Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.

[3132DW]

The issue is how much Cyclone are taking as % of takings - that was issue with Frampton. Every McGuigan including the Dog was on the payroll - 7 or 8 of them all under Cyclone in some form getting a wage.

Frampton was loyal for too long - everyone bar him could see he was the meal ticket.

Said on here before watch them mock Scott Quigg for being thick etc.....he told Frampton you might be the A side and getting more money but o bet I end up with more than you get.

Frampton is looking for 4m + in earnings from them.

No doubting they have managed Taylor well boxing wise - nobody could deny that but end of the day the guy getting punched is taking the risks and if he thinks he’s not getting enough poppy then he’s entitled to make that call.

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that, my agreement with that post was on Cyclone’s matchmaking and development of a prospect, which was refreshingly brisk and well-graduated in Taylor’s case, actually consistent fan and fighter friendly matchmaking, great to watch his career unfold without frustration at wasted time on nothing fights

I agree entirely on the Frampton issue and his having been a gravy train for that family- though I wonder if they’d have the front to try it with another fighter (or another fighter would let it happen) given that they have already been exposed for doing it to Frampton.

Yeah he’s been matched well - I actually think McGuigan has Improved as a trainer as well since the Frampton loss to LSC when he didn’t change anything when struggling.

Taylor is going to have to find a new team as well - there won’t be a shortage of takes but he’ll need to get right set up in place well away from hangers on in Edinburgh before he ends up in continual bother out of the ring.

[samwbr]

Taylor might get Cyclone back in the black after Frampton empties the vault.

[coneye]

Theres this kid who's a top ameteur , got massive potential everyone knows him , bee with his trainer since he was 10 years old ,, He decides to turn pro ,,, Along come the sharks they circle him they all want a peice , the Mako , shark , the Tiger shark , the grey nurse shark , all think there gonna get him ,,, Then along comes the White Pointer , by the name of Mcguigan ,, he tells the young fella . Look your ameteur coach done a great job , but he's past his use by date , we have the knoledge , we have the power , and we will get you too the top , just sign here , Course were takig a big % but your gonna earn big money it won't matter what we take , theres plenty left for you , and you need to understand , to get you where you need to be , you have to employ my son has trainer , myself has boss , my daughter to make the cuppa and my wife to wask the cups ,, but don't worry when we get you there , ypu'll be rich .. Oh and no you can't keep your old trainer of 10 years , who got you too this level , he only has 40 years experience of producing ABA champs , our Shane has been at the game for 10 minuites ,, theres no loalty in this game son , if you want the big fights and big money .

Fast forward a couple of years , and said kid is doing alright , in fact picks uP a version of a title , and wants the BIG MONEY FIGHTS ,, but along comes the Killer Whale , and says , listen son , the big white done a better job than the other little sharks , but he aint the king I AM i'm the killer whale , and i own the networks , the opposition , so if you want a crack at the BIG BIG MONEY , you have to get rid of that scrawnty boottom feeder who calls himself a big white , and come to me cos i'm the killer whale AND I RULE , SO HERE YOU ARE SON SIGN ON THE DOTTED , WE''LL BACK YOU UP IN COURT , AND WE WILL GET YOU A CRACK AT MY OTHEER FIGHTERS TO SEE IF YOU CAN BE UNDISPUTED AND MAKE COLOSAL MONEY ,,

That my freins is BOXING and its called THATS LIFE

[Coco]

On the legalities, I’m torn between wondering (1) can Cyclone be so slack and naive as to think a contract is watertight if it isn’t? Or (2) is TR so foolhardy as to sign a fighter who is under a watertight contract?

One of the above has to be true, hasn’t it? I’m no lawyer.

Is it stating the obvious to say I think (1) more likely than (2)? Is a breach of contract suit heading from Taylor to Cyclone as grounds to break the contract? Wouldn’t that potentially stymie his career if he got tied up in a legal battle?

Could Taylor be betting enough monies from TR to cover what he might end up paying Cyclone ?

Will he do what Burns did and bankrupt himself so they can’t get anything if he’s potless like his battle with FW.

Or has Taylor got legal reason to break the contract?

Non payment?

[coneye]

Cyclone ,, the new Franky baby .

[Stuarty]

Could Taylor be betting enough monies from TR to cover what he might end up paying Cyclone ?

Will he do what Burns did and bankrupt himself so they can’t get anything if he’s potless like his battle with FW.

