BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:53

Paci wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:42 Well, soon Fury will get the green belt from Wilder this coming month. In 2 rounds.

More likely he will get a concussion and a loss on his record.

I agree

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:53 Thanks mate, glad I could answer some of your questions about me

I only asked one question

ewenhay wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:55

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:53 Thanks mate, glad I could answer some of your questions about me

I only asked one question

With some lovely commentary as well, perhaps you could pen an essay about your favourite poster? I think you'd prefer that over boxing

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:56

ewenhay wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:55


I only asked one question

With some lovely commentary as well, perhaps you could pen an essay about your favourite poster? I think you'd prefer that over boxing

It's hard to find all the sensible posts about boxing in amongst yours

ewenhay wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:30 Fury has the best case to be considered lineal.

People latching into the 'retirement' are just clutching at straws.

But in reality the lineal championship hasn't meant much for about 50 years.

Although I'd rather scrap all the belts and get back to a lineal system

It never meant anything and it was never a system Just a way of tracking champs back to when there was only one. Jack Dempsey was never walking around saying I'm the lineal champ motherfucker!!!

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:53

Paci wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 10:42 Well, soon Fury will get the green belt from Wilder this coming month. In 2 rounds.

More likely he will get a concussion and a loss on his record.

Hoping for a great fight either way

i feel like there are too many breaks in the lineage for the title to mean anything anymore

Has anyone watched Tyson Fury: The Gypsy King on ITV?

Episode 1 is on ITV player; episode 2 screens next Thursday night.

yes, I watched it and I thought it was a good insight into the Gypsy King's life.
Looking forward to episode 2.

Agree with eo above.
Wlad beat byrd. Who was rated no.1. Wlad then beat ibragimov at some point. Had 2 belts then. Then beat chagaev, who was ranked no.3, after vitali and had been wba champ.
Was ring Champ at this point, with vitali the only potential argument.
Wlad beat haye, wba Champ and no.3 after vitali. Now had 3 belts.
Vitali retired.
Wlad beat povetkin, ranked no.1 contender.
Wlad beat pulev, ranked no.1 contender.

The wbc belt went from stiverne to Wilder at some point after vitalis retirement. Neither one were considered a real champ at this point.

So Wlad had well and truly consolidated himself as world heavyweight champ.
Fury took that when he beat him.
He arguably forefitted that when he retired.
Aj became number 1 with some good wins, Wilder number 2.
Fury jumps back in and gets a 'draw' with Wilder. Becomes no.1 again.
Aj loses and wins, slips down to no.3.
Wilder stays at no.2.

Fury was lineal champ when he beat wlad. Went inactive. Now it's up for grabs again.
Winner of fury-wilder 2 becomes new champ. Aj being the only argument / no.1 contender.

Lineal champion is not the same as "number 1" perceived by most. Lineal champion is a man who beat the man. If "the man" doesn't exist, then you start a lineage by becoming an undisputed champion. In other cases, it is always questionable. Wlad had more belts than Vitaly, but never had all of them. Vitaly retired but there was another WBC champion to beat, and Wlad didn't fight him.

60% know what lineal means

40% don't know or pretend Fury is not lineal champion

sturm vogel wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 01:53 60% know what lineal means

40% don't know or pretend Fury is not lineal champion

or perhaps a lot of people just prefer a belt that confirms that a legitimate championship fight took place and someone won .
this lineal thing has been stretched to a stupidly ridiculous point in furys case , especially given how few meaningful opponents he has faced .

Tony Bellew has a better resume !
as does Whyte
AJ of course wipes the floor in this respect .

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Feb 2020, 19:35 If "the man" doesn't exist, then you start a lineage by becoming an undisputed champion.

That’s not necessarily the case. I can name many instances when this hasn’t occurred.

Why does anybody give a shit about this lineal nonsense?

One thing you can bank on, is that if Wilder wins vs Fury, all the Wilder haters that say Fury is lineal champ, will say it no longer exists. (as it should be, because it is insignificant and outdated)

Bandog wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 07:50 One thing you can bank on, is that if Wilder wins vs Fury, all the Wilder haters that say Fury is lineal champ, will say it no longer exists. (as it should be, because it is insignificant and outdated)

No, if Wilder Wins he will become the lineal champion - like it or not.

SteveO wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 08:19

Bandog wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 07:50 One thing you can bank on, is that if Wilder wins vs Fury, all the Wilder haters that say Fury is lineal champ, will say it no longer exists. (as it should be, because it is insignificant and outdated)

No, if Wilder Wins he will become the lineal champion - like it or not.

... and that will be disputed by many. Hope he fights Joshua to create an undisputed champion and start a lineage nobody would question.

Lol that is probably true, you'll get many people who said lineal is irrelevant suddenly jizzing it up, and many of the lineal nuthuggers probably ignoring it now

To me it's always been lame, it has fewer obligations than a WBU bronze intercontinetal jr title

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 14:30

SteveO wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 08:19

No, if Wilder Wins he will become the lineal champion - like it or not.

... and that will be disputed by many. Hope he fights Joshua to create an undisputed champion and start a lineage nobody would question.

....and the many would be wrong.
I really hope the winner fights AJ too. There should be no arguments then, but I'm sure somebody would find one!
Incidentally Wider-Fury 2 is also for the vacant Ring Magazine belt.

The lineage, which dated back to Ali and prior, ended when Lewis retired. Wlad was somehow declared a new lineal champion, which is actually impossible.

The whole point of 'lineal' is that it is the man, who beat the man, etc. With Lennox Lewis you can trace the lineage back to Ali, Liston, Patterson, etc. and prior. Lewis then retired thus ended the lineage.

I doubt that Wlad would have beaten Vitali, so you can't even really call him 'the man.'

In short, it is impossible to call Fury the lineal champion when the lineage ended in 2003 when Lewis retired and Wlad was never really even 'the man' because his big brother was arguably better than him.

How do you become the man then now? Wlad was still active after his bro retired, was he not the man in the division in say 2013?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 15:34 How do you become the man then now? Wlad was still active after his bro retired, was he not the man in the division in say 2013?

Now you can become 'the man' by the Wilder vs Fury winner fighting AJ. Then you'd have all 4 belts (plus The Ring belt) being held by one person.

Unless and until that happens, there will not be 'the man' in the current HW division.

SmoothStyle1 wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 15:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Feb 2020, 15:34 How do you become the man then now? Wlad was still active after his bro retired, was he not the man in the division in say 2013?

Now you can become 'the man' by the Wilder vs Fury winner fighting AJ. Then you'd have all 4 belts (plus The Ring belt) being held by one person.

Unless and until that happens, there will not be 'the man' in the current HW division.

... and Wlad could've become "the man" by beating Wilder.

Wlad became 'the man' by beating #1 contender Ruslan Chagaev.
After Vitali retired Wlad also beat the #1 contender Alexander Povetkin, thus establishing a new lineage.