BoxRec

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 16:58**

magnus wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:03 That Fornier thread on another forum (are we allowed to name it?) is great reading.

The guy sounds like a complete Walter Mitty.

Would love to read this thread please!

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 17:00**

lol, fornier claiming he's making like 6m to fight haye

imagine being the type of business man who thinks it's a good move to pay that much for smokin joe

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 17:01**

i read a thread on ben shalom on another forum

it seems these 'self made' business types are full of huge amounts of steaming bullsheet

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 17:30**

Like a lot of people these days, shallow world we live in

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 17:40**

stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:08
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 13:15
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 12:25 I personally have no problem with exhibitions and freak show matches, because once upon a time in the sport they were common and frequently occurring. Virtually every heavyweight champion until the 1990s was involved in exhibitions, etc.

What I am glad about it all is that it has shown you can make a crap load of money by cutting out promoters. This has shown fighters that you can create your own destiny without having to depend on promoters.
Exactly, the big difference now is the internet has propelled this to a new level financially. Ali had exhibitions with a wrestler and an NFL player, also the much talked about fight with basketball player Chamberlain that never materialised. If the internet and money was about in those times Ali would have done exactly the same thing as these fighters are going now, just on a bigger level.

.

Beyond Ali and Foreman - I cannot think of two many heavyweights in the 1970s who were involved in exhibitions let alone in the 1980s and 1990s. They were not being held in the same frequency as they are now. I mean it feels like there is some kind of exhibition every month now.

But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 19:45**

stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 15:42 Amazing to think that Haye who actually brought interest back in the Heavyweights in the states and this is only his second pro fight in the states - so maybe also its a bit of a bucket list thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haye has another fight after this - "Lets go champ".

I think it’s his 3rd. Pretty sure he had 2 bouts earlier in his career. The 2nd one was at playboy mansion and I think his 1st there was his 3rd or 4th pro bout.

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 19:55**

Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 17:40
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:08
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 13:15

Exactly, the big difference now is the internet has propelled this to a new level financially. Ali had exhibitions with a wrestler and an NFL player, also the much talked about fight with basketball player Chamberlain that never materialised. If the internet and money was about in those times Ali would have done exactly the same thing as these fighters are going now, just on a bigger level.

.

Beyond Ali and Foreman - I cannot think of two many heavyweights in the 1970s who were involved in exhibitions let alone in the 1980s and 1990s. They were not being held in the same frequency as they are now. I mean it feels like there is some kind of exhibition every month now.
But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.

Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.

Posted: **12 Aug 2021, 20:31**

stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 19:55
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 17:40
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:08

Beyond Ali and Foreman - I cannot think of two many heavyweights in the 1970s who were involved in exhibitions let alone in the 1980s and 1990s. They were not being held in the same frequency as they are now. I mean it feels like there is some kind of exhibition every month now.
But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.
Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.

That part scares me. These exhibitions should not be out earning regular boxing, nor receiving as much casual attention.
Crazy since I can go to my local boxing club, watch some well matched fights for the same sort of money fools will pay watching David Haye flush the last entrails of his legacy down the dunny.
Actually, there will probably be more entertaining fights in the carpark of my local boxing club than this fight.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 04:24**

stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 19:55
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 17:40
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:08

Beyond Ali and Foreman - I cannot think of two many heavyweights in the 1970s who were involved in exhibitions let alone in the 1980s and 1990s. They were not being held in the same frequency as they are now. I mean it feels like there is some kind of exhibition every month now.
But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.
Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.

It's only because it generates more money, thats all the TV companies are interested in, and the fighters too. Ali was a promoters dream, if PPV was a thing back in his time he absolutely would have taken full advantage of it. All fighters want as much money as possible. Ali and Wilt Chamberlain were holding press conferences and appearing on national TV promoting their 'fight', if PPV was possible they would've milked that for all it was worth. The Ali vs Liston rematch had the smallest crowd in HW history, something like 2,500 in the audience.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 04:24**

stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 19:55
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 17:40
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 14:08

Beyond Ali and Foreman - I cannot think of two many heavyweights in the 1970s who were involved in exhibitions let alone in the 1980s and 1990s. They were not being held in the same frequency as they are now. I mean it feels like there is some kind of exhibition every month now.
But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.
Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.

