Spence Jr. and is rumoured to be facing either Danny Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next

People often forget that Al Haymon was involved in all these bouts, with many of them staged under the PBC banner.

God Al Haymon

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 11:14
It’s a simple fact of life that Top Rank cannot deliver big fights for Terence Crawford, with the American’s audience viewing figures and PPV buy-rates considered unimpressive.

He is not a commercially “big” enough name to justify the staging of cross-promotional/cross-network bouts between himself and the guys affiliated with the PBC. He’s simply not as popular as the likes of Lewis-Tyson or Mayweather-Pacquiao.

And finally, to be fair, if you take a look at the PBC's stable of welterweights, Al Haymon's matchmakers have orchestrated lots of decent bouts. For instance:

• Adrien Broner fought: Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Shawn Porter, Mikey Garcia, Jessie Vargas and Manny Pacquiao
• Andre Berto fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Victor Ortiz, Shawn Porter and Devon Alexander
• Luis Collazo fought: Andre Berto, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Keith Thurman and Samuel Vargas
• Danny Garcia fought: Robert Guerrero, Amir Khan, Paulie Malignaggi, Lamont Peterson, Keith Thurman, Brandon Rios, Shawn Porter and might face Mikey Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next
• Robert Guerrero fought: Andre Berto, Danny Garcia, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Keith Thurman, Omar Figueroa Jr.
• Amir Khan fought: Luis Collazo, Danny Garcia, Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz, Lamont Peterson and Samuel Vargas, coupled with the fact that he was able to face pound-for-pound stars from other stables, such as Canelo and Terence Crawford
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. fought: Andre Berto, Robert Guerrero, Marcos Maidana and Victor Ortiz.
• Josesito Lopez fought: Andre Berto, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz and Keith Thurman
• Paulie Malignaggi fought: Adrien Broner, Danny Garcia, Amir Khan and Shawn Porter.
• Marcos Maidana fought: Adrien Broner, Amir Khan, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez and Victor Ortiz.
• Victor Ortiz fought: Andre Berto, Luis Collazo, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Marcos Maidana, Lamont Peterson and Devon Alexander
• Lamont Peterson fought: Danny Garcia, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz and Errol Spence Jr
• Shawn Porter fought: Adrien Broner, Andre Berto, Keith Thurman, Devon Alexander, Paulie Malignaggi, Danny Garcia and Errol Spence Jr.
• Keith Thurman fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia, Josesito Lopez and will be facing Manny Pacquiao next
• Errol Spence Jr. fought: Lamont Peterson, Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter.
• Manny Pacquiao fought: Adrien Broner and Keith Thurman.
• Mikey Garcia fought: Adrien Broner, Errol Spence Jr. and is rumoured to be facing either Danny Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next

People often forget that Al Haymon was involved in all these bouts, with many of them staged under the PBC banner.

Crawford was one of maybe 2-3 boxers that were doing over 1m views on HBO before moving over to ESPN. On regular ESPN (because figures are not known for the app), Crawford has again done good numbers. Sometimes you just need a good dance partner for a PPV fight.

Spence did crap numbers for Showtime when on regular channel. He needed Mikey Garcia to do 400k buys on PPV. There has been no word on the Spence-Porter figures.. wonder why.

Some of them fights took place before PBC was formed. I agree though, Haymon was involved in most of not all via an advisor role.

Example: Khan vs. Garcia.
Golden Boy promoted this event, Garcia was with Golden Boy I believe and Khan has his own promotion. I’m not sure Haymon was his advisor at the time. Would need to look that up.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 12:26

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 11:14
It’s a simple fact of life that Top Rank cannot deliver big fights for Terence Crawford, with the American’s audience viewing figures and PPV buy-rates considered unimpressive.

He is not a commercially “big” enough name to justify the staging of cross-promotional/cross-network bouts between himself and the guys affiliated with the PBC. He’s simply not as popular as the likes of Lewis-Tyson or Mayweather-Pacquiao.

And finally, to be fair, if you take a look at the PBC's stable of welterweights, Al Haymon's matchmakers have orchestrated lots of decent bouts. For instance:

