BoxRec

stevec@france wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 12:45 yeah and I am laughing off larrys suggestion he would have beaten aj

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Let’s make it a 15 rounder too like Holmes fought most of his championship career!

- Boys, gonna keep it short and sweet for the "challenged" among you.

Tubby Lar who started skinny was never a ranked fighter when Ali, Joe, and Big George were active, and he's the same age as George.

His record against standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6 counting the Nielson IBO title.

A single belt holder in a multi belt era.

Big Josh has proven to be a record setting unified champ with his own mint.

Get your minders to do the math for you.

Butterbean

AJ would have cleaned his clock.

Say it with me.

Athletes get better with every generation

Holmes wouldn't last six rounds, AJ is bigger, stronger, faster, better trained and better conditioned than anyone from his era. Fact.

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 09:25 AJ would have cleaned his clock.

Say it with me.

Athletes get better with every generation

Holmes wouldn't last six rounds, AJ is bigger, stronger, faster, better trained and better conditioned than anyone from his era. Fact.

Yeh right lets see how many defeats Joshua has in the same time scale to when Holmes lost to Tyson ( 15 years )

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 20:52 - Boys, gonna keep it short and sweet for the "challenged" among you.

Tubby Lar who started skinny was never a ranked fighter when Ali, Joe, and Big George were active, and he's the same age as George.

His record against standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6 counting the Nielson IBO title.

A single belt holder in a multi belt era.

Big Josh has proven to be a record setting unified champ with his own mint.

Get your minders to do the math for you.

Butterbean

A peak Tyson ko'd an inactive 38 year old holmes who has admitted he fought for the cash
A peak Joshua got ko'd by a tub of lard who had lost to the only decent opponent he faced-Parker,who has since lost again.

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 09:25 AJ would have cleaned his clock.

Say it with me.

Athletes get better with every generation

Holmes wouldn't last six rounds, AJ is bigger, stronger, faster, better trained and better conditioned than anyone from his era. Fact.

So you think Canelo beats Hagler or Crawford beats a Ray Leonard?

Duran1970 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 10:26

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 09:25 AJ would have cleaned his clock.

Say it with me.

Athletes get better with every generation

Holmes wouldn't last six rounds, AJ is bigger, stronger, faster, better trained and better conditioned than anyone from his era. Fact.

So you think Canelo beats Hagler or Crawford beats a Ray Leonard?

if they all get better with every generation then Chavez,Hagler,Duran,Leonard,Ali,Foremen and all the other great fighters couldn't beat anyone around now ? nothing to do with skills,chin,stamina,ringcraft=purely on conditioning

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 09:41

Thomastearns wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 06:55

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 05:05 everything Holmes is really good at, Joshua is pretty poor at.

I'd say so. Anthony Joshua's success has been largely down to his moderate boxing ability and tremendous power. He had begun increasing his size and power but that backfired spectacularly.

As a pure boxer he's still learning. His next fight will tell us just how much he's learnt.

Larry Holmes had the better stamina, chin and recovery powers.

Holmes also had by far the better boxing education. Just imagine an Anthony Joshua after years of training with the more orthodox 1970s version of Ali, (the 60s version was a one-off and is unlikely to be replicated).

Lack of high level experience can be disastrous as Joshua v Ruiz 1 demonstrated. It's hard to imagine Larry Holmes ever looking so lost and confused in a boxing ring.

Joshua wasn't facing a heavyweight Sugar Ray Leonard that day but he acted like he was. Hopefully that's the last Amir Khan impersonation we will see from AJ.

But who knows what the future holds? Maybe Joshua will go on to defeat Fury and Wilder or maybe a new star will emerge?

I'm not sure Pulev will be the man to show us anything,that's one fight I have almost no interest in.

We often say that, but you know we will. We always do.

Especially when it's AJ.

Especially when Pulev will now have a blueprint of how to defeat AJ and a growing list of his weaknesses. Kubrat Pulev may be an outsider, but he'll be an outsider with a clear plan.

Besides, we'll watch because AJ always brings the action - nearly. The only damp squibs I recall were the Parker and Ruiz 2 fights. Relatively speaking.

I still remember Johnny Nelson's comments aimed at Roy Jones Jr. Particularly the quips about the 2 halves of Jones' career. The glorious first half/ and the second once the blueprint to beat him had been found, and also how he knew of many boxers more talented than Jones Jr back at his gym!

Great stuff. It must have been one hell of a gym up there in Sheffield.

In any case, Larry Holmes has already proven it, time and time again. Unbeaten in 48 fights til almost 36 years old, with a formidable 66 -6 record. Joshua meanwhile at 30 years old stands with a 23-1 record without having faced his 2 toughest rivals.

Everything still left to prove.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but who were Holmes' biggest rivals and what would be considered his best/most impressive wins?

Thomastearns wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 10:52

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 09:41

Thomastearns wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 06:55


I'd say so. Anthony Joshua's success has been largely down to his moderate boxing ability and tremendous power. He had begun increasing his size and power but that backfired spectacularly.

