BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

stujones wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:43

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 16:30 His biggest problem, far as I can see, is he's always fought in short bursts. He unloads on power shots, and needs several moments to recover. If I was to train the man, it'd be ultra-cardio so that he could fight hard for longer periods of time.

The trade off would be a loss in muscles but as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. And even if he lost more muscles he's still going to hit harder than anyone Usyk has ever fought anyways.

Nope. What that man needs is complete and total isolation from the glitz and glamor, doing an old-fashioned hard-nosed training camp where there is no cameras, no interviews, just hard work to the point of making him puke.

Bring in a bunch of light heavyweights and cruiserweights to spar with, maybe even some super middleweights. Put 20oz gloves on him and tell him, "Now get them and nail them to the floor." If you can catch someone faster than the Ukrainian there is no problems to be seen.

I would agree with all of that but a couple of cavaets.

1) That aint going to take a few months to fix - indeed whilst your theory is good - I think there is obviously the genetic aspect and I think Joshua will never be a marathon runner or mr Aerobic. Caster Semenya cannot run a world class 5 or 10 K, Mo Farah will never be a gold medal Marathon runner contender (good, world class but is off the best) - no matter how they train for it - So yes whilst that's his weakness and what he needs to do - will it make him a 12 round Wayne McCullough - probably not - but he needs to try and improve it.

2) 20 K gloves - this has its pitfuls also - it makes it harder to the sparring partner to catch AJ. It can (IMO) teach bad habits defensively but you can get away with it cos you have balloons on your hands. Usyk also took advantage of Joshua's defensive issues.

On a side, re Usyk - I would be very very intrigued how Usyk and the fact he appears to get fresher as the fight progresses would test this 19 stone's version of Fury's stamina. I saw Wilder's first round vs Fury and I thought Usyk is a fighter who 1) would have the stamina to sustain that and 2) When gets tagged will not revert to type or get flustered he has so much experience. He didn't let a nasty nasty cut vs Joshua phase him or even when Joshua had a mini decent spell - Usyk always looked in control.

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 19:39

stujones wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:43

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 16:30 His biggest problem, far as I can see, is he's always fought in short bursts. He unloads on power shots, and needs several moments to recover. If I was to train the man, it'd be ultra-cardio so that he could fight hard for longer periods of time.

The trade off would be a loss in muscles but as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. And even if he lost more muscles he's still going to hit harder than anyone Usyk has ever fought anyways.

Nope. What that man needs is complete and total isolation from the glitz and glamor, doing an old-fashioned hard-nosed training camp where there is no cameras, no interviews, just hard work to the point of making him puke.

Bring in a bunch of light heavyweights and cruiserweights to spar with, maybe even some super middleweights. Put 20oz gloves on him and tell him, "Now get them and nail them to the floor." If you can catch someone faster than the Ukrainian there is no problems to be seen.

I would agree with all of that but a couple of cavaets.

1) That aint going to take a few months to fix - indeed whilst your theory is good - I think there is obviously the genetic aspect and I think Joshua will never be a marathon runner or mr Aerobic. Caster Semenya cannot run a world class 5 or 10 K, Mo Farah will never be a gold medal Marathon runner contender (good, world class but is off the best) - no matter how they train for it - So yes whilst that's his weakness and what he needs to do - will it make him a 12 round Wayne McCullough - probably not - but he needs to try and improve it.

2) 20 K gloves - this has its pitfuls also - it makes it harder to the sparring partner to catch AJ. It can (IMO) teach bad habits defensively but you can get away with it cos you have balloons on your hands. Usyk also took advantage of Joshua's defensive issues.

On a side, re Usyk - I would be very very intrigued how Usyk and the fact he appears to get fresher as the fight progresses would test this 19 stone's version of Fury's stamina. I saw Wilder's first round vs Fury and I thought Usyk is a fighter who 1) would have the stamina to sustain that and 2) When gets tagged will not revert to type or get flustered he has so much experience. He didn't let a nasty nasty cut vs Joshua phase him or even when Joshua had a mini decent spell - Usyk always looked in control.