• Adrien Broner fought: Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Shawn Porter, Mikey Garcia, Jessie Vargas and Manny Pacquiao
• Andre Berto fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Victor Ortiz, Shawn Porter and Devon Alexander
• Luis Collazo fought: Andre Berto, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Keith Thurman and Samuel Vargas
• Danny Garcia fought: Robert Guerrero, Amir Khan, Paulie Malignaggi, Lamont Peterson, Keith Thurman, Brandon Rios, Shawn Porter and might face Mikey Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next
• Robert Guerrero fought: Andre Berto, Danny Garcia, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Keith Thurman, Omar Figueroa Jr.
• Amir Khan fought: Luis Collazo, Danny Garcia, Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz, Lamont Peterson and Samuel Vargas, coupled with the fact that he was able to face pound-for-pound stars from other stables, such as Canelo and Terence Crawford
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. fought: Andre Berto, Robert Guerrero, Marcos Maidana and Victor Ortiz.
• Josesito Lopez fought: Andre Berto, Marcos Maidana, Victor Ortiz and Keith Thurman
• Paulie Malignaggi fought: Adrien Broner, Danny Garcia, Amir Khan and Shawn Porter.
• Marcos Maidana fought: Adrien Broner, Amir Khan, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez and Victor Ortiz.
• Victor Ortiz fought: Andre Berto, Luis Collazo, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Josesito Lopez, Marcos Maidana, Lamont Peterson and Devon Alexander
• Lamont Peterson fought: Danny Garcia, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz and Errol Spence Jr
• Shawn Porter fought: Adrien Broner, Andre Berto, Keith Thurman, Devon Alexander, Paulie Malignaggi, Danny Garcia and Errol Spence Jr.
• Keith Thurman fought: Luis Collazo, Robert Guerrero, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia, Josesito Lopez and will be facing Manny Pacquiao next
• Errol Spence Jr. fought: Lamont Peterson, Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter.
• Manny Pacquiao fought: Adrien Broner and Keith Thurman.
• Mikey Garcia fought: Adrien Broner, Errol Spence Jr. and is rumoured to be facing either Danny Garcia or Manny Pacquiao next

People often forget that Al Haymon was involved in all these bouts, with many of them staged under the PBC banner.

Crawford was one of maybe 2-3 boxers that were doing over 1m views on HBO before moving over to ESPN. On regular ESPN (because figures are not known for the app), Crawford has again done good numbers. Sometimes you just need a good dance partner for a PPV fight.

Spence did crap numbers for Showtime when on regular channel. He needed Mikey Garcia to do 400k buys on PPV. There has been no word on the Spence-Porter figures.. wonder why.

Some of them fights took place before PBC was formed. I agree though, Haymon was involved in most of not all via an advisor role.

Example: Khan vs. Garcia.
Golden Boy promoted this event, Garcia was with Golden Boy I believe and Khan has his own promotion. I’m not sure Haymon was his advisor at the time. Would need to look that up.

You do know that Al Haymon and Richard Schaeffer essentially ran GBP, whilst Oscar De La Hoya was merely a figurehead dealing with personal issues?

There was a court case that explained this relationship, which led to GBP being compensated and Haymon buying out the contracts of most Golden Boy fighters. Schaeffer wasn't allowed to promote for more than a year, as a direct result of this lawsuit.

People forget that GBP and Haymon had an incredibly close relationship with each other, until De La Hoya fired Schaeffer.

In terms of the fights I listed, Al Haymon worked with both the TV networks and fighters, so his role was more than merely advisory, He didn't promote the events though, hence the Main Events, GBP and Top Rank Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act lawsuits.

Check a handful of them if you want. I must have listed about 100 fights and I'm happy to debate Haymon's involvement in each of them.

WBO welterweight world champion Terence "Bud" Crawford is rejecting the talk of being on the "wrong side of the street" when it comes to securing fights with boxers who compete under the Premier Boxing Champions banner.

ESPN and PBC are expected to come together to stage a joint pay-per-view event between Deontay Wilder (under PBC) and Tyson Fury (under ESPN) - so Crawford sees no reason as to why certain fight can't be made for him with the PBC welterweights.

"Well, Deontay Wilder is about to fight Tyson Fury and you never hear about any 'sides of the street.' It's just something people say when it comes to Terence Crawford. You don't hear 'wrong side of the street' with any other fighter but Terence Crawford. Why do all these other fights get made, but when it's Terence Crawford, it's about the 'wrong side of the street?,'" Crawford said.

Source

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 11:11 WBO welterweight world champion Terence "Bud" Crawford is rejecting the talk of being on the "wrong side of the street" when it comes to securing fights with boxers who compete under the Premier Boxing Champions banner.

ESPN and PBC are expected to come together to stage a joint pay-per-view event between Deontay Wilder (under PBC) and Tyson Fury (under ESPN) - so Crawford sees no reason as to why certain fight can't be made for him with the PBC welterweights.

"Well, Deontay Wilder is about to fight Tyson Fury and you never hear about any 'sides of the street.' It's just something people say when it comes to Terence Crawford. You don't hear 'wrong side of the street' with any other fighter but Terence Crawford. Why do all these other fights get made, but when it's Terence Crawford, it's about the 'wrong side of the street?,'" Crawford said.