Or has Taylor got legal reason to break the contract?

Non payment?

There were a lot of groans regarding payments from a few different fighters in regards to the WBSS so maybe you have a point although that was run by the Sauerlands... Maybe there's been a bit of a ding dong over monies...

[KiwiRider]

Or has Taylor got legal reason to break the contract?

Non payment?

There were a lot of groans regarding payments from a few different fighters in regards to the WBSS so maybe you have a point although that was run by the Sauerlands... Maybe there's been a bit of a ding dong over monies...

From Taylor;



“I wanted to stay respectfully silent about my relationship with Cyclone but given they have released a statement, it is only proper that I respond.”

“While I acknowledge and appreciate the role that Cyclone has played in my career to date, three weeks ago I terminated my promotional agreement with Cyclone as a result of various breaches of contract including, in particular, breaches relating to a conflict of interest on the part of the promoter,”

And;

“That allowed me to search for a new promoter, which I have found in Top Rank. I wanted to part ways amicably and without resorting to court proceedings [and] I thought and hoped the McGuigans would feel the same way given the litigation they are involved in with other fighters.

[Stuarty]

There were a lot of groans regarding payments from a few different fighters in regards to the WBSS so maybe you have a point although that was run by the Sauerlands... Maybe there's been a bit of a ding dong over monies...

From Taylor;



“I wanted to stay respectfully silent about my relationship with Cyclone but given they have released a statement, it is only proper that I respond.”

“While I acknowledge and appreciate the role that Cyclone has played in my career to date, three weeks ago I terminated my promotional agreement with Cyclone as a result of various breaches of contract including, in particular, breaches relating to a conflict of interest on the part of the promoter,”

And;

“That allowed me to search for a new promoter, which I have found in Top Rank. I wanted to part ways amicably and without resorting to court proceedings [and] I thought and hoped the McGuigans would feel the same way given the litigation they are involved in with other fighters.

Taylor isn't exactly Johnnie fuckin Cochran so it's clear he's being well advised in his replies here. He obviously wasn't happy with his agreement with Cyclone and how they were handling him so he's taken legal advice and moved on. I hope he's in the right and he's gonna be ok moving forward. He's my favourite fighter and the only fighter just now that i will lose sleep when he's about to fight so from a selfish point of view i hope it all works out! At least it looks as if it's in the hands of the lawyers... Not that that's anything to celebrate

[coneye]

Adding to my Earlier post ,, If you want loyalty , and trust , STAY with your original ameteur trainer ,, The one who trained you 3-4 nights a week for no payment , picked you up and drove you round the country to fight 3 rnds and then drove you back , the one who quite often, out of his own pocket stopped and bought all the kids a bag of chips and a soft drink , cos they were hungry , the one who put his heart and soull and usually about 40 years , coaching for little or no reward ,, because after all heh , not all your gym mates are gonna be champions , in fact most are not , ,

But when you go with the profesional Sharks , you better watch out ,

Will say this stuff seems to be getting a regular occurence with the mCGUIGANS , not everyone can be wrong , and it will effect Shane has an up and coming trainer , after all , if you are gonna leave your long time coach is this the shark you would want to go with .

[Stuarty]

Adding to my Earlier post ,, If you want loyalty , and trust , STAY with your original ameteur trainer ,, The one who trained you 3-4 nights a week for no payment , picked you up and drove you round the country to fight 3 rnds and then drove you back , the one who quite often, out of his own pocket stopped and bought all the kids a bag of chips and a soft drink , cos they were hungry , the one who put his heart and soull and usually about 40 years , coaching for little or no reward ,, because after all heh , not all your gym mates are gonna be champions , in fact most are not , ,

But when you go with the profesional Sharks , you better watch out ,

Will say this stuff seems to be getting a regular occurence with the mCGUIGANS , not everyone can be wrong , and it will effect Shane has an up and coming trainer , after all , if you are gonna leave your long time coach is this the shark you would want to go with .

