BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 14:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 10:06

More like 6'3"/6'3.5" I'd say. We'll know a lot more about Usyk at HW after facing Chis. Don't think he'll have enough power to keep the top guys off him.

Who are the top guys? Just the top 3?

and Ortiz.

I'd be interested in that, Ort is good with his hands but pretty freaking slow and plodding on his feet, I think Usyk could outhustle and move the soon to be 41 year old. Ort isn't one to really be that aggressive either, not sure Usyk would really have to get his respect with power. Ort is more stand offish, liking to measure his opponent. I could see Usyk outworking him with the jab and movement

For me it's not so much about Ort respecting Usyk's power or not, as it is with how does Usyk react to Ort's power ?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:36 I'd be interested in that, Ort is good with his hands but pretty freaking slow and plodding on his feet, I think Usyk could outhustle and move the soon to be 41 year old. Ort isn't one to really be that aggressive either, not sure Usyk would really have to get his respect with power. Ort is more stand offish, liking to measure his opponent. I could see Usyk outworking him with the jab and movement

For me it's not so much about Ort respecting Usyk's power or not, as it is with how does Usyk react to Ort's power ?

I'm still not sold on Usyk at HW, as we've discussed before.

Matt W wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 08:49

Autobarn wrote: ↑29 Jan 2020, 12:10 Hopefully a good heavyweight battle and a worthy learning experience for Usyk.

Also hopefully Usyk’s body will remain sturdy and this will not be the beginning of the type of injuries that David Haye would suffer. Guys who move up, including James Toney as well, always end up having something wrong with them at the higher weight. Also hopefully this is not the beginning of bloated mediocrity ala Tomasz Adamek (not fast enough any more, and never strong or powerful enough) my favourite non-Holyfield cruiserweight.

Without accusing anybody of anything, it is worth noting that an outcome of PED use is tendon injuries due to the added stresses caused by stronger muscles than the tendons are able to cope with.

good point. As seemed to have been the case with James Toney, given the peoplemhe was working with, when his Achilles snapped while sparring for the ill fated fight with Jamel McCline.

I just feel Evander is a one off, a tremendously strong and athletic man. He had the speed to box outside, and the core strength to keep marching forward.

Some of these pretenders, I just feel their bones, joints and muscles aren’t strong enough to land punches on a genuine heavy, or take punches from a genuine heavy. Never mind a super sized heavyweight.

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:58

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:36 I'd be interested in that, Ort is good with his hands but pretty freaking slow and plodding on his feet, I think Usyk could outhustle and move the soon to be 41 year old. Ort isn't one to really be that aggressive either, not sure Usyk would really have to get his respect with power. Ort is more stand offish, liking to measure his opponent. I could see Usyk outworking him with the jab and movement

For me it's not so much about Ort respecting Usyk's power or not, as it is with how does Usyk react to Ort's power ?

I'm still not sold on Usyk at HW, as we've discussed before.

Me either.

Autobarn wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:15

Matt W wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 08:49

Without accusing anybody of anything, it is worth noting that an outcome of PED use is tendon injuries due to the added stresses caused by stronger muscles than the tendons are able to cope with.

good point. As seemed to have been the case with James Toney, given the peoplemhe was working with, when his Achilles snapped while sparring for the ill fated fight with Jamel McCline.

I just feel Evander is a one off, a tremendously strong and athletic man. He had the speed to box outside, and the core strength to keep marching forward.

Some of these pretenders, I just feel their bones, joints and muscles aren’t strong enough to land punches on a genuine heavy, or take punches from a genuine heavy. Never mind a super sized heavyweight.

Apparently physical strength and punching power too are in no small part governed by the strength and thickness of the tendons, as they are essential for the integrity of the kinetic chain, and transfer of power.

There was a guy who held multiple worls recprds for feats of strength, who was only about 180 pounds, he held back two propeller planes by locking his arms together, was incredible. His tendons and ligaments were times the normal thickness

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:59

Autobarn wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:15 good point. As seemed to have been the case with James Toney, given the peoplemhe was working with, when his Achilles snapped while sparring for the ill fated fight with Jamel McCline.

I just feel Evander is a one off, a tremendously strong and athletic man. He had the speed to box outside, and the core strength to keep marching forward.

Some of these pretenders, I just feel their bones, joints and muscles aren’t strong enough to land punches on a genuine heavy, or take punches from a genuine heavy. Never mind a super sized heavyweight.

Apparently physical strength and punching power too are in no small part governed by the strength and thickness of the tendons, as they are essential for the integrity of the kinetic chain, and transfer of power.

There was a guy who held multiple worls recprds for feats of strength, who was only about 180 pounds, he held back two propeller planes by locking his arms together, was incredible. His tendons and ligaments were times the normal thickness

True, at least in part. It's also technique, some fighters learn to sit down on and snap punches often well in to their careers (you get some examples of fighters never KOing anyone then suddenly going on KO runs)

Oh that's a given, but the kinetic chain is generally better in those with strong ligaments, tendons and of course bones.

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:58

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:36 I'd be interested in that, Ort is good with his hands but pretty freaking slow and plodding on his feet, I think Usyk could outhustle and move the soon to be 41 year old. Ort isn't one to really be that aggressive either, not sure Usyk would really have to get his respect with power. Ort is more stand offish, liking to measure his opponent. I could see Usyk outworking him with the jab and movement

For me it's not so much about Ort respecting Usyk's power or not, as it is with how does Usyk react to Ort's power ?