Source

And yet a few months ago, Crawford was complaining about boxing politics during his appearance on the Joe Rogan show.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 17:16

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 11:11 WBO welterweight world champion Terence "Bud" Crawford is rejecting the talk of being on the "wrong side of the street" when it comes to securing fights with boxers who compete under the Premier Boxing Champions banner.

ESPN and PBC are expected to come together to stage a joint pay-per-view event between Deontay Wilder (under PBC) and Tyson Fury (under ESPN) - so Crawford sees no reason as to why certain fight can't be made for him with the PBC welterweights.

"Well, Deontay Wilder is about to fight Tyson Fury and you never hear about any 'sides of the street.' It's just something people say when it comes to Terence Crawford. You don't hear 'wrong side of the street' with any other fighter but Terence Crawford. Why do all these other fights get made, but when it's Terence Crawford, it's about the 'wrong side of the street?,'" Crawford said.

Source

And yet a few months ago, Crawford was complaining about boxing politics during his appearance on the Joe Rogan show.

Why he re-upped is beyond me. I had hopes as his contract was coming to an end. He is bewildering to me in this regard.

If he never gets the biggest fights, and never becomes the star he thinks he should. He can thank himself and his business savvy for that.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 17:19 If he never gets the biggest fights, and never becomes the star he thinks he should. He can thank himself and his business savvy for that.

Yup. The best promoting Bob ever did was call him a "once in generation" fighter. Else he's on the back burner and I guess happy about it

He and Spence are each other's biggest opponents, it's not just Crawford whose legacy would be not what it could've. If they both want each other they should try to make it happen as best as they can

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 17:21 He and Spence are each other's biggest opponents, it's not just Crawford whose legacy would be not what it could've. If they both want each other they should try to make it happen as best as they can

We won't know until we see Spence in the ring again if he's still the same Spence.

Big money fights for wilder are against fury and joshua so cross promotion makes sense

Spence, porter, thurman, pacman, garcia, charlo, hurd, jrock...they are all in house and a Crawford fight must not move the needle enough to make sense

Crawford can enjoy fighting twice a year against guys who have no chance and have espn call him great. Hes paid well too. Not a bad gig but hes irrelevant

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2019, 17:19 If he never gets the biggest fights, and never becomes the star he thinks he should. He can thank himself and his business savvy for that.

He's getting paid more than he would at pbc. Business wise it was the right move, but complaining about not getting the fights I can see the finger pointing. All those pbc guys haven't fought yet anyway. Did al offer him something?

When asked to comment on being trapped on the “wrong side of the road”, in the context of him not being matched-up against the PBC guys, Terence Crawford admitted the following:

“It really doesn’t bother me too much, as much as people think,” Crawford bristled when quizzed on his predicament in the build-up to Saturday’s fight. “I have accomplished more than all those welterweights over there except [Manny] Pacquiao.

“If you look at what I accomplished in the sport of boxing, if you look at what Errol [Spence], Keith [Thurman], Shawn [Porter], Danny Garcia, all those other welterweights have done over there. I really don’t need them. They need me.”

On a separate note, I’d be intrigued to see the ESPN viewing figures for Crawford’s fight this weekend, because if they continue to be poor, then we’ll never get to see Terence face any of his PBC rivals, since this would make any cross-network/cross-promotional venture commercially unfeasible.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 08:23 On a separate note, I’d be intrigued to see the ESPN viewing figures for Crawford’s fight this weekend, because if they continue to be poor, then we’ll never get to see Terence face any of his PBC rivals, since this would make any cross-network/cross-promotional venture commercially unfeasible.

How has his viewing figures been poor?

vs. Felix Diax - Average: 961,000 viewers | Peak: 1,036,000 viewers - HBO
vs. Julius Indongo - Average: 965,000 viewers - ESPN (This average was for the whole telecast, possibly over 2-3 hours)
vs. Jeff Horn - ESPN+ (Figures not disclosed)
vs. Jose Benavidez Jr. - Average: 2.2m viewers | Peak: 2.7m Viewers - ESPN (2-hour broadcast avg'd 2,245,000)
vs. Amir Khan - was Pay-Per-View

Spence's 2 ppv fights have come against top notable opponents, Mikey Garcia, who probably brought in more buys than Spence and Porter, a fight between 2 top welterweights.

Crawfords 2 ppv's were against Postol, a fight Arum did not want on ppv and Khan, who is long past his best days and a fight people did not want to see..

What do you think Spence vs. Ocampo or Peterson would have done on ppv?

