BoxRec

jameswilson wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:35 Fury is the man. Pointless trying to put dampeners from the past on it, he’s got to where he’s got to regardless.

Did he deserve to lose to McDermott first time around? Yeah I thought so but I also think had he not got the nod he would have progressed almost identically in the long run to his World title shot.

Did he duck Price? Possibly. Irrelevant now.

I don't think he would have had any problems with Price, fair play to Price because he would have been willing to meet him, Price beat some pretty good domestic operators (Dallas, Skelton) and after Fury's 'loss' to McDermott - I imagine Price would have felt pretty confident of getting him out of there.

It's a pity Fury vs Price and now Fury vs Joshua didn't happen - or lets put it another way, happened at the time when they were both at their respective peaks. A real shame for British fans but I can't see anything but a win for Fury.

I agree Captainspacerod, my comments were more aimed at Paul Dempsey seemingly brushing aside Wlad and possibly Vitali by describing Fury as the best heavyweight in many a year. If we are starting to say hes the best Heavyweight since Lewis than imo he is being overrated, or Wlad is being underrated

It will take a lot for Fury to eclipse Wlads reign which wasnt that long ago.

Fury is the best Heavyweight since 2015 by some distance is how I'd rate him. I will say it's an awful bunch which doesnt do him any favours.

I want to see him against different styles and solidify. Hes still only beaten 2 top ten guys and one of them was very close despite Warren and co seemingly now suggesting he schooled him for every round. It doesnt even have to be Usyk or AJ...White, Ortiz, Joyce would be decent starts .

Fair points @stujones although i disagree with you

For me we can forgive the excellent Dempsey slightly overhyping things in the wake of one of the most dramatic HW fights for many a year. To an extent how highly one rates Tyson depends on how highly one rates Wilder. I'm firmly of the opinion that despite his technical shortcomings Wilder pretty much wipes out all the other contenders pre Usyk's arrival. And so it follows that i think Tyson deals pretty easily with the current crop and I'd place this current bunch as superior to those that Wlad jabbed, leaned on and clinched his way to victory against for 10 years.

Therefore imo you can make a decent argument for Tyson being the best HW of the last 20 years

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 11:25 Therefore imo you can make a decent argument for Tyson being the best HW of the last 20 years

Easily he is.

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 11:25 Fair points @stujones although i disagree with you

For me we can forgive the excellent Dempsey slightly overhyping things in the wake of one of the most dramatic HW fights for many a year. To an extent how highly one rates Tyson depends on how highly one rates Wilder. I'm firmly of the opinion that despite his technical shortcomings Wilder pretty much wipes out all the other contenders pre Usyk's arrival. And so it follows that i think Tyson deals pretty easily with the current crop and I'd place this current bunch as superior to those that Wlad jabbed, leaned on and clinched his way to victory against for 10 years.

Therefore imo you can make a decent argument for Tyson being the best HW of the last 20 years

I would have loved to have seen Wilder vs Povetkin when it was scheduled.

I think people do forget that Povetkin even when way over the hill and after serving suspensions for drugs tests - he came back and pretty much cemented himself in the top 4 of the "current bunch" for a good period of the time. Beating some pretty good names of the "current bunch" and even given the long time #2 (#1 at the time) AJ a pretty good account - this was when over the hill.

Klitchsko dominated him

Problem with your statement is Wilder didn't even come close to fighting ANY of the top contenders - I mean its Stirvene and Ortiz are the only definite top tenner he faced - I wish he had fought the likes of Pulev, White, Ruiz, Povetkin, Parker, Ruiz - hell even the likes of Huck, Takam, Chisora, Hughie Fury - even add Adamek to the party - the likes of Breazele, Molina, Washington do not cut it really.


Perhaps I am looking at Klitchsko reign with some rose tinted spectacles - any yes I was as critical as anything of them - but really can we compare - Breazele, Ortiz and Stirvene to a prime Povetkin, Haye and someone like Chagaev - give me Klitchscko's resume any day. I reckon Tony Thompson would have beaten all of Wilder's other title fights - quite possibly on the same night and he wasn't near the next best challenger for Wlad.

Yes - I actually would agree that this "era" is actually better than the era Wlad fought in...... BUT - NOT the fighters Wilder fought..... Had Wilder's resume been something like - Whyte, Povetkin, Pulev, Ortiz, Bellew, Chisora - and THEN Fury beat him - then yep - definate make a case - but Wilder's resume was shocking

You must also think then that Joshua's standing is ahead of Klitchsko in terms of boxing history - cos at least he has fought among the geniune best in the division. I cannot believe I am writing about a resume of a long standing champion and Dominque Breazele is among his best 3 victims.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:48

jameswilson wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:35 Fury is the man. Pointless trying to put dampeners from the past on it, he’s got to where he’s got to regardless.

Did he deserve to lose to McDermott first time around? Yeah I thought so but I also think had he not got the nod he would have progressed almost identically in the long run to his World title shot.

Did he duck Price? Possibly. Irrelevant now.

