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Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 23 May 2021, 05:48
by Thomastearns
polecateddy wrote: 22 May 2021, 18:39
Controversial wrote: 22 May 2021, 10:20 How the hell is Manny still competing at this level aged 42 ? :o
Lots of bio-identical hormones and non random drug tests allows substances to clear his system well in time for any test. Pretty much the regiment of most top line boxers.


It's either that or retire.

A common explanation is that training and diet improvements are the cause.

Highly unlikely. Or else we'd see this in other sports such as swimming and athletics etc. We don't.

Another plausible explanation could be that the standards in Manny's weight divisions are declining faster than he is.

But then you'd have to believe that today's WWs are considerably inferior to those from 2010.

I suspect it's a combination of all 3 but PED use is THE major factor.

And until EVERY boxer is willing to subject themselves to the kind of testing that Nonito Donnaire has done, we cannot rule out PED use.

Those trend setters Mayweather and the beef loving Canelo have certainly done their bit in laying down the blueprint of unparalleled financial success.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndicatio ... y.amp.html

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 25 May 2021, 10:11
by Ruthless-RKO
Spence Opens As Significant Betting Favorite For Summer Showdown With Pacquiao

Manny Pacquiao will enter his next fight as a greater underdog than for any other fight in the past 20 years.

The former eight-division champion made quite a statement this past Friday, alerting the world of his intention to next face unbeaten, unified WBC/IBF welterweight titlist Errol Spence (27-0, 21 KOs) of Desoto, Texas. The bout will take place August 21 atop a Fox Sports Pay-Per-View event from a venue to be determined in Las Vegas, a city where Pacquiao has registered some of the biggest moments of his eventual Hall of Fame career.

It is also where the 42-year-old will fight for the first time in two years, with the oddsmakers not liking his chances. Spence has been installed as an early -450 betting favorite according to reputable sportsbooks including BetOnline.ag, while Philippines’ Pacquiao (62-7-2, 39 KOs) is listed as a +350 betting underdog in his quest to become a five-time welterweight titlist.

The last time Pacquiao did not enter the ring as a favorite was for his May 2015 blockbuster superfight with unbeaten pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather at MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. The legendary Filipino southpaw hovered around the +175 mark throughout fight week after an earlier push saw Mayweather come down from -285 all the way down to -185 before hovering at around -225 leading into the fight.

Mayweather claimed a 12-round unanimous decision victory in what remains the highest grossing event in boxing history.

Prior to that bout, Pacquiao didn’t enter as the underdog since his Dec. 2008 passing of the torch showdown versus Oscar de la Hoya. Pacquiao entered the ring at +150, but left the MGM Grand with the biggest win of his career to that point.

Pacquiao was the underdog in his U.S. debut in 2001, with Lehlo Ledwaba as a -700 favorite to defend his IBF junior featherweight title. Pacquiao proved to be a longshot jackpot, prevailing in the short notice assignment as he scored a 6th round knockout win to claim his second divisional championship.

More than two years later, Pacquiao conquered Marco Antonio Barrera who was as much as a -400 favorite in their November 2003 lineal featherweight championship in San Antonio. Pacquiao won by 11th round knockout in becoming a three-division champ before eventually storming through history.

Pacquiao was the betting favorite for his most recent bout, entering the ring at -155 for his challenge of unbeaten WBA welterweight titlist Keith Thurman in July 2019. Pacquiao scored an opening round knockdown en route to a 12-round split decision win to win the welterweight title at age 40.

Spence has entered the ring as the betting underdog just once in his career.

The undefeated Texan southpaw marched into hostile territory for his May 2017 challenge of then IBF welterweight titlist Kell Brook, who was a slight -125 favorite to defend his crown in his hometown of Sheffield, England. Spence won by 11th round knockout, having made five successful title defenses including a 12-round split decision win over Shawn Porter to unify the IBF and WBC titles in their September 2019 thriller where Spence was at roughly -550.

In his most recent outing, Spence defended both belts in a 12-round unanimous decision win over Danny Garcia last December at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas. The bout was Spence’s first after having been out of the ring for more than 14 months, most of that time spent recovering from injuries suffered in a horrific car crash.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 25 May 2021, 11:02
by Enlightened-One
Controversial wrote: 22 May 2021, 10:20 How the hell is Manny still competing at this level aged 42 ? :o
To be fair, by the time he steps foot inside the ring against Spence Jr., Pacquiao would have only engaged in one bout within a 31-month period.