I do think you're being a bit unfair on Crawford mate.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 09:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 08:23 On a separate note, I’d be intrigued to see the ESPN viewing figures for Crawford’s fight this weekend, because if they continue to be poor, then we’ll never get to see Terence face any of his PBC rivals, since this would make any cross-network/cross-promotional venture commercially unfeasible.

How has his viewing figures been poor?

vs. Felix Diax - Average: 961,000 viewers | Peak: 1,036,000 viewers - HBO
vs. Julius Indongo - Average: 965,000 viewers - ESPN (This average was for the whole telecast, possibly over 2-3 hours)
vs. Jeff Horn - ESPN+ (Figures not disclosed)
vs. Jose Benavidez Jr. - Average: 2.2m viewers | Peak: 2.7m Viewers - ESPN (2-hour broadcast avg'd 2,245,000)
vs. Amir Khan - was Pay-Per-View

Spence's 2 ppv fights have come against top notable opponents, Mikey Garcia, who probably brought in more buys than Spence and Porter, a fight between 2 top welterweights.

Crawfords 2 ppv's were against Postol, a fight Arum did not want on ppv and Khan, who is long past his best days and a fight people did not want to see..

What do you think Spence vs. Ocampo or Peterson would have done on ppv?

I do think you're being a bit unfair on Crawford mate.

If you're not with the PBC, you're against the PBC and EO is a rabid PBC nuthugger. He may deem that Crawford has besmirched the PBC and he can't tolerate that.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 10:05

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 09:32

How has his viewing figures been poor?

vs. Felix Diax - Average: 961,000 viewers | Peak: 1,036,000 viewers - HBO
vs. Julius Indongo - Average: 965,000 viewers - ESPN (This average was for the whole telecast, possibly over 2-3 hours)
vs. Jeff Horn - ESPN+ (Figures not disclosed)
vs. Jose Benavidez Jr. - Average: 2.2m viewers | Peak: 2.7m Viewers - ESPN (2-hour broadcast avg'd 2,245,000)
vs. Amir Khan - was Pay-Per-View

Spence's 2 ppv fights have come against top notable opponents, Mikey Garcia, who probably brought in more buys than Spence and Porter, a fight between 2 top welterweights.

Crawfords 2 ppv's were against Postol, a fight Arum did not want on ppv and Khan, who is long past his best days and a fight people did not want to see..

What do you think Spence vs. Ocampo or Peterson would have done on ppv?

I do think you're being a bit unfair on Crawford mate.

If you're not with the PBC, you're against the PBC and EO is a rabid PBC nuthugger. He may deem that Crawford has besmirched the PBC and he can't tolerate that.

Rather than reacting in a knee-jerk manner, by attacking me personally rather than researching/reviewing the validity of my claim, why don’t you instead take a look at the numbers and formulate your own opinion?

PBC/Top Rank PPV's during 2019:

• Manny Pacquiao vs. Keith Thurman (500,000)
• Manny Pacquiao vs. Adrien Broner (400,000)
• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Mikey Garcia (375,000)
• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Shawn Porter (350,000)
• Deontay Wilder vs. Luis Ortiz II (275,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Amir Khan (150,000)

Crawford’s previous PPV appearance against Viktor Postol only achieved 55K buys.

It’s also a fact that the ESPN viewing figures for non-PPV events are dwarfed considerably in comparison to the PBC events televised by Fox/Showtime.

Based on MMA Payout’s stats for ESPN’s last eight non-PPV event shows, which in turn are sourced by Nielsen, a typical Top Rank event on that network draws 550K viewers.

In stark contrast, the Kownacki-Arreola PBC event on Fox averaged 1.301m viewers, peaking at 1.869m. Similarly, the Lara-Alvarez show covered by the same network averaged 1.171m viewers, peaking at 1.492m.

From purely a commercial perspective, based on the audience figures and PPV buys, Terence Crawford isn’t a “big” enough name to make any cross-network/cross-promotional venture involving ESPN/Top Rank and Fox/Showtime/PBC fiscally viable.

I’ve not made any of this up, check the numbers for yourself and let me know your thoughts?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see Crawford compete against the likes of Spence Jr., but Bob Arum is demanding a 50-50 split for the purses, promotion & network coverage, despite the fact that Bud’s commercial worth, in terms of audience figures, PPV buys, revenue generation, sporting accomplishments at 147lbs, is nowhere near Errol’s. It’s not even close. So Top Rank are pricing themselves out of big fights.

I also blame the sanctioning bodies. They could easily rank Crawford at the top and force the other guys to have to fight him or be stripped.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑14 Dec 2019, 13:18 I also blame the sanctioning bodies. They could easily rank Crawford at the top and force the other guys to have to fight him or be stripped.

He has a belt.