I think you both mean he needs to do a lot more anaerobic work, not aerobic.
anaerobic work outs give you that quicker power of recovery after burst of work which is what you are both referring too, something a boxer needs more so of IMO, there long road work, sparring etc give them the aerobic work for steady long distance (again has you referred to mo farah & other runners in there classes) hill sprints, track sprints (100,s, 80’s etc) give you them burst of power like your throwing combinations with faster recovery to be able to go again, which a boxer needs to be more of than aerobic.
Being so muscular doesn’t help as your body needs a lot more oxygen to feed them muscles & the lactic acid build up is a lot more intense, muscles don’t make you stronger or hit harder, they look good for the ladies and in a pair of Speedo’s on the beach but other than that, good for fuk all IMO hahaha, the bottom line is he just isn’t a natural fighter, he’s done extremely well with his dedication & desire along with very well marketed to achieve what he has, no one can take that away from him, amazing in fact, but no matter how much he trains, who trains him, what he works on he will never beat a talented natural fighter with a fighters heart, grit & will because he isn’t one and that’s a fact and clear for anyone who knows genuinely anything about boxing, not just the casuals, pretend know it all’s & ar se kissers which the sport is full of.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him. .

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 07:14

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

I don't know how AJ can get rid of a genius like Joby Clayton with insights such as this: "What interested AJ from my teachings was when I spoke about grace and rhythm. Wild animals move in an incredibly graceful way whether they are the hunter or being hunted. Their movements are efficient for their very survival, there is no flair. I look to develop this grace within an individual, starting with how to breathe efficiently, then becoming aware of their body and how to generate relaxation. Breath work is an untapped avenue in sport and life. It affects the energy of the mind.”

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 13:31 McCracken was saying something at the every round I heard, it’s just it was always the same cautious simple advice. Never anything about stepping it up or changing the game plan- to hear him talk you’d think it had all gone according to plan.

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 16:36

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

I agree. So why is he putting up with the hangers-on?

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 18:42 I think the hangers on are AJ's decison. They give him confidence. .

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

Frostieballs wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:44

He wasn’t the guy shouting out during the rounds though, which has been attributed to him.

He is having to contend with that constantly, from guys he wouldn’t put in the corner. I won’t be surprised if he walks.

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

Coco wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 05:36

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

All depends on his deal with AJ.
IMO no way is he on 10%
More like a flat fee of like 30-50k for a 10 week camp.
So while it's good money, it's not retirement, I never need to work again money.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 05:44

Coco wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 05:36

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

All depends on his deal with AJ.
IMO no way is he on 10%
More like a flat fee of like 30-50k for a 10 week camp.
So while it's good money, it's not retirement, I never need to work again money.

It's nice, though, when everyone is living rent free in Sheffield. Food, physio, everything. If Man utd were allowed to train at England's place and nobody else was, there would be hell on.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 16:36

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 03:50

McCracken has worked for GB for over a decade. On top of that he must have earned well as Froch's trainer. He must have earned very well as Joshua's trainer. I would guess he is a very rich man.
He doesn't have "to contend with that". Being part of that set-up makes him look a yes-man.

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

I agree. So why is he putting up with the hangers-on?

The Gratest wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 08:14

While McCracken seems to be on the way out, coach Angel Fernandez is set to remain in the Joshua set-up, says Shields.

“I spoke to him about some other guy that came with him,” added Shields. “He explained to me that he really wants this guy there, I told him it’s no problem with me. Angel. He told me he wanted Angel to be with him and I told him, ‘Yeah, it’s no problem’.”

Frostieballs wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 07:44

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 16:36

Frostieballs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 08:53

I am sure he did very well out of Froch, and reasonably well out of GB in a salaried position, but we are talking apples and oranges here.

Being the trainer of HW world champ, who also happens to have been highly marketable, can bring life changing money.

I agree. So why is he putting up with the hangers-on?

Because it’s hard to walk away from big money.

Also, Rob does care about his fighters, so no doubt he wants to do right by AJ and ultimately would like to steer him back.

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 12:34 He needs a trainer to get his aggressive instincts back.

Imagine Freddie Roach training him.

Unfortunately I don’t think AJ would suit the open nature of the Wildcard and Freddie’s health doesn’t deserve all the spotlight the AJ circus would bring.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 12:03

Frostieballs wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 07:44

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 16:36

I agree. So why is he putting up with the hangers-on?

Because it’s hard to walk away from big money.

Also, Rob does care about his fighters, so no doubt he wants to do right by AJ and ultimately would like to steer him back.

If he's letting the hangers on interfere, he's not caring for his fighter - he is becoming part of the problem.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 17:58

BigDoofus wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 12:03

Frostieballs wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 07:44

Because it’s hard to walk away from big money.

Also, Rob does care about his fighters, so no doubt he wants to do right by AJ and ultimately would like to steer him back.

If he's letting the hangers on interfere, he's not caring for his fighter - he is becoming part of the problem.

You are taking like he has a choice in their involvement.

He has two options.

1. Put up with it.
2. Walk.

There is no in between.