It’s not as if he’s recently kept himself busy fighting top-tier world-rated welterweights.

People seem to forget that Manny Pacquiao was not only the betting favourite, but it seems that most boxing pundits also favoured the Filipino to defeat Keith Thurman. These claims might seem strange, but they're easy to verify.

For sure, Pacquiao beating Thurman was an impressive achievement, but people are forgetting that the American is terribly injury prone, had been inactive and hadn’t delivered an impressive performance within the previous three years leading up to his upset loss.

And at this point in time, Keith Thurman has only won one bout at welterweight within the last 4½ years.

Manny’s victory over Keith Thurman is the only notable (legit) welterweight opponent he’s beaten within the last 65 months (since the third bout against Timothy Bradley).

If Pacquiao beats Spence Jr. it’ll be a miraculous achievement, but the likelihood is that Errol demolishes Manny in a similar fashion to how the Filipino legend destroyed De La Hoya.

For the record, I’m not a Pacquiao “hater”, but the facts I’ve cited are undeniable, easy to prove and cannot be ignored.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 26 May 2021, 06:54
by Ruthless-RKO

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 26 May 2021, 12:51
by adislav123
Enlightened-One wrote: 25 May 2021, 11:02
Controversial wrote: 22 May 2021, 10:20 How the hell is Manny still competing at this level aged 42 ? :o
To be fair, by the time he steps foot inside the ring against Spence Jr., Pacquiao would have only engaged in one bout within a 31-month period.

It’s not as if he’s recently kept himself busy fighting top-tier world-rated welterweights.

People seem to forget that Manny Pacquiao was not only the betting favourite, but it seems that most boxing pundits also favoured the Filipino to defeat Keith Thurman. These claims might seem strange, but they're easy to verify.

For sure, Pacquiao beating Thurman was an impressive achievement, but people are forgetting that the American is terribly injury prone, had been inactive and hadn’t delivered an impressive performance within the previous three years leading up to his upset loss.

And at this point in time, Keith Thurman has only won one bout at welterweight within the last 4½ years.

Manny’s victory over Keith Thurman is the only notable (legit) welterweight opponent he’s beaten within the last 65 months (since the third bout against Timothy Bradley).

If Pacquiao beats Spence Jr. it’ll be a miraculous achievement, but the likelihood is that Errol demolishes Manny in a similar fashion to how the Filipino legend destroyed De La Hoya.

For the record, I’m not a Pacquiao “hater”, but the facts I’ve cited are undeniable, easy to prove and cannot be ignored.
as we all know, pacman beat both horn as well as '50 and 0 money may', not on the scorecards though.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 26 May 2021, 13:00
by ironbeard
:stop: Pac did NOT beat FMJ, no matter how much I wished it to happen.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 27 May 2021, 01:46
by Enlightened-One
adislav123 wrote: 26 May 2021, 12:51
Enlightened-One wrote: 25 May 2021, 11:02
Controversial wrote: 22 May 2021, 10:20 How the hell is Manny still competing at this level aged 42 ? :o
To be fair, by the time he steps foot inside the ring against Spence Jr., Pacquiao would have only engaged in one bout within a 31-month period.

It’s not as if he’s recently kept himself busy fighting top-tier world-rated welterweights.

People seem to forget that Manny Pacquiao was not only the betting favourite, but it seems that most boxing pundits also favoured the Filipino to defeat Keith Thurman. These claims might seem strange, but they're easy to verify.

For sure, Pacquiao beating Thurman was an impressive achievement, but people are forgetting that the American is terribly injury prone, had been inactive and hadn’t delivered an impressive performance within the previous three years leading up to his upset loss.

And at this point in time, Keith Thurman has only won one bout at welterweight within the last 4½ years.

Manny’s victory over Keith Thurman is the only notable (legit) welterweight opponent he’s beaten within the last 65 months (since the third bout against Timothy Bradley).

If Pacquiao beats Spence Jr. it’ll be a miraculous achievement, but the likelihood is that Errol demolishes Manny in a similar fashion to how the Filipino legend destroyed De La Hoya.

