BoxRec

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 14:07

Lenny Cravats wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 13:33 Tough one.

We need to think about Usyk in this as well.

Usyk isn't a young man. Winning the HW titles was his number 1 aim. He's done that now, so I'm not sure how long he really has left. I can see him retiring if he beats AJ, leaving on an incredible high. He's not a career heavyweight, so his desire to be a long time heavyweight champion won't be as heavily embedded as AJ or Fury or Wilder. Right now, he's No 1 ranked. That's his dream.

If Usyk beats AJ then retires, it blows it open for AJ to continue.

Even if he doesn't retire immediately, AJ is what, 4-5 years younger? That's a fair bit of time.

If he loses, I think he'll keep quiet for a while, hoping that Usyk enjoys his sunset before attempting a comeback like Fury did.
To me, it's more a question of how long Usyk carries on, as AJ isn't the kind of bloke that would be happy to stay around not being the best.

Usyk will be focused more on the money as any professional fighter; after the rematch its him banking the bigger wedge.

Joshua clearly knows he isn`t the best now - Fury would dominate him, even Joyce would likely stop him .. he has made his money; he is still young .. he doesnt strike me as the type who craves celebrity like Fury; he simply doesnt need boxing anymore.

Ever since he turned pro, his focus has always been undisputed HW champ with all the belts.
I don't think in his mind that has changed.
He is a goal setter, and thanks to some 'luck' he got his Olympic gold, he got a soft belt off Charles "I walk this earth like a god" Martin, another off old rusty Wlad, and the last one from an overwhelmed Parker.

Moot point boys. He is done with losing.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 17:45

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 17:07 do mexicans and afro caribeans not get along or something

He said "I'm afro Caribbean like Shields" like it's a big turning point.

Yep - race is a very big issue for him; as it is for all racists.

You'd imagine language would determine who he chooses - communication being vitally important to learn new things.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 14:16

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 14:07

Lenny Cravats wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 13:33 Tough one.

We need to think about Usyk in this as well.

Usyk isn't a young man. Winning the HW titles was his number 1 aim. He's done that now, so I'm not sure how long he really has left. I can see him retiring if he beats AJ, leaving on an incredible high. He's not a career heavyweight, so his desire to be a long time heavyweight champion won't be as heavily embedded as AJ or Fury or Wilder. Right now, he's No 1 ranked. That's his dream.

If Usyk beats AJ then retires, it blows it open for AJ to continue.

Even if he doesn't retire immediately, AJ is what, 4-5 years younger? That's a fair bit of time.

If he loses, I think he'll keep quiet for a while, hoping that Usyk enjoys his sunset before attempting a comeback like Fury did.
To me, it's more a question of how long Usyk carries on, as AJ isn't the kind of bloke that would be happy to stay around not being the best.

Usyk will be focused more on the money as any professional fighter; after the rematch its him banking the bigger wedge.

Joshua clearly knows he isn`t the best now - Fury would dominate him, even Joyce would likely stop him .. he has made his money; he is still young .. he doesnt strike me as the type who craves celebrity like Fury; he simply doesnt need boxing anymore.

Have you seen Tyson since his last fight? I haven't. AJ currently on IFL trying to win his fans back.

Maybe it's my Instagram feed.
But there is loads of Fury giving motivational speeches dressed up in his designer gear.
The TV series previously - and his Dad's claim that lack of recognition beating Wlad was a big impact on his mental health issues previously .. all identify someone who craves celebrity.

Joshua has his sponsors, and did the interviews after - which I assume his PR guys convinced him to do for his AJ brand.
Maybe I'm wrong; but Joshua strikes me as someone who would prefer to be less mainstream celebrity - where he could spout his true views and opinions on race.

For someone so heavily backed, commercially, he seems to hate doing work for them. He never even had his headphones on or his bottle of lucozade yesterday. Disgraceful.

Tyson doesn't even do social media. Goldstar do all The Gypsy King stuff. Tyson cant even spell.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 03:24 For someone so heavily backed, commercially, he seems to hate doing work for them. He never even had his headphones on or his bottle of lucozade yesterday. Disgraceful.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 03:25 Tyson doesn't even do social media. Goldstar do all The Gypsy King stuff. Tyson cant even spell.

If that's not Fury on my Instagram - then Gold star look an absolute double of him fair play

tonyevs wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 04:56

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 03:25 Tyson doesn't even do social media. Goldstar do all The Gypsy King stuff. Tyson cant even spell.

If that's not Fury on my Instagram - then Gold star look an absolute double of him fair play

Yeah - that video to Deontay wishing him a happy birthday was some awesome deepfake.

I actually don’t think Tyson likes all of the media too much except in promoting a fight but his family seems to. Paris, Tommy and big John can’t get enough it seems.

maverick23 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 05:30

tonyevs wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 04:56

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 03:25 Tyson doesn't even do social media. Goldstar do all The Gypsy King stuff. Tyson cant even spell.

If that's not Fury on my Instagram - then Gold star look an absolute double of him fair play

Yeah - that video to Deontay wishing him a happy birthday was some awesome deepfake.

I actually don’t think Tyson likes all of the media too much except in promoting a fight but his family seems to. Paris, Tommy and big John can’t get enough it seems.

Obviously goldstar are official. They have his backing. Big John is managed by them as well. Tommy gets his living from social media. He's about to get 1.5m for a four round fight.

Without meaning to sound critical - how has this thread gone to about how Media Savvy Fury is and how much he does or doesn't enjoy the media?

