BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Mar 2020, 18:20 Lol, you said Williams was more elusive, then use Fury getting dropped as part of your argument. Um, talk about only looking at one side of it when big slick Clev was down 25 times, hurt every other round, and could barely avoid a punch lol. But that's just alp for you, criticize one guy for something but excuse it for the other guy, who always happens to be an older fighter

Williams was dropped plenty at every stage of his career. It's baffling why you chose him as a guy more elusive than Fury, he was a caveman and wasn't even close to the most elusive Liston fought. But he fought in the right time, and that's really what matters for 'ambling alp'

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Mar 2020, 18:37 Here's his record, he is knocked down plenty at every stage of his career , there are so many opponents to name, do the work for yourself

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/9382


Look at the paper, watch the fights, take whatever approach--it's clear that Willy was an easy to hit, crude banger. How he even comes to your mind when elusivity is mentioned is beyond strange, unless you were trying to think of guys who are nothing close to it and are simply getting your wires crossed. He had pretty much no defensive skills to fall back on whatever the stage of his career. You've even tried to excuse him by saying he was easy to hit because he was on offense--but then he wasn't elusive at all was he and that's just your reasoning as to why. So what is it?

I thank you for the laughs

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 16:26 I am not ducking your question at all my child, as I've said the names are there for you to see with nothing hidden--he was getting put on his ass at every point in his boxing life. You said Williams was more elusive than Fury and used Fury getting dropped a couple times as part of your argument, too bad for you if people caught an called you out on how ridiculous that

Like I said, you have even conceded that Williams wasnt' actually elusive at all, and that he was easy to hit due to his style, and then you conjured up some fantasy scenario where he is trying to box and move like Fury. You seem to not keep track of your own argument lol

It's not just on paper bruh, I mentioned all the film out there too. By any standard---the 25 kds and dozens of times hurt, the footage which shows a guy who can't avoid a punch---mentioning slick willy is just laughable, but perhaps not unexpected from you, and it just proves what others have said about your historical fetishism

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 12:17 Williams took the Satterfield fight literally at the last minute. As in, he was in the crowd and was asked to sub. I don't even think his trainer was there. That doesn't count as being his prime. (Arguably had not reached his prime by then anyway.)
He was not in his prime yet when he fought Jones in 1953. He had been a pro for less than two years.

So we are back to Sonny Liston being the only person to do it to Williams in his prime. In fact, in about a 10-year period of time, he was stopped only twice (the only fights he lost during this time), and was nocked down in two fights. Both times against …..drumroll please..... Sonny Liston.

And since this thread is about Sonny Liston, it suggests that Liston was pretty good. Even better than the legendary Tyson Fury.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:46 Come on Oogiebe. You can't seriously think Williams was in his prime for these fights.

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:50

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:46 Come on Oogiebe. You can't seriously think Williams was in his prime for these fights.

Never said he was or wasn't. Just responding to your post saying he wasn't knocked down until Liston. That's all.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 11:48

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:50
Never said he was or wasn't. Just responding to your post saying he wasn't knocked down until Liston. That's all.

Well, I think you misunderstood me earlier. I was asking about Williams' prime.

I asked him "Since you have followed Williams career quite closely, who outside of Liston, knocked down Williams when he was in his prime? "
After he ducked the question, I again asked "besides Liston, knocked down Williams when Williams was in his prime ?"

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 08:30 Stop arguing with Alp. He's utterly biased. You're wasting your time. A nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:03

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 11:48

Well, I think you misunderstood me earlier. I was asking about Williams' prime.

I asked him "Since you have followed Williams career quite closely, who outside of Liston, knocked down Williams when he was in his prime? "
After he ducked the question, I again asked "besides Liston, knocked down Williams when Williams was in his prime ?"

Ok, so when exactly was Williams in his prime?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 20:32 About the same as Fury. Like I said originally. Never said he was slick. My point was regarding Fury. There was no reason to go on and on about Williams who I had mentioned in passing. No reason to start two other threads about him. The thread is about Fury and Liston.