For the record, I’m not a Pacquiao “hater”, but the facts I’ve cited are undeniable, easy to prove and cannot be ignored.
as we all know, pacman beat both horn as well as '50 and 0 money may', not on the scorecards though.
Even though Pacquiao was robbed against Jeff Horn, the Aussie was never a legit top-ten world-rated welterweight. Jeff has never scored. legitimate victory over any notable name.

And Pacquiao was defeated by Mayweather more than SIX YEARS AGO!

With all due respect, your counter-argument seems rather bizarre to me.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 27 May 2021, 02:50
by Ezzard
A terrible mismatch. Hope Spence goes for Leo Santa Cruz next or maybe Chocolatito Gonzalez.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 27 May 2021, 02:52
by margaret thatcher
will manny look more or less like a kid next to errol than little mikey did


Image

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 27 May 2021, 03:35
by Ruthless-RKO
margaret thatcher wrote: 27 May 2021, 02:52 will manny look more or less like a kid next to errol than little mikey did


Image
I think there’s some camera confusion in that pic. Spence may be standing a little infront, or just that it’s from an angle.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 27 May 2021, 03:41
by margaret thatcher
mikey's like a 5'5 former 126'er....flabby at 147, not sure there's much 'confusion' there

manny defo wont be as soft though :oo

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 08:40
by Ruthless-RKO
Manny Pacquiao, Errol Spence Jr. and yet another WBA muddle

Last Friday, Manny Pacquiao announced via social media that he and unified WBC/IBF welterweight titleholder Errol Spence Jr. have agreed to fight August 21 at a site to be determined. At the end of one of the sport’s most tumultuous weeks in recent memory — Tyson Fury’s announcement that his superfight with Anthony Joshua had been made, a U.S. federal judge’s arbitration ruling that effectively scuttled that match in favor of Fury-Deontay Wilder III (now set for July 24), talk of a Joshua fight against either Oleksandr Usyk or Dillian Whyte in August, and the showdown between Josh Taylor and Jose Carlos Ramirez that crowned a new undisputed champion at 140 — Pacquiao’s out-of-the-blue announcement injected further excitement and anticipation.

But that excitement and anticipation soon turned to confusion when Boxrec.com initially listed Spence-Pacquiao as a unification of the WBC, IBF and WBA “super” championships (a listing that has since been removed). That’s because on January 30, the WBA — noting that Pacquiao had not fought since dethroning Keith Thurman in July 2019 and that he had not announced any upcoming matches — declared “The Pac Man” was now a “champion in recess” while also naming its secondary “world” titlist Yordenis Ugas the organization’s new “super” champion. For Ugas, it was a dizzyingly fast elevation –he won his share of the WBA title last September 6 by capturing a split decision against Abel Ramos — and by naming him “super” champion, the most widely-recognized version of the organization’s multi-tiered titular structure, he now had the power to induce Spence and WBO counterpart Terence Crawford into unification matches, for if they wanted to eventually become undisputed, boxing’s newest status symbol, they now would have to go through him…right?

If life were just, the answer would have been “yes.” But this is boxing, a sport where money not only talks, it bellows.

With Pacquiao back in the picture — and the massive attention he draws from mainstream media and casual sports fans — the WBA will be mightily tempted to reverse course and restore Pacquiao as its flagship champion thanks to the monstrous difference in sanctioning fee income the organization stands to receive with Pacquiao versus Spence as compared to Ugas versus anyone. While the Cuban is an excellent craftsman and a worthy adversary, he represents the classic “high risk/low reward” equation. Few people, Ugas included, boast the drawing power of the Filipino legend, one of a precious few fighters the “man on the street” could name if asked, with Roy Jones Jr., Mike Tyson and Floyd Mayweather being some of the others.

The magnetism of Tyson and Mayweather are illustrated by the fact that ABC is airing a two-part retrospective on “Iron Mike” in prime time while Mayweather stands to make at least eight figures — if not nine — by fighting June 6 on Showtime PPV against Logan Paul, a YouTube star who lost his pro debut against fellow social media star KSI. As for Jones, his exhibition with Tyson last November prompted outlets that normally would have ignored “The Sweet Science” to devote bundles of bandwidth to it, and, if the initial figure of 1 million buys can be believed, the enhanced attention paid off nicely. In this regard, Pacquiao is cut from their cloth, but if the WBA is to remain true to their rules, the WBA “super” title should not be included in the bounty for August’s showdown.

