Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 19 Apr 2020, 09:48
dont think so, only kids
BoxRec
George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Page 3 of 3
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 19 Apr 2020, 12:34
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 19 Apr 2020, 14:22
Needs to bring the `tache back I reckon...
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 19 Apr 2020, 14:23
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 19 Apr 2020, 14:51
Wharton walked three miles every night to get from his site to York Station. Then another three to get to St Pats in Leeds. As a kid. And 10 brothers and sisters in two trailers. And a dad who wasn’t shy with his fists. No wonder he grew up fast.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 12:39
I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.Controversial wrote: ↑19 Apr 2020, 06:44Does the way some traveller families live help with their children being more mature and physically stronger, for example maybe getting involved in more manual labour type work from a young age? Sorry that isn’t meant to be offensive but I knew one traveller lad from school and he was a strong as an ox, his family ran a building firm and he often would get stuck in lifting and dragging stuff about which probably explained why he was so much stronger than the rest of us.Londonirish wrote: ↑19 Apr 2020, 06:13
Im a Traveller and was very mature for my age, from 11 years old people use to always say "He's got to be 14" I was very Hairy and strong putting them kids over and stopping most I fought. I won the Schoolboys at 54kg at the age of 15 and then 10 Years later I won the British Title at 53.5kg.
I remember The Schoolboy finals 92 the last year it was held at Darby, when seeing the doctor had to get 2 of the boys to have a shave before they fought, both Travellers.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 13:30
It would be interesting to see what percentage of junior traveller boxers don’t box as seniors (or not for very long) - I bet the number is lower than non-traveller junior boxersLondonirish wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 12:39I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.Controversial wrote: ↑19 Apr 2020, 06:44
Does the way some traveller families live help with their children being more mature and physically stronger, for example maybe getting involved in more manual labour type work from a young age? Sorry that isn’t meant to be offensive but I knew one traveller lad from school and he was a strong as an ox, his family ran a building firm and he often would get stuck in lifting and dragging stuff about which probably explained why he was so much stronger than the rest of us.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 14:02
Makes sense. So lying about their age isn’t really an issue then?Londonirish wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 12:39I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.Controversial wrote: ↑19 Apr 2020, 06:44
Does the way some traveller families live help with their children being more mature and physically stronger, for example maybe getting involved in more manual labour type work from a young age? Sorry that isn’t meant to be offensive but I knew one traveller lad from school and he was a strong as an ox, his family ran a building firm and he often would get stuck in lifting and dragging stuff about which probably explained why he was so much stronger than the rest of us.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 14:43
Thanks for the insight and honesty, LondonIrish.Londonirish wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 12:39I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.Controversial wrote: ↑19 Apr 2020, 06:44
Does the way some traveller families live help with their children being more mature and physically stronger, for example maybe getting involved in more manual labour type work from a young age? Sorry that isn’t meant to be offensive but I knew one traveller lad from school and he was a strong as an ox, his family ran a building firm and he often would get stuck in lifting and dragging stuff about which probably explained why he was so much stronger than the rest of us.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 15:09
Not saying that there hasn't been. I've seen for my self some hairy arsed 15 year old with fully grown beards welterweight boys, that iv said my self no way are they 15Controversial wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 14:02Makes sense. So lying about their age isn’t really an issue then?Londonirish wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 12:39
I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 15:10
Muttley wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 14:43Thanks for the insight and honesty, LondonIrish.Londonirish wrote: ↑20 Apr 2020, 12:39
I think thats exactly what it is, all travellers want to out better each other, with us its a man's world and thats who we would look up to our father so we'd go to work at a young age proper physical work and try and prove how strong we are. This gave the majority of young traveller boys an advantage. If some lacked in skill they made up in Strength and over power young boys but At the age of 16-18 when everyone is Mature it becomes a different story, you need the skill to go with the Power.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 03:37
George was a solid enough pro but a stamina issue raised its head when Ian Chantler, a right hard case from St Helens, really hurt him in the eighth and last round of their York Hall encounter in 1988, although Collins hung on to win on points. A year later came his 12-rounder with Gary Jacobs at the Albert Hall and Collins ran out of steam again and was dropped in the final round to lose for the first time as a pro. He had one more fight, against a peak Kirkland Laing, who gave him absolutely no chance.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 06:59
I remember Chantler against Nigel Benn in his murderous up and coming days. Nigel absolutely flattened him, Chantler was in with some good names like Watson, Kelly during his career
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 13:39
His brother Tony retired very young too. Not long after George.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 13:51
Tony got really bashed up by Andy Till. According to Andy Till's (badly written) book, the younger Collins was full of it before their fight.mercman wrote: ↑22 Apr 2020, 12:50Good performance really, taking Gary Jacobs the distance. I always rated Jacobs very highly. Laing stopped Collins in explosive fashion though and I can see why Collins called it a day after that.bennie wrote: ↑22 Apr 2020, 03:37 George was a solid enough pro but a stamina issue raised its head when Ian Chantler, a right hard case from St Helens, really hurt him in the eighth and last round of their York Hall encounter in 1988, although Collins hung on to win on points. A year later came his 12-rounder with Gary Jacobs at the Albert Hall and Collins ran out of steam again and was dropped in the final round to lose for the first time as a pro. He had one more fight, against a peak Kirkland Laing, who gave him absolutely no chance.
