BoxRec

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:41

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:23 He wouldn't land a thing on Ali.

It's not a problem to pick a fighter over another one, but to go to such extremities like "wouldn't land a thing" is quite dumb in a discussion about athletes of such high level.

You wonder why you get laughed at

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:58

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:41

It's not a problem to pick a fighter over another one, but to go to such extremities like "wouldn't land a thing" is quite dumb in a discussion about athletes of such high level.

You wonder why you get laughed at

Don't be so upset, bruh.

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:00

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:58
You wonder why you get laughed at

Don't be so upset, bruh.

Sound advice coming from a 'man' that argues with emoticons.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:05

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:00

Don't be so upset, bruh.

Sound advice coming from a 'man' that argues with emoticons.

You do that all the time dude

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:06

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:05

Sound advice coming from a 'man' that argues with emoticons.

You do that all the time dude

No I don't.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:05

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 13:00

Don't be so upset, bruh.

Sound advice coming from a 'man' that argues with emoticons.

Yeah, I shouldn't give advices to you, for this we need a psychiatrist.

Controversial wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 05:01

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 00:01 Ali was 6' 4" and weighed about the same as Wilder
with infinitely better skills and enough punching power
to take out 60% of his opponents including Foreman.
He could easily grab a belt now in his prime and hold
it with no problem.
You can't hit what you can't see.

Ali wasn't that tall, he was around 6' 2.5"
All I would say is Ali more often than not was the bigger man, in the majority of his fights he held the weight advantage and/or height and reach advantage. People talk about the monster Foreman but he was only 3lbs heavier than Ali and around the same height.

Fine, he was 6' 3" (I checked several places). What is it with you guys and height. Is Fury really 6' 9" ???
Jez, get a hobby other than nit picking.
Ali could have easily fought at 225 and with a huge advantage in skills would beat everybody in the top ten right now.
he was almost impossible to hit and if you did he had a rock solid chin. He would jab the crap out of anybody we got
now. That doesn't make them bad but not as good as Ali.

Are the people who voted 9, 10, or 11 willing to identify themselves?

Please do...........

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:02

Controversial wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 05:01

Ali wasn't that tall, he was around 6' 2.5"
All I would say is Ali more often than not was the bigger man, in the majority of his fights he held the weight advantage and/or height and reach advantage. People talk about the monster Foreman but he was only 3lbs heavier than Ali and around the same height.

Fine, he was 6' 3" (I checked several places). What is it with you guys and height. Is Fury really 6' 9" ???
Jez, get a hobby other than nit picking.
Ali could have easily fought at 225 and with a huge advantage in skills would beat everybody in the top ten right now.
he was almost impossible to hit and if you did he had a rock solid chin. He would jab the crap out of anybody we got
now. That doesn't make them bad but not as good as Ali.

I didn't say Ali wouldn't be successful. All I said was in a lot of his fights he often had a physical advantage, as well as the advantage in speed and ability. Same as Foreman, lots of his opponents in his first career were under 200lbs. Size and weight don't always make a difference but it can when your opponent can fight too.

ValMar wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:16 Where is EO ? He might enlighten the majority of us with his lists of the average weight of Ali's opponents (before 1967).

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:50

ValMar wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 12:16 Where is EO ? He might enlighten the majority of us with his lists of the average weight of Ali's opponents (before 1967).

Or the 11 pages of super middleweights dehydrating for the scales and then putting the weight back on to somehow prove Andy Ruiz' superiority over Liston. .

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:02

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:50

Or the 11 pages of super middleweights dehydrating for the scales and then putting the weight back on to somehow prove Andy Ruiz' superiority over Liston. .

And the list goes on.

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:06

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:02

Or the 11 pages of super middleweights dehydrating for the scales and then putting the weight back on to somehow prove Andy Ruiz' superiority over Liston. .

And the list goes on.

Lol EO's got dudes hooked

The only one I see where the height difference matters is Fury because he's an awkward individual and knows how to use that, with more fluidity than someone like WK. I can't see Joshua outboxing or landing on prime Ali and Wilder, if he did land, we're possibly talking like Fury, he gets back up, he had that kind of recuperative power (and Wilder would struggle to land that clean).

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:05 Are the people who voted 9, 10, or 11 willing to identify themselves?

Please do...........

Sports develop over time. Look at the world cup in football from the 80s for example. Its painfully slow to watch compared to todays football.

Sure Ali is a HW-legend, same with Marciano, but they wouldnt stand a chance against the top heavyweight boxers today.

asmund wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:56

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:05 Are the people who voted 9, 10, or 11 willing to identify themselves?