A generation ago, the WBC faced a similar situation regarding its heavyweight title as the WBA is now with the Pacquiao/Ugas quandary. The WBC handled the issue within its rules, and here’ how: After Vitali Klitschko stopped Danny Williams in eight rounds to retain his WBC championship in December 2004, he was obliged to meet mandatory challenger (and former champ) Hasim Rahman in April 2005. The fight was postponed when Klitschko pulled a thigh muscle and attempts to reschedule the match were thwarted after “Dr. Ironfist” injured his back. In November 2005 the match finally appeared to be a go on its fourth try but just days before the fight Klitschko tore a ligament in his right knee. Facing six more months of recovery, Klitschko announced his retirement.

On December 20, 2005, the WBC declared Klitschko a “champion emeritus,” which, like the WBA’s “champion in recess” status that Pacquiao currently enjoys, theoretically entitles an injured or retired champion first crack at his old belt should he choose to return. The WBC also authorized an August 2005 match between Rahman and Monte Barrett for the WBC “interim” title, which Rahman won by unanimous decision. After drawing with James Toney in March 2006, Rahman, elevated to “full” WBC champion after Klitschko announced his retirement in November 2005, lost it to Oleg Maskaev via 12th round TKO in August 2006. Maskaev, in turn, retained the belt by out-pointing Peter Okello in December 2006, then lost it to “interim” titlist Samuel Peter by sixth-round TKO in March 2008.

While all this was going on, Klitschko was rehabbing his injuries and had recovered to the point that he announced his return to boxing. He exercised his “champion emeritus” status to claim an instant title shot against Peter in October 2008. In stopping Peter in eight rounds, the 37-year-old Klitschko showed no signs of advanced age or 46 months worth of rust, and he subsequently produced a title reign lasting nearly four years and nine successful defenses, a run that led to his becoming a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

The WBA’s decision to strip Pacquiao of his “super” champion status and give it to Ugas should have triggered a series of events similar to those involving Klitschko, Rahman and, eventually, Peter: Pacquiao, the “champion in recess,” would have fought Ugas, the current “super” champion, and that winner would’ve met the winner of a Spence-Crawford fight for the undisputed championship. But since the Spence-Pacquiao fight has already been announced, here’s another scenario: Have “The Truth” and the “Pac Man” vie for Spence’s two belts and, since neither have any fights scheduled, Ugas should fight WBO counterpart Crawford with the winners to fight for all the marbles. While Ugas-Crawford in itself would not attract the kind of money Spence-Pacquiao would, the possibility of the winner fighting for the undisputed championship should add prestige — and cash — to the proceedings.

But because the lust for maximum money in the short term is so overwhelming, there is good reason to believe that the most cynical outcome will come to pass — elevate Pacquiao, relegate Ugas, and add the WBA “super” title to the Spence-Pacquiao pot.

If that happens, Ugas and his team would be incensed, and rightly so. But one fighter from the past, Graciano Rocchigiani, took his fury to another level — and he nearly killed the WBC in the process.

Here’s the story: In early 1998, Roy Jones Jr. decided to vacate the WBC light heavyweight title in order to move up to heavyweight and fight former champion James “Buster” Douglas on May 2 in Atlantic City. That prompted the WBC to order a fight between onetime IBF super middleweight titlist Rocchigiani and former two-division champion Michael Nunn that was clearly advertised as being for the vacant title, and, on March 21 in Berlin, “Rocky” won a split decision.

Meanwhile, Roy Jones Sr. told Roy Jones Jr. that he should remain at 175 because the father felt the son would be “risking his life” by fighting a man of Douglas’ size, skill and strength. Jones Jr. took his father’s advice and notified the WBC that he had changed his mind. The WBC responded by restoring the globally-known Jones as its “full” champion and demoting the lesser-known Rocchigiani to “interim” titlist, saying that the official rankings that had listed him as champion had been “a typographical error.” A bout between Jones and Rocchigiani was arranged for November 6, 1999 in Biloxi, Miss., but promoter Murad Muhammad canceled the match after the German southpaw failed to attend a press conference in New York. In response, the WBC stripped Rocchigiani of the “interim” belt.

