If Benn had fought Graham in 1990

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 08:52

For starters Kessler would have wiped the floor with Simms and Williams, and would have beaten, possibly stopped Brewer.

Woodhall was better than Simms and Williams too. Bika turned out to be better than first thought as well.

There's been too much of a revisionist view on Lacy as well, just because Joe annihilated him.

That's 4 IMO without even looking at Calzaghe's record.

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 24 Apr 2021, 08:54

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 09:04

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑24 Apr 2021, 08:52 For starters Kessler would have wiped the floor with Simms and Williams, and would have beaten, possibly stopped Brewer.

Woodhall was better than Simms and Williams too. Bika turned out to be better than first thought as well.

There's been too much of a revisionist view on Lacy as well, just because Joe annihilated him.

That's 4 IMO without even looking at Calzaghe's record.

Kessler and Lacy were champions not challengers. Very basic ordinary fighters at that.

Brewer would’ve got to Kessler and stopped him though.

Woodhall was fragile at 12st and after his elbow injury. Not the very good boxer he was in 94.

Bika wasn’t very good. Tough and awkward. Watching Sims in the 12 rounds vs grandmaster Kalambay and Sanderline in the draw with a hungry Toney, just class. And against literal rich men’s middleweight Mayweathers.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 11:42

Two guys beat Kessler...one arguably the best Super middleweight ever (including Roid Jones jnr)and one of Britain's finest, Carl Froch (and Kessler was probably a bit burned out by the time of their rematch, after defeating Froch at the 1st time of asking in a much better contest).

Brewer isn't in this class. Charles could have been at his peak and Calzaghe would have just kept taking it up another level. Joe's desire alone keeps him ahead of Brewer always.

Kessler was practically unstoppable and hit with power, plus had a great engine, whereas Brewer could box and was a hard & sharp puncher but could be erratic and vulnerable.

In other words, he had no chance against Kessler.

mickey1975 · Post by **mickey1975** » 24 Apr 2021, 11:55

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑24 Apr 2021, 11:42 Two guys beat Kessler...one arguably the best Super middleweight ever (including Roid Jones jnr)and one of Britain's finest, Carl Froch (and Kessler was probably a bit burned out by the time of their rematch, after defeating Froch at the 1st time of asking in a much better contest).

Brewer isn't in this class. Charles could have been at his peak and Calzaghe would have just kept taking it up another level. Joe's desire alone keeps him ahead of Brewer always.

Kessler was practically unstoppable and hit with power, plus had a great engine, whereas Brewer could box and was a hard & sharp puncher but could be erratic and vulnerable.

In other words, he had no chance against Kessler.

Two of the greatest ever. Ward and Joe.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 12:20

Ward, Calzaghe and Jones might be the 3 greatest at super middleweight (although Jones has PED question marks(even though the bust was at light heavy)).

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 12:56

Kessler looked very basic to me. Guard up, straight punches, predictable foot movement - a good fighter. However Brewer was also a good fighter. It would’ve been a good fight. Kessler beat absolutely nobody of note near their best other than Froch, a good fighter who had really poor skills.

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:02

Laughable mentioning ‘greatest ever’ anything in a pass-through division that was only created 30 years ago. Plus the early ‘greats’ like Park and Hearns were making 168 on the day of the fight, making it an entirely different weight div

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:10

I can’t see Andre Ward as a ‘great’ anything with his running style and dirty tactics (heads and clinches) - the greats like Armstrong, Duran, Robinson and Foster did not run - and there’s no real depth or activity there, at least one or the other. Those guys like Allan Green and Miranda were very techically limited ‘athlete’ types, similar to Jean Pascal. But then you can only beat what’s in front of you. It wasn’t a great era or anything.

Waiting six months to fight Shelby Pudwill or Tocker Pudwill and then waiting six months to fight again I just don’t see as great stuff - Jake LaMotta would’ve laughed you off the land for it.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:37

But saying they used to make 12 stone on the day of the fight applies to every division ! So that comment needs striking

There's more to Kessler's game than that, but more importantly it's how effectively you apply what you have got in your armoury, and Mikkel did just that to the maximum. The jab wasn't a flick, he thrusted it out and was a weapon in itself.

Quite revealing is that Anthony Mundine was never a man to have great respect for his opponents and even that big mouth, undoubted talent that he was, managed to show Kessler some respect.

I agree, Kessler v Brewer would have been some fight. Neither would hold back

I just can't see how Brewer could have held off Kessler over 12 rounds with the way Mikkel jabbed his way into fights and then unloaded.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:43

Both The Hatchet and The Viking Warrior gave Calzaghe tough nights....I'd love to know Joe's opinion

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:44

Correction needed to my earlier post saying only two guys beat Kessler....

...of course Calazghe did too

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:46

Brewer gave Joey boy a tougher night that he’d like to admit. A war

1-4-U-MOM

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 13:50

It was a very tough fight. Brewer had the ability to make life very hard for even the best of them, but had some definite shortcomings.

Joe shouldn't have locked horns as much as he did, but we all got a good fight.

Actually, if you remember the live post fight interview straight after the fight, I'm sure I recall Joe saying " sh1t, that was tough ! ".

Also adding something like "he wasn't taking my title...no way ! "

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 14:01

Calzaghe was a tough brawler. Ate right hands and came back with combinations - his career in a nutshell.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 24 Apr 2021, 14:14

How would Eubank snr have done against Brewer ?

The Hatchet could set a hot pace.

coghaugen11 · Post by **coghaugen11** » 24 Apr 2021, 14:26

You don’t give Eubank sneaky counter opportunities all night, like Brewer would. Tony Thornton had the right idea - step up close with an occasional jolting jab behind a high guard and throw choppy rights or combust hooks as Eubank goes backward in a second or third phase of movement.

Lindell Holmes had a decent plan too - hold ring centre and aim right hands to the chest or wait to parry and counter. Defence tight.

Chris had the lateral movement and flashy flurries to steal most of the rounds against both though.

If Benn had fought Graham in 1990

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