Tell me. What deficiencies get exposed at a lower weight class for Joe Louis? Wasn't he a complete enough boxer to be top 10 all time?
If Joe ain't all time Top 10 P4P, he's just outside of it. Like 11 or 12 or something.
He was an absolutely masterful offensive fighter, and one of the best Combination punchers ever at Heavyweight or indeed in Boxing period.
He is borderline Top 10. If you had to nitpick, you could point out the loss to Schmeling, almost losing to Conn. But there is a ton on the positive side. He was a great combination puncher. Was a very accurate puncher as well; that is a facet of the sport that is very underrated.
Always thought it was silly to dismiss heavyweight just because he is a heavyweight. We talk about heavyweights the vast majority of the time. Then suddenly they get dismissed out of hand by some people. It's silly.
Louis and Ali had as much talent, smarts and heart as just about anyone.
littlepug wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:34
I can’t see any Heavyweights cracking the top ten as there’s too many better fighters in lower divisions, I’d pop Fitzsimmons in there but he’s not really a heavyweight, Leonard slots in around 7 for me and probably make room for May and Pac as well.
Tell me. What deficiencies get exposed at a lower weight class for Joe Louis? Wasn't he a complete enough boxer to be top 10 all time?
Yeah Louis was great, my no2 heavyweight of all time, skill set and longevity is a big plus but the names in his win list (some good) isn’t top 10 P4P worthy IMO
littlepug wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:34
I can’t see any Heavyweights cracking the top ten as there’s too many better fighters in lower divisions, I’d pop Fitzsimmons in there but he’s not really a heavyweight, Leonard slots in around 7 for me and probably make room for May and Pac as well.
Tell me. What deficiencies get exposed at a lower weight class for Joe Louis? Wasn't he a complete enough boxer to be top 10 all time?
Yeah Louis was great, my no2 heavyweight of all time, skill set and longevity is a big plus but the names in his win list (some good) isn’t top 10 P4P worthy IMO
A major problem with heavyweight is the horrendous matchmaking. I don't think we can evaluate eras very well if the top guys are not willing to face each other.
Tell me. What deficiencies get exposed at a lower weight class for Joe Louis? Wasn't he a complete enough boxer to be top 10 all time?
Yeah Louis was great, my no2 heavyweight of all time, skill set and longevity is a big plus but the names in his win list (some good) isn’t top 10 P4P worthy IMO
littlepug wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:34
I can’t see any Heavyweights cracking the top ten as there’s too many better fighters in lower divisions, I’d pop Fitzsimmons in there but he’s not really a heavyweight, Leonard slots in around 7 for me and probably make room for May and Pac as well.
Tell me. What deficiencies get exposed at a lower weight class for Joe Louis? Wasn't he a complete enough boxer to be top 10 all time?
Yeah Louis was great, my no2 heavyweight of all time, skill set and longevity is a big plus but the names in his win list (some good) isn’t top 10 P4P worthy IMO
Reasonable, but his resume is better than Willie pep's.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2020, 13:19
That is something that would surprise some people if they actually compared them.
Myself included, it's only the last 10 years or so I realized I was rating Willie outside of my own guidelines of resume only. He's much more suited top 30 than top 5. Wilde is even crazier.
He does have the win over Saddler, which is huge. However, after that there is a steep drop off. The only other great fighter he ever beat was Manuel Ortiz. He did have a lot of wins over good fighters and was very consistent.
If comparing him to Joe louis for example, the Saddler win was better than any of Louis's. However Louis's had wins over the five previous champions as well as Walcott. Those wins top easily top Peps wins over Chalky Wright, Sal Bartola etc.
Pep really needed to have more huge wins. The place where he could have done that was the the lightweight division which was very strong in those years. He fought Angott, but lost a close decision. A win over Angott or say Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery or Ike Williams would have really helped Pep's case.
Obviously this is nitpicking. However, if a guy is going to be considered to be in the Top 10, you have to do that.
to some degree, you have to go by the eye test, (assuming that there is enough to go on). Watching Pep, it's obvious that he was a great fighter.
I think Louis is right on the borderline for Top 10, and Pep is a just a bit farther back.