Rocchigiani sued the WBC and in April 2003 a New York court ruled in favor of the fighter, restoring his status as official WBC light heavyweight champion from March 28, 1998 to April 15, 2000, the date in which he lost his very next fight to Dariusz Michalczewski. But the real killer from the WBC’s perspective was the $31 million judgment that was handed down, a ruling that forced the organization to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The next step was declaring Chapter 7 bankruptcy — an action that may well have led to the end of the WBC — but the mandated liquidation of assets to pay off the multi-million dollar bill was averted when the organization and Rocchigiani reached an agreement in August 2004, the terms of which were not revealed.

“We have gotten up off the canvas only seconds from disappearing,” then-WBC president Jose Sulaiman told the Associated Press.

If the WBA pulls the trigger and restores Pacquiao as its “super” champion, could we have a scenario in which we could substitute “Ugas” for “Rocchigiani” and the WBA for the WBC? Probably not, because in Rocchigiani’s case he had already engaged in a fight advertised for the WBC title, won it, then had it taken away while Ugas has yet to defend his newly-won “super” belt. If the WBA decides to demote Ugas, would it do so while also offering sweeteners, such as a fight with the winner of Spence-Pacquiao, or some short of financial reward? Years and circumstances have taught long-time observers that boxing’s capacity for back-room maneuvers is almost limitless.

As for this scribe, the fairest scenario for all concerned has already been laid out — Spence-Pacquiao for Spence’s belts and Ugas keeping his “super” belt and defending against Crawford if promotional roadblocks can be cleared. Whether that comes to pass is another question entirely. Until the WBA offers us clarity, all we as observers can do is wait.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 18:36
by Enlightened-One
Ruthless-RKO wrote: 28 May 2021, 08:40 Manny Pacquiao, Errol Spence Jr. and yet another WBA muddle

Last Friday, Manny Pacquiao announced via social media that he and unified WBC/IBF welterweight titleholder Errol Spence Jr. have agreed to fight August 21 at a site to be determined. At the end of one of the sport’s most tumultuous weeks in recent memory — Tyson Fury’s announcement that his superfight with Anthony Joshua had been made, a U.S. federal judge’s arbitration ruling that effectively scuttled that match in favor of Fury-Deontay Wilder III (now set for July 24), talk of a Joshua fight against either Oleksandr Usyk or Dillian Whyte in August, and the showdown between Josh Taylor and Jose Carlos Ramirez that crowned a new undisputed champion at 140 — Pacquiao’s out-of-the-blue announcement injected further excitement and anticipation.

But that excitement and anticipation soon turned to confusion when Boxrec.com initially listed Spence-Pacquiao as a unification of the WBC, IBF and WBA “super” championships (a listing that has since been removed). That’s because on January 30, the WBA — noting that Pacquiao had not fought since dethroning Keith Thurman in July 2019 and that he had not announced any upcoming matches — declared “The Pac Man” was now a “champion in recess” while also naming its secondary “world” titlist Yordenis Ugas the organization’s new “super” champion. For Ugas, it was a dizzyingly fast elevation –he won his share of the WBA title last September 6 by capturing a split decision against Abel Ramos — and by naming him “super” champion, the most widely-recognized version of the organization’s multi-tiered titular structure, he now had the power to induce Spence and WBO counterpart Terence Crawford into unification matches, for if they wanted to eventually become undisputed, boxing’s newest status symbol, they now would have to go through him…right?

If life were just, the answer would have been “yes.” But this is boxing, a sport where money not only talks, it bellows.

With Pacquiao back in the picture — and the massive attention he draws from mainstream media and casual sports fans — the WBA will be mightily tempted to reverse course and restore Pacquiao as its flagship champion thanks to the monstrous difference in sanctioning fee income the organization stands to receive with Pacquiao versus Spence as compared to Ugas versus anyone. While the Cuban is an excellent craftsman and a worthy adversary, he represents the classic “high risk/low reward” equation. Few people, Ugas included, boast the drawing power of the Filipino legend, one of a precious few fighters the “man on the street” could name if asked, with Roy Jones Jr., Mike Tyson and Floyd Mayweather being some of the others.

The magnetism of Tyson and Mayweather are illustrated by the fact that ABC is airing a two-part retrospective on “Iron Mike” in prime time while Mayweather stands to make at least eight figures — if not nine — by fighting June 6 on Showtime PPV against Logan Paul, a YouTube star who lost his pro debut against fellow social media star KSI. As for Jones, his exhibition with Tyson last November prompted outlets that normally would have ignored “The Sweet Science” to devote bundles of bandwidth to it, and, if the initial figure of 1 million buys can be believed, the enhanced attention paid off nicely. In this regard, Pacquiao is cut from their cloth, but if the WBA is to remain true to their rules, the WBA “super” title should not be included in the bounty for August’s showdown.