All I can say is listening to the AJ interview I am quietly more confident that Usyk does beat him again. You can never count out someone of AJ size and general athleticism - he packs a punch and is pretty fast for his size - but his ring IQ is even worse than I thought it was. The guy said he didn't change tactics mid fight cos he wasn't told do and, crucially, didn't feel he needed too cos "he was touching him with the jab". His lack of knowledge and perception of scoring fights he is involved in is frightengly bad.

stujones wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 05:51 Without meaning to sound critical - how has this thread gone to about how Media Savvy Fury is and how much he does or doesn't enjoy the media?

All I can say is listening to the AJ interview I am quietly more confident that Usyk does beat him again. You can never count out someone of AJ size and general athleticism - he packs a punch and is pretty fast for his size - but his ring IQ is even worse than I thought it was. The guy said he didn't change tactics mid fight cos he wasn't told do and, crucially, didn't feel he needed too cos "he was touching him with the jab". His lack of knowledge and perception of scoring fights he is involved in is frightengly bad.

He's admitted asking Clifton Mitchell advice in the introductions. That's very, very bad.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 06:03

stujones wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 05:51 Without meaning to sound critical - how has this thread gone to about how Media Savvy Fury is and how much he does or doesn't enjoy the media?

All I can say is listening to the AJ interview I am quietly more confident that Usyk does beat him again. You can never count out someone of AJ size and general athleticism - he packs a punch and is pretty fast for his size - but his ring IQ is even worse than I thought it was. The guy said he didn't change tactics mid fight cos he wasn't told do and, crucially, didn't feel he needed too cos "he was touching him with the jab". His lack of knowledge and perception of scoring fights he is involved in is frightengly bad.

He's admitted asking Clifton Mitchell advice in the introductions. That's very, very bad.

Yes and based on Mitchell seeing Usyk vs Bellew - you couldn't gage Usyk on that fight - I think the only people that couldn't see Usyk was in complete control and was playing with Bellew with the sky commentators - Bellew won rounds cos Usyk let him win rounds.

He admitted that he doesn't care about score cards and has no interest in them. I think what was apparent in the interview was AJ's comments to McCraken during the first Ruiz fight in which the press and fans said "clearly AJ had some kind of breakdown as he wouldn't be saying such daft things" probably happens more regularly than we thought and it wasn't just in these setback fights. You don't need to be a boxing historian to be a boxer, but you need to know what judges are looking for and you need to know YOURSELF when things aren't going your way.

WIth every setback there is going to be some change in camp I predict, cos he is such a robot he cannot take responsibility. He is a strange character, talks in riddles, accepts responsibility but then at the same time diffuses responsibility by saying the corner didn't tell him he was needing to change tactics.

Unfortunately, he is not up against a weights machine and a punch bag when he steps into the ropes - they can (on occasion) fight back - but in reality he is not used to that. Really 3 times he's fought someone who made him think - 1) Was just a bit too old and chinny (weary) himself to follow it up, the other 2 times he lost handily. Dillion White hurt him yes, but in essence it was one moment in what was a pretty one sided fight and Dillon was in pretty appalling condition. Even in the fights which has gone far, his athleticism (or in some cases his youth) has negated any trouble and there's been no need for him to do anything different - Parker, Ruiz 2, Takam, Povetkin and Pulev who went several rounds didn't really make him change tactics mid fight as he was in control. Last time out, there was a need but because his corner didn't tell him, it seems like only he out of the 70K people in the arena couldn't see the need. Its a worry.

Perhaps I would make a suggestion to AJ - early in the camp - a light spar (no KOs, just touches) with someone durable - but with a referee and three qualified judges and then go the distance and listen to the cards and learn of the judges why they scored the fight as they did.

I thought AJ came across horribly in the recent Ifl interview. He seems lost and talks utter nonsense.

its hard because aj i doubt in his mind wants to be fighting gatekeeper fighters at 31 , could easy seeing him going in to tv and leaving fighting behind , he hasnt fought the rematch yet

stujones wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 05:51 Without meaning to sound critical - how has this thread gone to about how Media Savvy Fury is and how much he does or doesn't enjoy the media?

All I can say is listening to the AJ interview I am quietly more confident that Usyk does beat him again. You can never count out someone of AJ size and general athleticism - he packs a punch and is pretty fast for his size - but his ring IQ is even worse than I thought it was. The guy said he didn't change tactics mid fight cos he wasn't told do and, crucially, didn't feel he needed too cos "he was touching him with the jab". His lack of knowledge and perception of scoring fights he is involved in is frightengly bad.

I go along with this. Although I did like Joshua's talk about why he took the rematch, but as you say the rest was more than a little worrying.

However, I do hope Josh wins the rematch, because we will be in for a great time with Fury Vs Joshua, but also Whyte, Joyce and Dubois could keep us entertained for the next 2 to 3 years all fighting each other.

Add in Hughie, Babic, Wardley and Chisora (if he can get past Parker) - For some more decent domestic dust ups.

Usyk is good on his feet , his distancing , knowingg his distance is second too non ,,, Usyk , takes 1 inch step back , leans back ,, a minute amount , AJ falls 6 inches short ,,,, Usyk steps forward 1 inch , shoulder behind punch , and has enough room to drive his fist out the back of AJ's head ..

Its all in the feet what does AJ have to do , unsettle his movement , and you CANNOT do that with single punches ,,, he has to let them go , hit his chin , hit his , chest , hit his arms , hit his gloves and force the mistake , but guess what , he can't , becuase he lifts weights instead of doing boxing training ,,,, Oh he might change the routine for this fight , but it will not matter not enough time , and there will still be other coaches in his ear telling him he's doing wrong , they don't want to lose the t shirt and payday