Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 30 Oct 2021, 05:22
by H8Usernames
apollo creed wrote: ↑30 Oct 2021, 04:53
Froch is already a legit smw HOF'er and he defeated: a young-undefeated Jean Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell, prime Arthur Abraham, undefeated Lucian Bute, Kessler and a prime-undefeated Groves! Canelo can only dream to have this resume at smw!
Kessler is a legit former champion too! He defeated a prime-undefeated Librado Andrade and a prime-undefeated Carl Froch! Still a better resume than Canelo has @ 168 lbs!
Btw Cotto beat a crippled-one-legged-old version of Martinez!
What a hall of fame.
Carl does get limited credit for beating undefeated Jean Pascal but how much? Is it a better win than Canelo's over Calllum Smith? Nah.
Jermain Taylor was a corpse at this point in his career. Dirrell never exactly broke into the elite ranks. Good job beating overhyped Arthur Abrahams but overhyped he was. Bute and Groves aren't exactly atg's. And Kessler was nothing.
So what's left of this stuff? Some mediocre world champion with a big mouth and a lousy attitude. He and Kessler were really overhyped.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 30 Oct 2021, 10:40
by Mexi-Box
apollo creed wrote: ↑30 Oct 2021, 04:53
Froch is already a legit smw HOF'er and he defeated: a young-undefeated Jean Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell, prime Arthur Abraham, undefeated Lucian Bute, Kessler and a prime-undefeated Groves! Canelo can only dream to have this resume at smw!
Kessler is a legit former champion too! He defeated a prime-undefeated Librado Andrade and a prime-undefeated Carl Froch! Still a better resume than Canelo has @ 168 lbs!
Btw Cotto beat a crippled-one-legged-old version of Martinez!
That Jermain Taylor was past it. May as well hail Canelo's win over Shane Mosley. C'mon, if you really need to pad our your career with late-stage Jermain Taylor, that's not much of a career. He didn't beat Andre Dirrell by the way. The majority had him losing that fight, but even if you give him Andre Dirrell, Dirrell has done nothing before or since that fight.
Groves was his best win for sure, but Canelo's win over Callum Smith was better. Canelo already has a superior resume, ffs.
Nah, Cotto, the underdog, beat the hell out of that diva Martinez. You should've seen the build up. Someone on ESB predicted exactly how the fight would play out, and everyone laughed at him. People act like Martinez needed crutches to get to the ring, but it's all just hindsight as Cotto showed everyone that Euro level is nowhere near the talent of world level.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 04:04
by jezzamundo
I expect he would, but whether his management would let him try is another matter.
I think Ward beats Canelo by a clear decision - he's all wrong for him.
Froch-Canelo is a pick-em fight - Canelo has the speed and skills advantage, but Froch is tough and much bigger. I'd have to favour Froch to win a close decision, or maybe Canelo would squeak a controversial decision.
Kessler-Canelo is another great matchup - I'd slightly favour Canelo to take a close decision in that one, but it would be another highly competitive fight.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 09:34
by apollo creed
jezzamundo wrote: ↑31 Oct 2021, 04:04
I expect he would, but whether his management would let him try is another matter.
I think Ward beats Canelo by a clear decision - he's all wrong for him.
Froch-Canelo is a pick-em fight - Canelo has the speed and skills advantage, but Froch is tough and much bigger. I'd have to favour Froch to win a close decision, or maybe Canelo would squeak a controversial decision.
Kessler-Canelo is another great matchup - I'd slightly favour Canelo to take a close decision in that one, but it would be another highly competitive fight.
Nice objective answers. Also the S6 version of Andre Dirrell would be a tricky fight for Canelo.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 16:00
by Cyclops
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑30 Oct 2021, 10:40
Cotto, the underdog, beat the hell out of that diva Martinez. You should've seen the build up. Someone on ESB predicted exactly how the fight would play out, and everyone laughed at him. People act like Martinez needed crutches to get to the ring, but it's all just hindsight as Cotto showed everyone that Euro level is nowhere near the talent of world level.
Decent trolling effort, but Martinez will forever be immortalised in KO highlight reels as the guy that absolutely iced the giant Paul Williams, a KO where Williams looked like he was dead, and Williams had the win over Cotto's nemesis Margarito and made Floyd go into retirement for a year or two so that he didn't have to face the big fella. Martinez also beat Kelly Pavlik. Remember him? A really good middleweight champion. Weight bully Chavez jnr (recycled, pathetically, at 168 by the Ginger Prince years later, after Canelo had run away crying from prime GGG because the WBC was "telling him what to do" to fight somebody smaller and crapper than him) was beaten up for round after round by Martinez until Martinez's knee went and there was an exciting final round. After that, Martinez was essentially a cripple and sold his title to the tiny Cotto, who should never have been up at MW anyway, while wearing knee braces.
The final sentence is really the best line of your post: "European level."
You can't be so braindead as to think that Argentina is in Europe? You've got to be yanking our chains, right?
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑30 Oct 2021, 10:40
Cotto, the underdog, beat the hell out of that diva Martinez. You should've seen the build up. Someone on ESB predicted exactly how the fight would play out, and everyone laughed at him. People act like Martinez needed crutches to get to the ring, but it's all just hindsight as Cotto showed everyone that Euro level is nowhere near the talent of world level.