I don't think he would have had any problems with Price, fair play to Price because he would have been willing to meet him, Price beat some pretty good domestic operators (Dallas, Skelton) and after Fury's 'loss' to McDermott - I imagine Price would have felt pretty confident of getting him out of there.

It's a pity Fury vs Price and now Fury vs Joshua didn't happen - or lets put it another way, happened at the time when they were both at their respective peaks. A real shame for British fans but I can't see anything but a win for Fury.

Classing Tom Dallas as a pretty good operator is going a bit far isn't it?

forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 13:40

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:48

jameswilson wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:35 Fury is the man. Pointless trying to put dampeners from the past on it, he’s got to where he’s got to regardless.

Did he deserve to lose to McDermott first time around? Yeah I thought so but I also think had he not got the nod he would have progressed almost identically in the long run to his World title shot.

Did he duck Price? Possibly. Irrelevant now.

I don't think he would have had any problems with Price, fair play to Price because he would have been willing to meet him, Price beat some pretty good domestic operators (Dallas, Skelton) and after Fury's 'loss' to McDermott - I imagine Price would have felt pretty confident of getting him out of there.

It's a pity Fury vs Price and now Fury vs Joshua didn't happen - or lets put it another way, happened at the time when they were both at their respective peaks. A real shame for British fans but I can't see anything but a win for Fury.

Classing Tom Dallas as a pretty good operator is going a bit far isn't it?

Not at the Price met him, no. Dallas was an unbeaten prospect.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:02

forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 13:40

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:48

I don't think he would have had any problems with Price, fair play to Price because he would have been willing to meet him, Price beat some pretty good domestic operators (Dallas, Skelton) and after Fury's 'loss' to McDermott - I imagine Price would have felt pretty confident of getting him out of there.

It's a pity Fury vs Price and now Fury vs Joshua didn't happen - or lets put it another way, happened at the time when they were both at their respective peaks. A real shame for British fans but I can't see anything but a win for Fury.

Classing Tom Dallas as a pretty good operator is going a bit far isn't it?

Not at the Price met him, no. Dallas was an unbeaten prospect.

I thought Dallas was a live dog in that fight

handsofstone wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:06

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:02

forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 13:40

Classing Tom Dallas as a pretty good operator is going a bit far isn't it?

Not at the Price met him, no. Dallas was an unbeaten prospect.

I thought Dallas was a live dog in that fight

So did I!

Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

Oiky wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 03:02 Thread doesnt even warrant a sensible reply

yes this is correct , so try an alternative sport

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:23 Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

His overall abilities are poor, but he's a World class puncher, who can deliver it. That's an important thing, cause it's impossible to grab a fish out of water without getting wet. The most impressive thing about this fight was how Fury was able to fight that good with such weight and comeback after knockdowns. We've seen how Fury deals with Wilder in a better shape. If to match Joshua against Deontay, it's possible to wait only a KO win by somebody. Cause Joshua won't last all the distance, while he has a chance of scoring a KO first. Usyk can school Wilder, but he also has never untouchable.

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 10:25 If Fury is 100% then he beats every heavyweight out there.

But its rare for a sportsperson to be 100%. Happens a lot less frequently than many might think.

I think Usyk has the best chance as he's a technically proficient boxer who brings something different to the table so if Fury isn't 100% then Usyk could cause him some problems.

I think Fury beats Wilder and Joshua every single time. These guys are still talking about working on basics in their 30s. Fury is light years ahead of both of them.

Some good points there ewen.

Imagine all the hours McCracken has spent trying to extend AJ's fairly limited skill set. No doubt he is able to replicate some of the moves in sparring. But, on the big stage when the real questions are asked, he doesn't seem to remember any of it.

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:23 Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

Thanks Twinkle for a reasoned perspective. Some of these ignorant youths don’t get it.

stevec@france wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:30

Oiky wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 03:02 Thread doesnt even warrant a sensible reply

yes this is correct , so try an alternative sport

Good job hall of fame Tyson hauled himself up from his arse in round 4 so some of you lot can maintain your ignorance. By the way, for the haters, I’m a big Fury fan. So this isn’t me slagging him for the sake of it.

Some of you lot boil my piss. Fury came in overweight against one of the most fundamentally crude former heavyweight champions EVER. Got put on his backside twice, was arguably more gone in this fight than he was in r12 of the first fight, and desperately needed the bell in this one.

And yet some consider him to be a great fighter because he was involved in an unexpectedly exciting fight in which many predicted he’d coast to victory.

Only on Boringrec.

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:23 Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

I'd fancy most on this board v Wilder

I just managed to watch the full fight. I knew the result and when all the knock-downs were coming, so obviously didn't have the same atmosphere as those who watched it live.

I go to say the fight left me somewhat disappointed. Sure it was very watchable, but shocking in the state of these apparent top two guys in their division.

Wilder looked terrible from the off - flinching at feints and pulling his head straight back; walked Ng into jabs, and looking shook by them ... Literally winding up that right hand for everyone to see. It must be said, he didn't look like he wanted to be in there from the 6th.

Fury is the top guy in the division; but aside from Usyk, what a terrible bunch of heavies we have. This era has to be the worse.