As a pure boxer he's still learning. His next fight will tell us just how much he's learnt.

Larry Holmes had the better stamina, chin and recovery powers.

Holmes also had by far the better boxing education. Just imagine an Anthony Joshua after years of training with the more orthodox 1970s version of Ali, (the 60s version was a one-off and is unlikely to be replicated).

Lack of high level experience can be disastrous as Joshua v Ruiz 1 demonstrated. It's hard to imagine Larry Holmes ever looking so lost and confused in a boxing ring.

Joshua wasn't facing a heavyweight Sugar Ray Leonard that day but he acted like he was. Hopefully that's the last Amir Khan impersonation we will see from AJ.

But who knows what the future holds? Maybe Joshua will go on to defeat Fury and Wilder or maybe a new star will emerge?

I'm not sure Pulev will be the man to show us anything,that's one fight I have almost no interest in.

We often say that, but you know we will. We always do.

Especially when it's AJ.

Especially when Pulev will now have a blueprint of how to defeat AJ and a growing list of his weaknesses. Kubrat Pulev may be an outsider, but he'll be an outsider with a clear plan.

Besides, we'll watch because AJ always brings the action - nearly. The only damp squibs I recall were the Parker and Ruiz 2 fights. Relatively speaking.

I still remember Johnny Nelson's comments aimed at Roy Jones Jr. Particularly the quips about the 2 halves of Jones' career. The glorious first half/ and the second once the blueprint to beat him had been found, and also how he knew of many boxers more talented than Jones Jr back at his gym!

Great stuff. It must have been one hell of a gym up there in Sheffield.

In any case, Larry Holmes has already proven it, time and time again. Unbeaten in 48 fights til almost 36 years old, with a formidable 66 -6 record. Joshua meanwhile at 30 years old stands with a 23-1 record without having faced his 2 toughest rivals.

Everything still left to prove.

Yes you are correct,I will watch it,can't help myself.

The Gratest wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 11:14 Just playing devil's advocate here, but who were Holmes' biggest rivals and what would be considered his best/most impressive wins?

Is Norton his best win?

There’s some answers on here

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=221515&hilit=Holmes ... 7#p5082237

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 11:54

The Gratest wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 11:14 Just playing devil's advocate here, but who were Holmes' biggest rivals and what would be considered his best/most impressive wins?

Is Norton his best win?

There’s some answers on here

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=221515&hilit=Holmes ... 7#p5082237

The Gerry Cooney fight was probably his biggest and best win.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 11:54

The Gratest wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 11:14 Just playing devil's advocate here, but who were Holmes' biggest rivals and what would be considered his best/most impressive wins?

Is Norton his best win?

There’s some answers on here

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=221515&hilit=Holmes ... 7#p5082237

thanks

How good were Norton and Cooney? Would you see them beating AJ?
Cooney appeared to have a somewhat built up record, the most impressive names were deemed past it by the time he beat them.
Norton could give anyone a hard fight but faltered against the bigger punchers (Shavers, Foreman, Cooney although past it by them).
I'd say the most talented fighter in Holmes win column is Tim Witherspoon, although he did just have 15 fights when they clashed, so that negates it a bit.

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 15:26

stevec@france wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 12:45 yeah and I am laughing off larrys suggestion he would have beaten aj

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Power beats reach my friend !

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 15:26

stevec@france wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 12:45 yeah and I am laughing off larrys suggestion he would have beaten aj

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Power beats reach my friend !

everytime ? Fury Wlad ? Holmes Shavers ? Frazier Ali ? etc etc

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Jul 2020, 06:25

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Jul 2020, 05:49

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Jul 2020, 05:25 Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard fan of AJ’s, because I feel that Tyson Fury is a country mile ahead of him in terms of talent and I was also happy to see him lose against Ruiz Jr., but I do appreciate how quickly Joshua’s career has progressed in such a short timeframe.

He deserves kudos for that.

I'm not trying to desecrate Joshua's achievements, but he was promoted too good all the way. Since he was awarded a hometown decision in the Olympic final and got signed by Eddie, he was efficiently lead to the championship bout. No other current top boxer had such good promotion.

I agree, AJ benefited from being promoted excellently. He received a lot of hype and praise, during a time when he was only a novice wearing an alphabet title.

The thing is though... he's the real deal. If Fury hadn't beat Wilder and Klitschko, he'd have the best resume out there.

And you can't accomplish that sort feat without fighting the fights. And let's face it, barring one bump in the road, he's shown continual signs of improvement throughout his career.

Until Fury fight Joshua, this venture time line is unproven

Fury beat a 39 year old Klitschko, and a Wilder, who history will show was a flawed puncher. His best third, win, you cn tell me.

Joshua seems more proven,

Once they meet only then will a post Wlad King be crowned.

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 13:31

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 15:26

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Power beats reach my friend !

everytime ? Fury Wlad ? Holmes Shavers ? Frazier Ali ? etc etc

Didn’t Fury have a longer reach than Wlad?