It's only because it generates more money, thats all the TV companies are interested in, and the fighters too. Ali was a promoters dream, if PPV was a thing back in his time he absolutely would have taken full advantage of it. All fighters want as much money as possible. Ali and Wilt Chamberlain were holding press conferences and appearing on national TV and press promoting their 'fight', if PPV was possible they would've milked that for all it was worth. The Ali vs Liston rematch had the smallest crowd in HW history, something like 2,500 in the audience.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 05:37**

The bit that really sticks in the throat is that these retired millionaire ex-boxers are crapping all over their younger counterparts still grafting away for their payday.

David Haye should stay in his lane and promote these upcoming fighters. Fcuking dick.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 05:43**

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 04:24
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 19:55
Controversial wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 17:40

But the world is a very different place now than the 1970s. Hundreds of TV channels, internet, podcasts, 24hr live news, social media, tech. smartphones etc.... If the same opportunities were available in the 1970s as they are now, then the fighters of that era would have done the exact same thing.
Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.
It's only because it generates more money, thats all the TV companies are interested in, and the fighters too. Ali was a promoters dream, if PPV was a thing back in his time he absolutely would have taken full advantage of it. All fighters want as much money as possible. Ali and Wilt Chamberlain were holding press conferences and appearing on national TV and press promoting their 'fight', if PPV was possible they would've milked that for all it was worth. The Ali vs Liston rematch had the smallest crowd in HW history, something like 2,500 in the audience.

Yes - I agree with what you are saying and yes off course if Mike Tyson vs Hulk Hogan would have generated more interest / money in the 1980s then yes - Tyson and Hogan would have done that in a heart beat.

But - my point of what is worrying me is not that the boxers are doing it, or that the youtubers are saying "do you know we can make a fortune boxing each other" it is the promoters / tv execs / streaming services or what ever is involved in the business model of it that are thinking that yes - the public have MORE interest in this than "proper" boxing. I think it was a poster who said on here that Canelo (the biggest star in boxing) wouldn't fight on 11/09 as it is clashing with the DLH PPV - that is not good..... it should be the other way around! Again not suggesting, at this stage anyway, that DLH will generate more PPVs sales than Canelo but the fact that Team Canelo is possibly thinking that a clash with the DLH PPV might impact on his viewing figures is the worry.

These are side shows, they shouldn't be impacting on the main event and eventually they could take over which could have an impact on the sports development. I know much more about Jake Paul's next move as I do Lawrence Okolie.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 06:27**

stujones wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 05:43
Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 04:24
stujones wrote: ↑12 Aug 2021, 19:55

Yes and no...I would say. Ali tried made a bit of money yes, but ultimately Ali's exhibitions were side shows that generated relatively little attention compared to the proper stuff...both Ali's proper stuff and proper stuff involving other fighters.

This though is becoming bigger than proper boxing which is a worry...Bt sport made more of an effort with Jones vs Tyson compared to Dubois vs Joyce. Likewise this bill is generating as much publicity as any proper fight happening. Sky were all over Mayweather vs Paul but didnt bid for Josh Taylor.
It's only because it generates more money, thats all the TV companies are interested in, and the fighters too. Ali was a promoters dream, if PPV was a thing back in his time he absolutely would have taken full advantage of it. All fighters want as much money as possible. Ali and Wilt Chamberlain were holding press conferences and appearing on national TV and press promoting their 'fight', if PPV was possible they would've milked that for all it was worth. The Ali vs Liston rematch had the smallest crowd in HW history, something like 2,500 in the audience.
Yes - I agree with what you are saying and yes off course if Mike Tyson vs Hulk Hogan would have generated more interest / money in the 1980s then yes - Tyson and Hogan would have done that in a heart beat.

But - my point of what is worrying me is not that the boxers are doing it, or that the youtubers are saying "do you know we can make a fortune boxing each other" it is the promoters / tv execs / streaming services or what ever is involved in the business model of it that are thinking that yes - the public have MORE interest in this than "proper" boxing. I think it was a poster who said on here that Canelo (the biggest star in boxing) wouldn't fight on 11/09 as it is clashing with the DLH PPV - that is not good..... it should be the other way around! Again not suggesting, at this stage anyway, that DLH will generate more PPVs sales than Canelo but the fact that Team Canelo is possibly thinking that a clash with the DLH PPV might impact on his viewing figures is the worry.

These are side shows, they shouldn't be impacting on the main event and eventually they could take over which could have an impact on the sports development. I know much more about Jake Paul's next move as I do Lawrence Okolie.