I'm still not sold on Usyk at HW, as we've discussed before.

People are getting away ahead of themselves.

If chisora turns up in shape and motivated, we will know a lot more afterward.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 10:34

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:58

I'm still not sold on Usyk at HW, as we've discussed before.

People are getting away ahead of themselves.

If chisora turns up in shape and motivated, we will know a lot more afterward.

Where's the fun in that though?

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 10:34

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:58

I'm still not sold on Usyk at HW, as we've discussed before.

People are getting away ahead of themselves.

If chisora turns up in shape and motivated, we will know a lot more afterward.

Funny how Chisora really only turns up unmotivated vs guys who box him

I don’t think Ortiz is much bigger than Usyk naturally ! He has just filled out ! Was a 91kg amateur too. He obviously has a punch but as mentioned earlier is old and hence slower than his prime.

My feeling about Usyk has always been he handles everyone outside of Joshua/Fury and Wilder

He has the same issues with Wilder that everyone has - he can be up 110-99 going into the 12th and that could mean nothing.

Fury’s size and movement will be an issue although Fury’s workrate is much lower than Usyk

Joshua presents the size and strength advantages, as well as the judges being his best mates. He will struggle to catch Usyk clean though, as will everyone else:

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 13:57

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 10:34
People are getting away ahead of themselves.

If chisora turns up in shape and motivated, we will know a lot more afterward.

Funny how Chisora really only turns up unmotivated vs guys who box him

Hahahaha !! There is a huge element of truth in this ...

“It’s pretty much established now, chronologically, that [Kubrat] Pulev is first,” Eddie Hearn, Joshua’s career-long promoter—and Usyk’s co-promoter—told BS.com of where the Ukrainian southpaw ranks in the list of mandatory challengers in waiting. “But of course, the WBO wants to know what’s happening with Usyk as their mandatory challenger.”

“So, we get Usyk and Chisora, hopefully in late March, and then AJ and Pulev late May, early June,” noted Hearn. “Then, the winners will square off later this year.”

Most boxing heights are inflated, and I'd guess 6'2.5" for Usyk, 6'5" for AJ, 6'6" for Wilder, and 6'7.5" for Fury.

There's clearly a big gap between Usyk and Fury, but not so much between the rest of them I don't think.

i would expect usyk to ko delboy early aswell before 4rd

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 13:57

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 10:34
People are getting away ahead of themselves.

If chisora turns up in shape and motivated, we will know a lot more afterward.

Funny how Chisora really only turns up unmotivated vs guys who box him

As you know, I've been a fan of Del Boy for years, and realistically there just isn't a science behind how he turns up to a fight
I wish there was, because as a fan of him, there have been inexplicable disappointments aplenty in the past

brilo33 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 18:52 i would expect usyk to ko delboy early aswell before 4rd

He doesn't really do that to anyone. He even took Bellew longer than that, and Bellew is much smaller and sh*tter than Chisora.

Usyk will win every round without getting out of first gear. Del boy might gas if he pushes forward in frustration. Usyk 120-108 or late tko.

Chisora quits in the 8th.

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 22:20

brilo33 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 18:52 i would expect usyk to ko delboy early aswell before 4rd

He doesn't really do that to anyone. He even took Bellew longer than that, and Bellew is much smaller and sh*tter than Chisora.

Yeh. Usyk is a known late starter at time. But that doesn’t mean he can’t still win the first few rounds.

brilo33 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 18:52 i would expect usyk to ko delboy early aswell before 4rd

Only a peak Haye has gotten Chisora out early. Usyk has nowhere near the power of Haye.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:59

Autobarn wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:15 good point. As seemed to have been the case with James Toney, given the peoplemhe was working with, when his Achilles snapped while sparring for the ill fated fight with Jamel McCline.

I just feel Evander is a one off, a tremendously strong and athletic man. He had the speed to box outside, and the core strength to keep marching forward.

Some of these pretenders, I just feel their bones, joints and muscles aren’t strong enough to land punches on a genuine heavy, or take punches from a genuine heavy. Never mind a super sized heavyweight.

Apparently physical strength and punching power too are in no small part governed by the strength and thickness of the tendons, as they are essential for the integrity of the kinetic chain, and transfer of power.

There was a guy who held multiple worls recprds for feats of strength, who was only about 180 pounds, he held back two propeller planes by locking his arms together, was incredible. His tendons and ligaments were times the normal thickness

Who is this 180lb man James?

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 10:50

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑31 Jan 2020, 05:59
Apparently physical strength and punching power too are in no small part governed by the strength and thickness of the tendons, as they are essential for the integrity of the kinetic chain, and transfer of power.

There was a guy who held multiple worls recprds for feats of strength, who was only about 180 pounds, he held back two propeller planes by locking his arms together, was incredible. His tendons and ligaments were times the normal thickness

Who is this 180lb man James?

Clark Kent

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 16:36 I'd be interested in that, Ort is good with his hands but pretty freaking slow and plodding on his feet, I think Usyk could outhustle and move the soon to be 41 year old. Ort isn't one to really be that aggressive either, not sure Usyk would really have to get his respect with power. Ort is more stand offish, liking to measure his opponent. I could see Usyk outworking him with the jab and movement

For me it's not so much about Ort respecting Usyk's power or not, as it is with how does Usyk react to Ort's power ?

If he can stand up to Chisora's power, he shouldn't be overly concerned with Ortiz's