Please do...........

Sports develop over time. Look at the world cup in football from the 80s for example. Its painfully slow to watch compared to todays football.

Sure Ali is a HW-legend, same with Marciano, but they wouldnt stand a chance against the top heavyweight boxers today.

Heavyweight boxing today is as you described 80's soccer. Painfully slow, Ali was not.

asmund wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:56

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:05 Are the people who voted 9, 10, or 11 willing to identify themselves?

Please do...........

Sports develop over time. Look at the world cup in football from the 80s for example. Its painfully slow to watch compared to todays football.

Sure Ali is a HW-legend, same with Marciano, but they wouldnt stand a chance against the top heavyweight boxers today.

Are you serious ?

asmund wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:56

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:05 Are the people who voted 9, 10, or 11 willing to identify themselves?

Please do...........

Sports develop over time. Look at the world cup in football from the 80s for example. Its painfully slow to watch compared to todays football.

Sure Ali is a HW-legend, same with Marciano, but they wouldnt stand a chance against the top heavyweight boxers today.

The key word is "watch." Watch Ali's hand and foot speed. A far smaller % of people are boxing today and the ones that are boxing are taking less chances in the ring. Boxing is an exception to the rule.

Boxing is booming in some places, not every place has the Murican drought. The last years there's been as many fights happening as for a long time

Though I would certainly agree HWs havent advanced really but for size. Just one example, you see way less hws combo punching and mixing up shots these days

The fact David Haye could be competitive in recent times shows that Ali wouldn't have been swamped or out of his era/depth today. Yes Haye hits harder but he doesn't have a better chin, speed, skills, movement, reach etc. I'm sticking with the fact the only one who knows how to or could potentially make his extra height/weight count is Fury and he's very much an oddity.

I voted Ali 6-8 because yes he was great but he made mistakes. He got hit especially to the body. Nostalgia is a great thing but it also blinds you. Tyson Fury would beat him in my opinion. AJ could also beat him. Usyk also and Ruiz juniors good version also
Thats my opinion. Ali fans are like bruce lee fans. They are not mythic heroes who are unbeatable. This "nobody could land a shot" is stupid because it did happen even in his prime. Big part of his condition at the end of his life.

Winter king wrote: ↑17 Jun 2020, 04:56 Ali fans are like bruce lee fans. They are not mythic heroes who are unbeatable. This "nobody could land a shot" is stupid because it did happen even in his prime. Big part of his condition at the end of his life.

That's true.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 20:03

asmund wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:56

Sports develop over time. Look at the world cup in football from the 80s for example. Its painfully slow to watch compared to todays football.

Sure Ali is a HW-legend, same with Marciano, but they wouldnt stand a chance against the top heavyweight boxers today.

The key word is "watch." Watch Ali's hand and foot speed. A far smaller % of people are boxing today and the ones that are boxing are taking less chances in the ring. Boxing is an exception to the rule.

Yes. Let's not also forget how hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Before the Clay fight Liston was seen as a sure thing. Top boxing writers didn't want to waste their time covering the fight, the Beatles wanted to be seen and photographed with Liston and not Clay, and felt "That stupid wanker is going to get knocked out in the first round."
Many others expected Clay to land in hospital, etc etc.

So were they all suffering from a form of mass delusion? I'd say so. Even though the second fight failed to clear this prefixed idea completely, it was obvious that Sonny was no longer seen in the same way.

Before the Douglas fight, Tyson was a near mythical monster. Afterwards the spell was broken and all opponents began to gain some confidence.

Before the Ruiz fight, AJ was seen by many as the man who would unify the division. Now it's not so clear.

Before the Fury fight, Wilder was seen as to be on a roll, finally beginning to convince his many doubters. Afterwards it wasn't so clear. The rematch has brought all those doubts back, and many are writing him off once more.

Exactly how the future will see Deontay Wilder, and Fury too, will depend upon what happens when they meet again. Some fans will need to re-evaluate and reconsider their views on the two men, whilst others won't. What we know so far is extremely limited due to the poor unconvincing resume of both men, and lingering drug suspicions over one of them.

At least with those whose careers are over seismic re-evaluations are far less likely. But not always.

Just what boxing fans today are supposed to make of the fact that Joe Frazier may have spent his entire pro career with a left eye that would be declared legally blind is not clear.

It seems as if the vast majority of us agree that Ali would be number 1 today, and going by the boxers themselves, there doesn't seem to be many arguments.

.