By the way, I always thought George's brother Tony was the more talented boxer, although he also came unstuck when he stepped up in class. The third brother, Ben, I don't recall seeing him fight, not sure how good he was.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 14:04
Tony was good from what I remember, just his chin was a bit suspect. He was a great one for talking himself up, too.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 17:59
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 18:05
That hair though...
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 18:06
Andy Till doubled up as a milkman if I remember rightly
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 18:20
From The Independent after the Till defeat:
BLOOD TIES are no less strong in defeat than in victory. The next fight at the York Hall involves a punishing defeat for Tony Collins, a handsome, half-Romany 22-year-old with a large, intimidating gypsy following. As the men file out afterwards, disconsolate and subdued, three generations of the Collins family are left at the back of the hall. Many are boxers themselves, or have been. But the two who seem to take Tony's defeat the hardest are women: his mother, Gill, and his grandmother, Louise.
Louise is muttering darkly, while her husband Benny shakes his head in disbelief. 'My grandson is definitely not on the scrap-heap,' says Louise in her deep, throaty voice, an index finger slowly wagging. 'Tony's not finished by a long chalk, put that in your newspaper.' She has watched generations of Collins men in the ring, but defeat is no easier to take. 'You feel it worse than what they do in a way because you know their pride's hurt.'
Gill is silent. 'I was in the toilets during the fight,' she explains later. 'I've spent hours shut in toilets, with the hand-driers and taps going to drown the noise - even hearing it is too much. I don't cry. I just feel sick. I can't really describe it. Even the thought of it upsets me. I don't like professional boxing, only amateur. I'd rather my sons did something else.'
Given the family's history, this seems unlikely. Louise has watched generations of Collins men in the ring. Her son, Tony's father, was an amateur title holder in the sixties. Her son-in-law fought John Conteh. Two of Tony's brothers, her grandsons, George and Benny, and two other grandsons are professional boxers. She knows what she's talking about.
The family live in Yateley in Hampshire. Tony lives at home with his parents, two younger sisters and one younger brother. Louise and Benny live in the next street, in a house that gleams and glitters with polished antique china on mantelpieces and in glass cabinets. Little sparkling chandeliers hang from the ceilings. They are delighted with the effect, it reminds them of a gypsy caravan, and they say they wished they had never had to live in a house. There are pictures of two of their boxer grandsons, Tony and George, with tiny pairs of gloves hanging from them.
'We're proper gypsies,' Louise explains, 'born in wagons. Not like the ones you see on TV.' Boxing, she says, is in their blood.
'It's a sport travellers like. My grandad used to get in the rings at the fairgrounds. I remember the black eyes. I was about six. I liked to watch. The winner picked up the money that was thrown in the ring. He was never beaten.
'I didn't mind him fighting,' she continues. 'I wouldn't take no sauce off anyone either. If a girl got arguing it might end up in a fight. They were pretty good.' She chuckles. 'I always gave them a hiding but I don't like to brag.' She pauses, straightening her apron. 'There was no hair-pulling, I gave punch for punch.' But Louise certainly doesn't think women should get in the ring. 'It's not ladylike,' she says.
BLOOD TIES are no less strong in defeat than in victory. The next fight at the York Hall involves a punishing defeat for Tony Collins, a handsome, half-Romany 22-year-old with a large, intimidating gypsy following. As the men file out afterwards, disconsolate and subdued, three generations of the Collins family are left at the back of the hall. Many are boxers themselves, or have been. But the two who seem to take Tony's defeat the hardest are women: his mother, Gill, and his grandmother, Louise.