A generation ago, the WBC faced a similar situation regarding its heavyweight title as the WBA is now with the Pacquiao/Ugas quandary. The WBC handled the issue within its rules, and here’ how: After Vitali Klitschko stopped Danny Williams in eight rounds to retain his WBC championship in December 2004, he was obliged to meet mandatory challenger (and former champ) Hasim Rahman in April 2005. The fight was postponed when Klitschko pulled a thigh muscle and attempts to reschedule the match were thwarted after “Dr. Ironfist” injured his back. In November 2005 the match finally appeared to be a go on its fourth try but just days before the fight Klitschko tore a ligament in his right knee. Facing six more months of recovery, Klitschko announced his retirement.

On December 20, 2005, the WBC declared Klitschko a “champion emeritus,” which, like the WBA’s “champion in recess” status that Pacquiao currently enjoys, theoretically entitles an injured or retired champion first crack at his old belt should he choose to return. The WBC also authorized an August 2005 match between Rahman and Monte Barrett for the WBC “interim” title, which Rahman won by unanimous decision. After drawing with James Toney in March 2006, Rahman, elevated to “full” WBC champion after Klitschko announced his retirement in November 2005, lost it to Oleg Maskaev via 12th round TKO in August 2006. Maskaev, in turn, retained the belt by out-pointing Peter Okello in December 2006, then lost it to “interim” titlist Samuel Peter by sixth-round TKO in March 2008.

While all this was going on, Klitschko was rehabbing his injuries and had recovered to the point that he announced his return to boxing. He exercised his “champion emeritus” status to claim an instant title shot against Peter in October 2008. In stopping Peter in eight rounds, the 37-year-old Klitschko showed no signs of advanced age or 46 months worth of rust, and he subsequently produced a title reign lasting nearly four years and nine successful defenses, a run that led to his becoming a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

The WBA’s decision to strip Pacquiao of his “super” champion status and give it to Ugas should have triggered a series of events similar to those involving Klitschko, Rahman and, eventually, Peter: Pacquiao, the “champion in recess,” would have fought Ugas, the current “super” champion, and that winner would’ve met the winner of a Spence-Crawford fight for the undisputed championship. But since the Spence-Pacquiao fight has already been announced, here’s another scenario: Have “The Truth” and the “Pac Man” vie for Spence’s two belts and, since neither have any fights scheduled, Ugas should fight WBO counterpart Crawford with the winners to fight for all the marbles. While Ugas-Crawford in itself would not attract the kind of money Spence-Pacquiao would, the possibility of the winner fighting for the undisputed championship should add prestige — and cash — to the proceedings.

But because the lust for maximum money in the short term is so overwhelming, there is good reason to believe that the most cynical outcome will come to pass — elevate Pacquiao, relegate Ugas, and add the WBA “super” title to the Spence-Pacquiao pot.

If that happens, Ugas and his team would be incensed, and rightly so. But one fighter from the past, Graciano Rocchigiani, took his fury to another level — and he nearly killed the WBC in the process.

Here’s the story: In early 1998, Roy Jones Jr. decided to vacate the WBC light heavyweight title in order to move up to heavyweight and fight former champion James “Buster” Douglas on May 2 in Atlantic City. That prompted the WBC to order a fight between onetime IBF super middleweight titlist Rocchigiani and former two-division champion Michael Nunn that was clearly advertised as being for the vacant title, and, on March 21 in Berlin, “Rocky” won a split decision.

Meanwhile, Roy Jones Sr. told Roy Jones Jr. that he should remain at 175 because the father felt the son would be “risking his life” by fighting a man of Douglas’ size, skill and strength. Jones Jr. took his father’s advice and notified the WBC that he had changed his mind. The WBC responded by restoring the globally-known Jones as its “full” champion and demoting the lesser-known Rocchigiani to “interim” titlist, saying that the official rankings that had listed him as champion had been “a typographical error.” A bout between Jones and Rocchigiani was arranged for November 6, 1999 in Biloxi, Miss., but promoter Murad Muhammad canceled the match after the German southpaw failed to attend a press conference in New York. In response, the WBC stripped Rocchigiani of the “interim” belt.