Yes I agree, I feel boxing won't be the sport it used to be and will continue to decline. Too much emphases on unbeaten records, celeb culture and making as much as possible with the least risk. Over time I think the increased research and awareness of CTE concerns will impact in some way too.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 06:50**

Surely this will make f-all money?

This isn’t one of the Paul brothers with their massive internet following.

My guess is this fight never happens.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 07:03**

BillyTKid wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 06:50 Surely this will make f-all money?

This isn’t one of the Paul brothers with their massive internet following.

My guess is this fight never happens.

It's on the De La Hoya-Belfort undercard.

the card will sell..

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 07:45**

I believe that Paul v Mayweather bombed in the UK. It was on at 4am on a Monday morning. This De La Hoya card with Haye on it is priced at £37 in the UK. Dont know about the states but this will massively bomb on in the UK on FITE TV.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 08:27**

Couple of thoughts on this.

First, if this is to be a legitimate, sanctioned pro bout (i.e. one that goes on the boxers' pro records), then shame on any regulatory body that allows this to go ahead under its jurisdiction.

Second, the point about exhibitions not being so common in the past isn't quite right, in my view. For example, using old Boxing Newses, you can count around 15 exhibitions for Randolph Turpin in one calendar year. They were frequently used in the 50s by promoters to increase ticket sales. Overseas fighters also did them when they came over - for example, Floyd Paterson boxed an exhibition in Preston on a visit to the UK.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 08:45**

Rezzer1967 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 07:45 I believe that Paul v Mayweather bombed in the UK. It was on at 4am on a Monday morning. This De La Hoya card with Haye on it is priced at £37 in the UK. Dont know about the states but this will massively bomb on in the UK on FITE TV.

Dont think Sky helped themselves...they came in quite late to acquire it and they didnt even bother taking a team to the states. Didnt showcase the behind the ropes documentary etc

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 08:51**

olij999 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 08:27 Couple of thoughts on this.

First, if this is to be a legitimate, sanctioned pro bout (i.e. one that goes on the boxers' pro records), then shame on any regulatory body that allows this to go ahead under its jurisdiction.

Second, the point about exhibitions not being so common in the past isn't quite right, in my view. For example, using old Boxing Newses, you can count around 15 exhibitions for Randolph Turpin in one calendar year. They were frequently used in the 50s by promoters to increase ticket sales. Overseas fighters also did them when they came over - for example, Floyd Paterson boxed an exhibition in Preston on a visit to the UK.

I guess back then we were still getting the good pro fights.

Top fighters now days are avoiding each other and protecting 0's.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 10:24**

Was a big Haye fan back in the day but time to move a side and let the young uns take the limelight now David

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 14:15**

A friend of mine (unbeaten
heavyweight prospect based in USA) just got offered a considerable career high purse offer to fight in the bare knuckle event.

Much more than he has earned in any of his Queensbury fights .

Just a real time indication of the market right now

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 14:45**

Out of interest - because I have not read too much on it.
What money problems has Haye had/having? he earn`t pretty well during his peak years - and even the pension fights against Bellend must have made him enough to be financially secure if he had blown everything up till then. Throw in the commentary work etc

Is he skint or just chasing easy money??

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 15:00**

tonyevs wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 14:45
Is he skint or just chasing easy money??

Possibly a bit of both. I suspect it costs a lot to live like David Haye.
There was also talk that he lost a lot of money in a Hayemaker gym venture in Dubai.
Throw in a divorce and fortunes can dwindle.
But it could purely be missing the limelight.
He wouldn't be the first not to be able to let it go.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 15:42**

punchers chance wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 15:00
tonyevs wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 14:45
Is he skint or just chasing easy money??
Possibly a bit of both. I suspect it costs a lot to live like David Haye.
There was also talk that he lost a lot of money in a Hayemaker gym venture in Dubai.
Throw in a divorce and fortunes can dwindle.
But it could purely be missing the limelight.
He wouldn't be the first not to be able to let it go.

There's also talk Fournier bailed him out of it.

Posted: **13 Aug 2021, 15:53**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 15:42
punchers chance wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 15:00
tonyevs wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021, 14:45
Is he skint or just chasing easy money??
Possibly a bit of both. I suspect it costs a lot to live like David Haye.
There was also talk that he lost a lot of money in a Hayemaker gym venture in Dubai.
Throw in a divorce and fortunes can dwindle.
But it could purely be missing the limelight.
He wouldn't be the first not to be able to let it go.
There's also talk Fournier bailed him out of it.

Hadn't read that, but it makes plausible sense.

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