BoxRec

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 10:55 The hall of fame is what it is - a hall of FAME.

Yes - Douglas should be in. He caused the biggest upset in boxing history against a guy who, at the time, was considered unbeatable.

The IBHOF did lose credibilty though when they inducted Rocky Balboa ... but, hey, some people do actually think he was real !

Jesus, that's the worst complaint about the hof. Rocky brought a ton of fans to the sport. I was one of them. Rocky and the 76 Olympics.

Leroy Niemen is in for a painting.

Balboa is in as a nonparticipant ... he made the most successful boxing movies ever. Who cares about nonparticipants!?!?!?

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 10:55 The hall of fame is what it is - a hall of FAME.

Yes - Douglas should be in. He caused the biggest upset in boxing history against a guy who, at the time, was considered unbeatable.

The IBHOF did lose credibilty though when they inducted Rocky Balboa ... but, hey, some people do actually think he was real !

Douglas is debatable. He was on the winning side of arguably boxing's biggest upset.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Balboa. Most sports have a HOF for non participants. Actors, writers, refs, etc.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 14:13 Balboa is in as a nonparticipant ... he made the most successful boxing movies ever. Who cares about nonparticipants!?!?!?

The people that get inducted into the Non participant wing always have a major contribution to the sport in some sorta way, and given how many fans the Rocky franchise created I don't mind Stallone being in it.

The Rocky movies do probably lead to some idiots being disappointed when they watch actual Boxing though, and realize that everybody doesn't block every punch with their face

Tony1244 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 15:21

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 10:55 The hall of fame is what it is - a hall of FAME.

Yes - Douglas should be in. He caused the biggest upset in boxing history against a guy who, at the time, was considered unbeatable.

The IBHOF did lose credibilty though when they inducted Rocky Balboa ... but, hey, some people do actually think he was real !

Douglas is debatable. He was on the winning side of arguably boxing's biggest upset.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Balboa. Most sports have a HOF for non participants. Actors, writers, refs, etc.

I don't think Douglas is debatable as a Hall of Famer. He'll always be remembered as the guy that scored the biggest upset in the history of Boxing. He earned that. He didn't earn the Hall of Fame.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 17:24

mjaco wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 20:39

I'll bite, which three? Depends on what we're calling a "great" win I suppose.

Willard, Braddock, and he who shall not be named. If you really pushed it, I guess you count Willard's and Braddock's title victories. They certainly don't equal Douglas beating Tyson. Braddock's and Willard's best other wins aren't as good as Douglas' best other wins either.

As I said, I suppose it depends on your definition of a "great" win. Willard and Braddock's title wins, by some standards (not necessarily mine) would go down as great wins. On the other hand, if you want to nitpick, you could argue the Ali that Norton beat in the 1970s was not the same Ali of the 1960s so that wasn't a "great" win. You could even argue the Tyson who lost to Douglas was not the same Tyson we saw just one year earlier. That just underscores my point that, in any sport, you can not base a judgment of career "greatness" on a single performance. There are always fighters, and athletes of all types, who had a single moment when it all came together for them and they had one great night. That does not mean they were great fighters or had great careers. Greatness, at least to me, has to include some measure of longevity.

Also, people seem to be conflating the word "fame" in the title "hall of fame" with the actual purpose of any hall of fame. Take a look at the IBHOF mission statement and it clearly says its mission is to "chronicle the achievements of those who excelled..." I take that to mean fighters who achieved a certain level of excellence, not just those who garnered a bit of notoriety. If you were just to base admission on "fame" fighters like Butterbean and Two-Ton Tony Galento would be under consideration. So there has to be a certain base level of excellence for admission. The problem is that the IBHOF has already set a precedent of placing that bar a little low in many estimations, thus allowing fighters like Douglas into the debate.

The Boxrec hall of fame is, at least to my way of thinking, a far better standard for greatness and more in line with what a hall of fame should be (BTW is voting for that going to open up again this year, Ambling Alp? I asked this question in the Boxrec HOF thread but never got a response). However, I understand the reasons why the IBHOF has gone the way they have. They're trying to keep their doors open and they need people to show up there. Their induction weekend is the one time of the year they draw a decent crowd and if there was only a single fighter being inducted, one who's been dead for 60 years, they simply wouldn't get anyone to come. Still, as a purist I'd like to see more exclusivity. But it's not going to happen.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 15:29

Tony1244 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 15:21

Douglas is debatable. He was on the winning side of arguably boxing's biggest upset.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Balboa. Most sports have a HOF for non participants. Actors, writers, refs, etc.

I don't think Douglas is debatable as a Hall of Famer. He'll always be remembered as the guy that scored the biggest upset in the history of Boxing. He earned that. He didn't earn the Hall of Fame.

It would be an understatement for me to say I don't have a very strong opinion on it.

I know we're not supposed to compare, but Isn't Jerry Quarry in the HOF?

Tony1244 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 15:49

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 15:29

I don't think Douglas is debatable as a Hall of Famer. He'll always be remembered as the guy that scored the biggest upset in the history of Boxing. He earned that. He didn't earn the Hall of Fame.

It would be an understatement for me to say I don't have a very strong opinion on it.

I know we're not supposed to compare, but Isn't Jerry Quarry in the HOF?

I don't think so, but let me whip out my book, and look real quick.

Ok...No he's not. Just verified it.

In fact the only Q name in the Hall of Fame is Dwight Muhammad Qawi (at least in the modern participant era) After that it goes to the R's. (it's in alphabetical order in the book)

For anyone who needs to refresh their memory on who is currently in: http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/induct ... index.html

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 14:13 Balboa is in as a nonparticipant ... he made the most successful boxing movies ever. Who cares about nonparticipants!?!?!?

Too many people that have no idea about that section. Never heard anyone complain about the Ali/Frazier painter. Lol, I had a replica of that, bad ass.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 16:21

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 14:13 Balboa is in as a nonparticipant ... he made the most successful boxing movies ever. Who cares about nonparticipants!?!?!?

Too many people that have no idea about that section. Never heard anyone complain about the Ali/Frazier painter. Lol, I had a replica of that, bad ass.

Neiman even crosses over into the Rocky films. He's actually in one of the movies, and the painting of Rocky and Creed fighting when the credits roll in Rocky III is Neiman.

I'm sure you knew that already Saad, but I was just putting this out there for a few people that might not.

Yes sir, it seems a lot of people think Stallone walked in with holyfield and Marquez as a real fighter.