Different games though mate. You can't stay with your am trainer when you go pro. It doesn't match up really. I remember Ricky Burns boxed out the Barn in Coatbridge and stayed with his am trainer when he turned over. He was good and had a few good wins and even got a couple title shots but didn't really make any major improvements til he went with Billy Nelson and then it was night and day man! Nelson turned Burns potential as an am in to contender material and then a world champ in the pro game. I know thats just one example but that's just my personal experience

[coneye]

Adding to my Earlier post ,, If you want loyalty , and trust , STAY with your original ameteur trainer ,, The one who trained you 3-4 nights a week for no payment , picked you up and drove you round the country to fight 3 rnds and then drove you back , the one who quite often, out of his own pocket stopped and bought all the kids a bag of chips and a soft drink , cos they were hungry , the one who put his heart and soull and usually about 40 years , coaching for little or no reward ,, because after all heh , not all your gym mates are gonna be champions , in fact most are not , ,

But when you go with the profesional Sharks , you better watch out ,

Will say this stuff seems to be getting a regular occurence with the mCGUIGANS , not everyone can be wrong , and it will effect Shane has an up and coming trainer , after all , if you are gonna leave your long time coach is this the shark you would want to go with .

Different games though mate. You can't stay with your am trainer when you go pro. It doesn't match up really. I remember Ricky Burns boxed out the Barn in Coatbridge and stayed with his am trainer when he turned over. He was good and had a few good wins and even got a couple title shots but didn't really make any major improvements til he went with Billy Nelson and then it was night and day man! Nelson turned Burns potential as an am in to contender material and then a world champ in the pro game. I know thats just one example but that's just my personal experience

All depends Stuart , on the trainer , especielly nowadays , a lot of the ameteur trainers train lads to a certain style , but theres still an awful lot who have the knoledge and experience to do the job ,, I think what its more about is the contacts , You can bring up and train a dozen ABA champs , but when they turn over if you don't have the contacts and the clout , really alls you can do is try to help them go to the right guy .

[Spud]

I have read all the posts with interest. People make good points on both sides of the debate.

My point all along in boxing terms what had Cyclone done wrong to warrant a change?

Clearly Top Rank are world class promoters & MTK rise has been nothing short of phenomenal.

In addition, Taylors response also adds fuel to the fire.

Very sadly its another case which will be sorted out in the courts.

[coneye]

I have read all the posts with interest. People make good points on both sides of the debate.

My point all along in boxing terms what had Cyclone done wrong to warrant a change?

Clearly Top Rank are world class promoters & MTK rise has been nothing short of phenomenal.

In addition, Taylors response also adds fuel to the fire.

Very sadly its another case which will be sorted out in the courts.

With only guessing and assuming , to go by , I can't help but think where theres smoke theres fire , Bringing along nicely seems to be , done well by them ,,, But the familly members on the payroll certainly seems excessive , so you really do have to look at the money side of it , But like i said , it always gets to a stage where the bigger shark pushes the smaller one out of the way ,, even seems to be happenning with Fury and Warren ,,,

Theres no doubt about it if Uncle Bob wants you , your gonna find a way to go , Macguigan and ALL the other promoters will show NO LOYALTY when a fighter gets beat or just simply does'nt live up to expectations he will be dropped ,, so really if Taylor is reaching the top and they can't deliver , they should'nt be suprised if he goes to someone who can ,, and Uncle Bob and the yankee dollars , would be the place i would head if i was Josh .

But has stated he must have a valid reason or its court days and suspended carreer not big fights and lots of money , so regardless , macgigans MUST be somehow giving there fighters an out

[3132DW]

There were a lot of groans regarding payments from a few different fighters in regards to the WBSS so maybe you have a point although that was run by the Sauerlands... Maybe there's been a bit of a ding dong over monies...

From Taylor;



“I wanted to stay respectfully silent about my relationship with Cyclone but given they have released a statement, it is only proper that I respond.”

“While I acknowledge and appreciate the role that Cyclone has played in my career to date, three weeks ago I terminated my promotional agreement with Cyclone as a result of various breaches of contract including, in particular, breaches relating to a conflict of interest on the part of the promoter,”

And;

“That allowed me to search for a new promoter, which I have found in Top Rank. I wanted to part ways amicably and without resorting to court proceedings [and] I thought and hoped the McGuigans would feel the same way given the litigation they are involved in with other fighters.

Hearn has his faults but he said to Frampton way back - you cannot be Promotor and Manager of the fighter. You can’t do both you need both - having only 1 isn’t right - now when you think about that he’s correct.

Promotor - He’s there to make most monies from his show.

Manager - Should be in place to get you the best deal possible (unless you self manage)

How is Cyclone going to give best deal to fighter when the more they pay them the less there is for the business and the family.

Shane’s lost fighters because of the set up promotionally - but the set up was all wrong.