Rocchigiani sued the WBC and in April 2003 a New York court ruled in favor of the fighter, restoring his status as official WBC light heavyweight champion from March 28, 1998 to April 15, 2000, the date in which he lost his very next fight to Dariusz Michalczewski. But the real killer from the WBC’s perspective was the $31 million judgment that was handed down, a ruling that forced the organization to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The next step was declaring Chapter 7 bankruptcy — an action that may well have led to the end of the WBC — but the mandated liquidation of assets to pay off the multi-million dollar bill was averted when the organization and Rocchigiani reached an agreement in August 2004, the terms of which were not revealed.

“We have gotten up off the canvas only seconds from disappearing,” then-WBC president Jose Sulaiman told the Associated Press.

If the WBA pulls the trigger and restores Pacquiao as its “super” champion, could we have a scenario in which we could substitute “Ugas” for “Rocchigiani” and the WBA for the WBC? Probably not, because in Rocchigiani’s case he had already engaged in a fight advertised for the WBC title, won it, then had it taken away while Ugas has yet to defend his newly-won “super” belt. If the WBA decides to demote Ugas, would it do so while also offering sweeteners, such as a fight with the winner of Spence-Pacquiao, or some short of financial reward? Years and circumstances have taught long-time observers that boxing’s capacity for back-room maneuvers is almost limitless.

As for this scribe, the fairest scenario for all concerned has already been laid out — Spence-Pacquiao for Spence’s belts and Ugas keeping his “super” belt and defending against Crawford if promotional roadblocks can be cleared. Whether that comes to pass is another question entirely. Until the WBA offers us clarity, all we as observers can do is wait.
I watched a video from Shawn Porter's YouTube channel yesterday and he speculated the idea that Pacquiao would very likely be reinstated from the WBA;s champion in recess to super champion, with Ugas being demoted.

The way that Showtime was talking, was that it would be a foregone conclusion, because the WBA will miss out on a huge commission payday if they don't.

The WBA are an utterly rancid organisation and if they do this, expect lawsuits being filed.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 18:40
by margaret thatcher
didnt the wba demote alberto machado from super champ and then give it to tank davis for beating a blown up inactive dude?

just another day for them

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 19:26
by Jeff_lacy_ko
When is the last time manny fought a southpaw?

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 19:38
by ironbeard
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:26 When is the last time manny fought a southpaw?
13 years ago...David Diaz.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 19:39
by Ruthless-RKO
margaret thatcher wrote: 28 May 2021, 18:40 didnt the wba demote alberto machado from super champ and then give it to tank davis for beating a blown up inactive dude?

just another day for them
Yup! Just another day in the office

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 19:57
by Jeff_lacy_ko
ironbeard wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:38
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:26 When is the last time manny fought a southpaw?
13 years ago...David Diaz.
Hard to draw anything from that i suppose

Manny is really good at getting that angle on orthodox fighters.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 28 May 2021, 20:53
by ironbeard
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:57
ironbeard wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:38
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: 28 May 2021, 19:26 When is the last time manny fought a southpaw?
13 years ago...David Diaz.
Hard to draw anything from that i suppose

Manny is really good at getting that angle on orthodox fighters.
I had to look it up. Surprised that it has been that long. I think that it makes little difference, with the exception that Spence has never faced a southpaw fighter like Manny.

I suppose the same could be said for Manny.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - Advanced Negotiations for July

Posted: 28 May 2021, 22:51
by caldo2025
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:09
emallini wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:05
lousy Shawn Porter?
Lousy.
Agreed. The most overrated “fighter” around. I used quotes bc what Porter does in there isn’t Boxing. A ref worth any salt would ring him up with penalty points every single round. I’d rather listen to my chick tell me a story about what her and her friend did in the city earlier than watch Porter fight anyone. F’ng hack job

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - Advanced Negotiations for July

Posted: 28 May 2021, 22:53
by gilgamesh
caldo2025 wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:51
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:09
emallini wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:05
lousy Shawn Porter?
Lousy.
Agreed. The most overrated “fighter” around. I used quotes bc what Porter does in there isn’t Boxing. A ref worth any salt would ring him up with penalty points every single round. I’d rather listen to my chick tell me a story about what her and her friend did in the city earlier than watch Porter fight anyone. F’ng hack job
Porter's a very good fighter, a rough competitor, but a good fighter.