Lightsoot wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:50 Some of you lot boil my piss. Fury came in overweight against one of the most fundamentally crude former heavyweight champions EVER. Got put on his backside twice, was arguably more gone in this fight than he was in r12 of the first fight, and desperately needed the bell in this one.

And yet some consider him to be a great fighter because he was involved in an unexpectedly exciting fight in which many predicted he’d coast to victory.

Only on Boringrec.

I'd say you need to lighten up a little and enjoy stuff for what it is .Why so ranty ??

Coco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:56

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:23 Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

I'd fancy most on this board v Wilder

I think "most" is going a bit far Coco.

Of course, that rugged individual BroughtRulesRefugee would demolish any fighter who ever lived with his rapier wit and his appreciation of a good set of tight buttocks on a big lad.

Looking a bit further afield, Neddy The Nonce would also have had a good chance as a man who can KO a shark has to be respected.

Bea Smith? A bit of a dark horse but I'd have a punt on her due to her longevity at the top in Wentworth.

Lightsoot wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:50 Some of you lot boil my piss. Fury came in overweight against one of the most fundamentally crude former heavyweight champions EVER. Got put on his backside twice, was arguably more gone in this fight than he was in r12 of the first fight, and desperately needed the bell in this one.

And yet some consider him to be a great fighter because he was involved in an unexpectedly exciting fight in which many predicted he’d coast to victory.

Only on Boringrec.

Lightsoot wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:50 Some of you lot boil my piss. Fury came in overweight against one of the most fundamentally crude former heavyweight champions EVER. Got put on his backside twice, was arguably more gone in this fight than he was in r12 of the first fight, and desperately needed the bell in this one.

And yet some consider him to be a great fighter because he was involved in an unexpectedly exciting fight in which many predicted he’d coast to victory.

Only on Boringrec.

You remind me of Spud. He thought his opinion was worth more than everybody else's as well

Coco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:56

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:23 Wilder is terrible, he really is. Folk are getting a little over excited with Fury's wins over this guy. I ain't saying he is over rated though, but making a point how diabolical Wilder actually is. We've had 3 fights to see it.

Admittedly I gave Wilder a shot in the first fight, purely based on the Fury inactivity, but the subsequent performance by both in that first fight and since is how I have my view now.

I'd fancy most on this board v Wilder

Ummm, you are aware of my 7 consecutive losses and then forced into retirement by my mum who refused to drive me to any more competitions aren't you?

forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:27

Lightsoot wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 14:50 Some of you lot boil my piss. Fury came in overweight against one of the most fundamentally crude former heavyweight champions EVER. Got put on his backside twice, was arguably more gone in this fight than he was in r12 of the first fight, and desperately needed the bell in this one.

And yet some consider him to be a great fighter because he was involved in an unexpectedly exciting fight in which many predicted he’d coast to victory.

Only on Boringrec.

You remind me of Spud. He thought his opinion was worth more than everybody else's as well

Ah, Spud The Gofer!

Who was that heavyweight who gave Spud a slap for answering back under his breath? I think it was immortalised on film.

Is he still around? I half recall he said he had to call it a day in here as he'd been diagnosed with something. Hope he recovered.

When us Fury critics are accused of being haters it's mostly untrue. It's because we've never anointed a champion for the ages prematurely before. I didn't like Ali much, but no-one can say he didn't back himself and prove his greatness.

Fury ducked Price but that's academic. He ducked Wlad in the rematch and that's academic. He hasn't fought Joshua yet but he'd beat him. Whyte?! He'd beat him and AJ on the same night. He doesn't need to fight Joyce because Joe's too slow. And I suppose he has to fight Usyk to cement his legacy, but only because Usyk has the other belts, and another win's a formality.

That's my impression of Fury's hardcore fans. Most of us outside that group aren't doing the opposite and saying he'd lose to every other top-tenner, because in fact we'd give him strong odds against everyone, we're just (if I can speak for others) frustrated with this idea of cementing his place in history from such a patchy record.

He'll never overtake Lewis on the list of British heavies for me, but he could definitely end up second. Or he could lose to a couple of those guys and fall down a whole bunch of places. He has clear strengths and weaknesses, where his strengths seem capable of causing further upsets, at the same time as his weaknesses haven't been truly tested yet. Can anyone test them...

We need several more fights to find out. And that's all it is. I'm ready to support him as a future HoFer if he comes through, but not if he retired now. And the more fights he has the better, because there are maybe eight relevant opponents out there. Three more years (minus rematch clauses) and he could meet them all. Let's start with Whyte (pending Wallin), the Usyk-AJ winner, and a third big fight next year (Joyce/Ruiz...).

If he cleared those he'd be well on his way to greatness. He's my provisional number-one, but he won't stay there if he goes back to roadsweepers next year while the other top heavies are busy fighting each other. He really has to fight the Uysk-AJ winner now, so thankfully I doubt that happens. Most of us blamed Calzaghe for fighting dudes from Middle Earth, y'know...

Fury says he puts himself above all other heavyweights in history, and the only other person to make that claim was Ali.