Louise is muttering darkly, while her husband Benny shakes his head in disbelief. 'My grandson is definitely not on the scrap-heap,' says Louise in her deep, throaty voice, an index finger slowly wagging. 'Tony's not finished by a long chalk, put that in your newspaper.' She has watched generations of Collins men in the ring, but defeat is no easier to take. 'You feel it worse than what they do in a way because you know their pride's hurt.'
Gill is silent. 'I was in the toilets during the fight,' she explains later. 'I've spent hours shut in toilets, with the hand-driers and taps going to drown the noise - even hearing it is too much. I don't cry. I just feel sick. I can't really describe it. Even the thought of it upsets me. I don't like professional boxing, only amateur. I'd rather my sons did something else.'
Given the family's history, this seems unlikely. Louise has watched generations of Collins men in the ring. Her son, Tony's father, was an amateur title holder in the sixties. Her son-in-law fought John Conteh. Two of Tony's brothers, her grandsons, George and Benny, and two other grandsons are professional boxers. She knows what she's talking about.
The family live in Yateley in Hampshire. Tony lives at home with his parents, two younger sisters and one younger brother. Louise and Benny live in the next street, in a house that gleams and glitters with polished antique china on mantelpieces and in glass cabinets. Little sparkling chandeliers hang from the ceilings. They are delighted with the effect, it reminds them of a gypsy caravan, and they say they wished they had never had to live in a house. There are pictures of two of their boxer grandsons, Tony and George, with tiny pairs of gloves hanging from them.
'We're proper gypsies,' Louise explains, 'born in wagons. Not like the ones you see on TV.' Boxing, she says, is in their blood.
'It's a sport travellers like. My grandad used to get in the rings at the fairgrounds. I remember the black eyes. I was about six. I liked to watch. The winner picked up the money that was thrown in the ring. He was never beaten.
'I didn't mind him fighting,' she continues. 'I wouldn't take no sauce off anyone either. If a girl got arguing it might end up in a fight. They were pretty good.' She chuckles. 'I always gave them a hiding but I don't like to brag.' She pauses, straightening her apron. 'There was no hair-pulling, I gave punch for punch.' But Louise certainly doesn't think women should get in the ring. 'It's not ladylike,' she says.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 03:19
Andy Till, the hardest looking milkman you will ever see.
Definitely a make or break fight for young Tony Collins that one, and he lands an absolute howitzer of a right-hand in the first 30 seconds, and Till doesn’t even blink - at that point TC must now be thinking “oh crap”...
A young up and coming Herbie Hide taking pride of place centre ringside there.
Definitely a make or break fight for young Tony Collins that one, and he lands an absolute howitzer of a right-hand in the first 30 seconds, and Till doesn’t even blink - at that point TC must now be thinking “oh crap”...
A young up and coming Herbie Hide taking pride of place centre ringside there.
Re: George Collins (welterweight from the 1980s)
Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 04:13
mercman wrote: ↑22 Apr 2020, 12:50Good performance really, taking Gary Jacobs the distance. I always rated Jacobs very highly. Laing stopped Collins in explosive fashion though and I can see why Collins called it a day after that.bennie wrote: ↑22 Apr 2020, 03:37 George was a solid enough pro but a stamina issue raised its head when Ian Chantler, a right hard case from St Helens, really hurt him in the eighth and last round of their York Hall encounter in 1988, although Collins hung on to win on points. A year later came his 12-rounder with Gary Jacobs at the Albert Hall and Collins ran out of steam again and was dropped in the final round to lose for the first time as a pro. He had one more fight, against a peak Kirkland Laing, who gave him absolutely no chance.
By the way, I always thought George's brother Tony was the more talented boxer, although he also came unstuck when he stepped up in class. The third brother, Ben, I don't recall seeing him fight, not sure how good he was.
You're right. It was a fine effort by Collins against the talented Jacobs, who only pulled away in the last few rounds, and it's a shame that George was thrown in with the gifted Laing a fight later in November 1989, even though he was the house fighter in Reading where the Laing fight took place. Sadly, manager F rank Warren was shot two weeks beforehand and that didn't help George's chances but Laing was always going to be too good. Ironically, Laing would lose his British title to fellow Nottingham man Del Bryan, a man Collins had stopped in four rounds in 1986, dropping him three times in the process