[tobyh5]

I am absolutely gobsmacked that most experienced and intelligent posters here have immediately gone with a "no loyalty, he has been so well guided, McGuigans done a great job, disappointing to hear" opinion with not a single thought beyond that.

Come on guys, we do not know what has gone on, we are not privvy to any insider information, contracts, money paid, expenses deducted or anything else. Yes he has been really well guided in his actual career but there is more than that at play for a fighter. Should he stay with a promoter who is guiding him well while rinsing him stupid financiall behind the scenes?

Not saying that is happening, but my immediate thought is not one-sided but open to there being possibly justifiable reasons here.

We do know that the McGuigans have a reputation of getting more than their fair share of purses through expenses and family on the payroll, almost Don King like in that regard. I always remember an interview with Tim Witherspoon where he said he netted 90k out of the $2million Bruno purse.

[ewenhay]

Maybe it's time for Shane to split with Cyclone too.

The promotional part of the business is now detrimental to his career as a trainer

[Coco]

Maybe it's time for Shane to split with Cyclone too.

The promotional part of the business is now detrimental to his career as a trainer

He wouldn't have trained anyone if it wasn't for the cyclone deal?

Biting the hand that feeds him!

Who have Cyclone got left now?

[ewenhay]

Maybe it's time for Shane to split with Cyclone too.

The promotional part of the business is now detrimental to his career as a trainer

He wouldn't have trained anyone if it wasn't for the cyclone deal?

Biting the hand that feeds him!

Who have Cyclone got left now?

Yeah I know but we all started somewhere.

Unless he's happy losing all the fighters he has trained recently? I would doubt it

[Coco]

I haven't seen anything in Shane which would lead to him getting fighters off his own back.

If you look at trainers like Tibbs, Lockett, Ingle, Nelson, Tesco, McCracken, these guys are in the top division. And there are plenty more too. Shane has just got some work, training top fighters which his dad gas given him. I'm sure he gets his fighters fit and motivates them but other than that he is very Ben Davison.

[cormack]

a contract is a contract and must be upheld.

but $$$$

[ewenhay]

I haven't seen anything in Shane which would lead to him getting fighters off his own back.

If you look at trainers like Tibbs, Lockett, Ingle, Nelson, Tesco, McCracken, these guys are in the top division. And there are plenty more too. Shane has just got some work, training top fighters which his dad gas given him. I'm sure he gets his fighters fit and motivates them but other than that he is very Ben Davison.

He's never going to find out unless he cuts the apron strings.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Shocked

After all the effort and expertise the McGuigans have put in, it seems pretty disgraceful to me.

Frampton hasn't looked as good since he parted company with Cyclone IMO and sadly I expect the same for Taylor, who admittedly is a considerably better fighter than Carl was/is.

Wasn’t Cyclone going into liquidation though?

[Ezzard]

Feel Taylor can rule the roost for a while at 140. He can take on Ramirez and rematch Reggie... Then there are others like Davis and maybe even Loma.

He will not have the same success at 147. He should not move up in weight unless the money is too good to refuse. Arum will be looking to feed him to other members of his stable.

[Wee Tommy]

Arum loves a white fighter. He won’t hurt Josh I think he will help turn him into a superstar.

To think Barry and his family would rinse Frampton but ‘done a good job’ for Taylor. Boggles the mind some of the posts on here. Loyalty mans fighting for his own future not the McGuigans.

[ThereByTheGrace]

I am absolutely gobsmacked that most experienced and intelligent posters here have immediately gone with a "no loyalty, he has been so well guided, McGuigans done a great job, disappointing to hear" opinion with not a single thought beyond that.

Come on guys, we do not know what has gone on, we are not privvy to any insider information, contracts, money paid, expenses deducted or anything else. Yes he has been really well guided in his actual career but there is more than that at play for a fighter. Should he stay with a promoter who is guiding him well while rinsing him stupid financiall behind the scenes?

Not saying that is happening, but my immediate thought is not one-sided but open to there being possibly justifiable reasons here.

We do know that the McGuigans have a reputation of getting more than their fair share of purses through expenses and family on the payroll, almost Don King like in that regard. I always remember an interview with Tim Witherspoon where he said he netted 90k out of the $2million Bruno purse.

No different as to when a footballer moves to another club to play at higher level.

The legal contract will be interesting though. Seems top rank arent concerned and will have read it all anyway.

Best of luck to taylor it is the right decision