If you can get away with it, it's not a foul. Remember that.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - Advanced Negotiations for July

Posted: 28 May 2021, 22:59
by ironbeard
gilgamesh wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:53
caldo2025 wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:51
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:09

Lousy.
Agreed. The most overrated “fighter” around. I used quotes bc what Porter does in there isn’t Boxing. A ref worth any salt would ring him up with penalty points every single round. I’d rather listen to my chick tell me a story about what her and her friend did in the city earlier than watch Porter fight anyone. F’ng hack job
Porter's a very good fighter, a rough competitor, but a good fighter.

If you can get away with it, it's not a foul. Remember that.
Spence v Porter was an excellent fight. Shawn is great for boxing. Nothing but a lunchbox, hard hat go to work fighter.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - Advanced Negotiations for July

Posted: 28 May 2021, 23:14
by caldo2025
gilgamesh wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:53
caldo2025 wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:51
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 21:09

Lousy.
Agreed. The most overrated “fighter” around. I used quotes bc what Porter does in there isn’t Boxing. A ref worth any salt would ring him up with penalty points every single round. I’d rather listen to my chick tell me a story about what her and her friend did in the city earlier than watch Porter fight anyone. F’ng hack job
Porter's a very good fighter, a rough competitor, but a good fighter.

If you can get away with it, it's not a foul. Remember that.
Nah Bro. You’re wrong. Every single sport has rules, fouls or penalties that SHOULD govern the sports integrity. Tom Brady gets called for intentional grounding. In Boxing, if you’re a marquee fighter, refs are ten times more reluctant to take a point away from a top biller regardless of how egregious the foul. Go ahead and tell me the last time a big name was charged a point in a main event, top fight? How many times was Floyd warned for holding in his first fight with Maidana when Floyd had rope burns appearing on his back at almost the end of round 1? He was warned literally 10 times.

A sport is a joke when the rules are tipped to one one side so obviously. Porter has lead with his head his whole career and has won fights bc of it and has not once been charged a point for it. That’s exactly why I love watching him hit the canvas and will continue to love it as he turns into the prelim fighter he is and always was.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - Advanced Negotiations for July

Posted: 28 May 2021, 23:25
by ironbeard
caldo2025 wrote: 28 May 2021, 23:14
gilgamesh wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:53
caldo2025 wrote: 28 May 2021, 22:51

Agreed. The most overrated “fighter” around. I used quotes bc what Porter does in there isn’t Boxing. A ref worth any salt would ring him up with penalty points every single round. I’d rather listen to my chick tell me a story about what her and her friend did in the city earlier than watch Porter fight anyone. F’ng hack job
Porter's a very good fighter, a rough competitor, but a good fighter.

If you can get away with it, it's not a foul. Remember that.
Nah Bro. You’re wrong. Every single sport has rules, fouls or penalties that SHOULD govern the sports integrity. Tom Brady gets called for intentional grounding. In Boxing, if you’re a marquee fighter, refs are ten times more reluctant to take a point away from a top biller regardless of how egregious the foul. Go ahead and tell me the last time a big name was charged a point in a main event, top fight? How many times was Floyd warned for holding in his first fight with Maidana when Floyd had rope burns appearing on his back at almost the end of round 1? He was warned literally 10 times.

A sport is a joke when the rules are tipped to one one side so obviously. Porter has lead with his head his whole career and has won fights bc of it and has not once been charged a point for it. That’s exactly why I love watching him hit the canvas and will continue to love it as he turns into the prelim fighter he is and always was.
I respect your opinion but your analogy is weak tea. Marquee teams and players get away with murder in the NFL. Have for decades.

I disagree with you on Porter. Shawn fights anyone and respects his profession. He always comes prepared and always goes to war. Boxing and the WW division would be lesser without him.

Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Errol Spence - August 21, 2021

Posted: 29 May 2021, 12:12
by Jeff_lacy_ko
Manny took a lot of punishment over the years is old, relies on speed and reflex, has fought an absurd number of rounds at the highest level and is coming off a lot of inactivity

Spence is in his prime and has the size advantage

Pacman. Doesnt have 1 punch power anymore and hasnt since floyd accused him of peds way back when