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 14:10

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 13:31

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

Power beats reach my friend !

everytime ? Fury Wlad ? Holmes Shavers ? Frazier Ali ? etc etc

Didn’t Fury have a longer reach than Wlad?

That's what i'm saying,reach and skills beat power.

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 14:11

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 14:10

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 13:31

everytime ? Fury Wlad ? Holmes Shavers ? Frazier Ali ? etc etc

Didn’t Fury have a longer reach than Wlad?

That's what i'm saying,reach and skills beat power.

Oh yeh, I forgot which way you were referring too.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 10:52

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 09:41

Thomastearns wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 06:55


I'd say so. Anthony Joshua's success has been largely down to his moderate boxing ability and tremendous power. He had begun increasing his size and power but that backfired spectacularly.

As a pure boxer he's still learning. His next fight will tell us just how much he's learnt.

Larry Holmes had the better stamina, chin and recovery powers.

Holmes also had by far the better boxing education. Just imagine an Anthony Joshua after years of training with the more orthodox 1970s version of Ali, (the 60s version was a one-off and is unlikely to be replicated).

Lack of high level experience can be disastrous as Joshua v Ruiz 1 demonstrated. It's hard to imagine Larry Holmes ever looking so lost and confused in a boxing ring.

Joshua wasn't facing a heavyweight Sugar Ray Leonard that day but he acted like he was. Hopefully that's the last Amir Khan impersonation we will see from AJ.

But who knows what the future holds? Maybe Joshua will go on to defeat Fury and Wilder or maybe a new star will emerge?

I'm not sure Pulev will be the man to show us anything,that's one fight I have almost no interest in.

We often say that, but you know we will. We always do.

Especially when it's AJ.

Especially when Pulev will now have a blueprint of how to defeat AJ and a growing list of his weaknesses. Kubrat Pulev may be an outsider, but he'll be an outsider with a clear plan

I don't see the Ruiz defeat of AJ as providing a blueprint of how to defeat AJ. Unless Pulev plans to allow AJ to crash him to the canvas with a combo and then try to catch him when he opens up and gets careless when attempting to finish him? Too much risk with that.

Ruiz's style is also completely different to Pulev. Ruiz's success, where the main damage was done, was with short, sharp combos on the inside. His inside work and handspeed allowed him to beat Joshua to the punch up close. Pulev isn't an inside fighter, he works well off a decent jab but always on the outside, whilst leaving himself quite open. Pulev is too long in the tooth to suddenly turn himself into an inside combo puncher. I can see him having a degree of success with his jab, maybe even marking up Joshua, but lacks the power to truly hurt Joshua and, with his own questionable defence, will end up getting bounced off the canvas several times ala the Wlad fight.

I also don't see the Ruiz defeat as giving any indication of how Fury would beat Joshua. Fury's inside work is more leaning on with small, annoying digs to rough up and tire an opponent. I doubt he'll employ the same tactics he did in the Wilder rematch against Joshua. Wilder is severely lacking in boxing skills, he is basically a so-so jab with a thunderous right hand. It took a brave man in Fury to go in there and take it to Wilder, but in doing so he managed to negate Wilder's long straight right and overwhelmed him with physical strength as well. He'd be matched physically by Joshua, who also has a better inside game in comparison to Wilder. I believe Fury would go back to utilising his outside boxing skills, as per the first Wilder fight, to try to beat Joshua.

Ruiz exposed a suspected fragility in Joshua. However, that defeat could be the best thing to have happened to Joshua. He can't always just go in there and blast opponents out once he has them hurt. It was a slap in the face wake up call and a certain boxing self-awareness check that will probably do more help than harm in the long run.

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 15:26

stevec@france wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 12:45 yeah and I am laughing off larrys suggestion he would have beaten aj

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Power beats reach my friend !

Stop it.

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 20:40

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

bigjack wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 15:26

Very similar reach means Holmes's jab would be smashing into Joshuas face all night.

Power beats reach my friend !

Stop it.

In a matchup of skill where one guy is bringing a full arsenal, and refined skill and one guy is bringing a lot of power and size. I'd go with the guy with the full arsenal and skill.

Larry wasn't exactly tiny anyway. He was 6'3 or 6'2 and wasn't feather fisted. He'd be peppering Joshua with his jab constantly, and would be catching him with power shots more and more as the fight went on.

Especially if Joshua showed fatigue, which he has been known to do.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 20:51

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 20:40

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 12:58

Power beats reach my friend !

Stop it.

In a matchup of skill where one guy is bringing a full arsenal, and refined skill and one guy is bringing a lot of power and size. I'd go with the guy with the full arsenal and skill.

Larry wasn't exactly tiny anyway. He was 6'3 or 6'2 and wasn't feather fisted. He'd be peppering Joshua with his jab constantly, and would be catching him with power shots more and more as the fight went on.

Especially if Joshua showed fatigue, which he has been known to do.

Someone who know's what they are talking about

I laugh off the suggestions too. Holmes would've boxed Joshua's head off and stopped him. Heck I'd pick Frank Bruno to beat Joshua. Holmes would have a tougher time with Fury but would get a UD victory.