BoxRec

How has this conversation gone on for so long with only a brief mention of Cus D'Amato? This man was my inspiration to study the science of the sport, and was living proof that you don't have to fight personally to be a great coach. As long as you have a deep understanding of what it means to be a fighter on the inside, and can relay that effectively through techniques that most benefits the fighter, you can be a great coach. When I say techniques, I mean that in terms of physical boxing prowess progression, and just as much mental techniques as well and learning how to best get to your fighter.

A lot of coaching is finding the right person that has the appropriate drive to be a fighter, and then a champion. For example, Ray Arcel had 20 champions on his resume as a coach (at least worked with 20, not trained them all from the ground up), and I would attribute that large quantity to the fact that he was such a popular trainer and so many great fighters actively sought him out. On the other hand, Cus D'Amato was arguably a better coach, and had WAY less champions. This is only because he was more about helping boys that were running their lives into the ground, and fighting to make the boxing world more fair to their fighters, than actively looking for champions, even though that was his dream. Anyways, Cus trained tons of kids, but only stumbled across a couple that had the drive and trust in Cus all the others couldn't match, Tyson and Patterson.

Long story short, yes you can train without fighting. But it would be very rare to find someone that can understand and relay what is needed without at least sparring and training themselves.

919852 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 11:35How has this conversation gone on for so long with only a brief mention of Cus D'Amato?

According to his Wikipedia page, Cus D'Amato briefly competed in the amateurs.

According to Tim Witherspoon, Aaron Snowell never boxed and is a terrific trainer. Witherspoon explained that Snowell is so good because he was taught to train by former pro, Slim Robinson.

Noxy wrote: ↑15 May 2020, 10:57 I don’t think Enzo boxed.

No he didn’t. Enzo Calzaghes achievements were simply amazing too. He had 4 world champions all around the same era from a tiny shack in the Middle of nowhere in the south Wales valleys.

Joe
Nathan Cleverly
Enzo Maccarineli
Gavin Rees

Gary Locket fought for a world title against Pavlik
Bradley Price was British champion too

Noxy wrote: ↑15 May 2020, 13:24

goose 5 wrote: ↑15 May 2020, 13:19 But can a man who has never boxed teach someone how to box ?

I wouldn’t have thought so but the evidence appears to suggest otherwise. I‘m sure, for example, Enzo didn’t box. Dundee, a top trainer, had a few amateur fights. He must have gained his skills outside the ropes.

Dundee himself was taken under the wing of a great trainer IIRC Charlie Goldman or someone similar.
I think this may be the most important thing. Having a great trainer mentor you as either a fighter or as a trainer below them.

Virgil Hunter. Virgil trained Andre Ward, Amir Khan in the latter part of his career, and he is training two very talented boxers in Souleymane Cissohko and Tony Yoka.

Well, the truth is this. It did not a top trainer to train George Foreman. He was a bully, a brute , just hand him a pair of gloves, It did not take a top trainer to bring forth most come forward fighters. Look at Deontay Wilder, a two year old could have trained him, why because these fighters figured out what worked for them skills not required in their cases.

sure, a toad with a brain injury could train the likes of inoue, crawford, etc to win world titles.........but good trainers do get more out of their fighters

Terry Lawless.

Enzo Calzaghe, famously.

bennie wrote: ↑23 Dec 2022, 09:56 Terry Lawless.

Terry Lawless was a fairly awful trainer.

Until Brendan Ingle and Enzo Calzaghe appeared British trainers didn't seem to understand that a boxing ring can be a large space if you know how to use it.

Sean O’hagan has never boxed amateur or pro, Josh Warrington dad, he’s also doing a great job with Maxi Hughes.

The late Dean Powell, who was a trainer, matchmaker and excellent all round boxing person.
.
Having the knowledge and being able to communicate it in a way that brings out the best in people is a totally different skill to fighting.

Always said ,, you don't wake up one morning and say , I know i'll be a boxer tonight you have to learn , and the same goes for trainers ,, they have to learn from others maybee the others boxed does'nt matter has long has that trainer is open minded does learn and then communicates it well , also a good trainer has what i would call the eye ,, the ability to spot a mistake within seconds , the instinct to know the boxer is not doing it correct ,,, and you get this from learning and enthusiasm . One of my old trainers. He would be talking or watching the sparring with his back to the bags , and just shout , pick it up , your not working hard enough without even looking ,,, you would laugh and ask him how do you know ,, his answer was , i can hear the bag .

He taught body punching extremly well , and always on pads you had to hit him to the body not the pad ,, he'd say no point having you hit an arm or hand thats teaching the wrong foot placement , left hooks he wanted on his jaw , straight punches he wanted on his nose , don't worry i'm calling them i'll catch them , he relied on his own handspeed to catch punches ,, make it has close to the real thing has possible he would say ,, never ever did he stand still on a square and let you hit him he would move all around and make you find your own range , he was brilliant ,, guy could read a fight like nobody else i'd seen .

Came has a real suprise to me when he told me he had never had a fight ameteur or pro ,, said he went to a gym to take his son , which went from watching to helping , to coaching said he spent years watching others and helping other trainers , being more observant because he knew he did'nt have the pratical experience ,, guy trained a lot of good boxers has well

Ray Arcel