Decent trolling effort, but Martinez will forever be immortalised in KO highlight reels as the guy that absolutely iced the giant Paul Williams, a KO where Williams looked like he was dead, and Williams had the win over Cotto's nemesis Margarito and made Floyd go into retirement for a year or two so that he didn't have to face the big fella. Martinez also beat Kelly Pavlik. Remember him? A really good middleweight champion. Weight bully Chavez jnr (recycled, pathetically, at 168 by the Ginger Prince years later, after Canelo had run away crying from prime GGG because the WBC was "telling him what to do" to fight somebody smaller and crapper than him) was beaten up for round after round by Martinez until Martinez's knee went and there was an exciting final round. After that, Martinez was essentially a cripple and sold his title to the tiny Cotto, who should never have been up at MW anyway, while wearing knee braces.
The final sentence is really the best line of your post: "European level."
You can't be so braindead as to think that Argentina is in Europe? You've got to be yanking our chains, right?
You know zero about boxing if you think Martinez is nothing more than a Euro-level fighter that was beating up on Euro-level dudes. WTF, it doesn't matter where he was born! He made his name beating up on guys like Macklin, Murray, and Barker. The minute the division heats up, these guys are nowhere to be found.
Dude got beat pillar-to-pillar by Cotto who was 2 weight divisions removed from his best weight and severely aged. While Cotto is forever solidified as a HoF fighter, Martinez is a freaking footnote. Maybe learn a bit about boxing before some Euro-level dude like Sergio Martinez impresses you ROFL!!!!
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 16:35
by Mexi-Box
jezzamundo wrote: ↑31 Oct 2021, 04:04
I expect he would, but whether his management would let him try is another matter.
I think Ward beats Canelo by a clear decision - he's all wrong for him.
Froch-Canelo is a pick-em fight - Canelo has the speed and skills advantage, but Froch is tough and much bigger. I'd have to favour Froch to win a close decision, or maybe Canelo would squeak a controversial decision.
Kessler-Canelo is another great matchup - I'd slightly favour Canelo to take a close decision in that one, but it would be another highly competitive fight.
Froch would be the easiest fighter. Froch is a big plodder that doesn't use his size. Canelo would destroy him. Kessler is a tougher matchup because he's so awkward, but I still don't give him much of a chance.
Ward would be the toughest, and I'd say it's a toss-up.
I hate that argument that "Ward is all wrong." They were saying the same thing about Kovalev/Ward, and Kovalev clearly beat outboxed him in their fight. Plus, Ward will be headbutting like crazy.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 16:50
by apollo creed
Cinnamonboy Canelo would bite off more than he can chew VS the big boys from S6(Ward,Froch,Dirrell and Kessler).
Even the version of Sakio Bika that fought Calzaghe, Bute and Ward would give trouble to Canelo.
Cotto was very lucky to fight a crippled-one-legged-old Martinez. Martinez that K.O'ed P.W would stop Cotton too.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑30 Oct 2021, 10:40
Cotto, the underdog, beat the hell out of that diva Martinez. You should've seen the build up. Someone on ESB predicted exactly how the fight would play out, and everyone laughed at him. People act like Martinez needed crutches to get to the ring, but it's all just hindsight as Cotto showed everyone that Euro level is nowhere near the talent of world level.
Decent trolling effort, but Martinez will forever be immortalised in KO highlight reels as the guy that absolutely iced the giant Paul Williams, a KO where Williams looked like he was dead, and Williams had the win over Cotto's nemesis Margarito and made Floyd go into retirement for a year or two so that he didn't have to face the big fella. Martinez also beat Kelly Pavlik. Remember him? A really good middleweight champion. Weight bully Chavez jnr (recycled, pathetically, at 168 by the Ginger Prince years later, after Canelo had run away crying from prime GGG because the WBC was "telling him what to do" to fight somebody smaller and crapper than him) was beaten up for round after round by Martinez until Martinez's knee went and there was an exciting final round. After that, Martinez was essentially a cripple and sold his title to the tiny Cotto, who should never have been up at MW anyway, while wearing knee braces.
The final sentence is really the best line of your post: "European level."
You can't be so braindead as to think that Argentina is in Europe? You've got to be yanking our chains, right?
You know zero about boxing if you think Martinez is nothing more than a Euro-level fighter that was beating up on Euro-level dudes. WTF, it doesn't matter where he was born! He made his name beating up on guys like Macklin, Murray, and Barker. The minute the division heats up, these guys are nowhere to be found.
Dude got beat pillar-to-pillar by Cotto who was 2 weight divisions removed from his best weight and severely aged. While Cotto is forever solidified as a HoF fighter, Martinez is a freaking footnote. Maybe learn a bit about boxing before some Euro-level dude like Sergio Martinez impresses you ROFL!!!!
He made his name losing a FOTY candidate that many thought he was short changed in against bogeyman Paul Williams, and then absolutely banjo'd Williams in the rematch. He also was the only person, besides Bernard Hopkins, to beat a still fresh Kelly Pavlik, a guy regarded amongst many to be amongst Hopkin's best wins if not Hopkins best performance.
He also battered and out-pointed the undefeated weight bully Chavez jnr all the way back in 2012, while your hero Canelo waited another 5 years and a few more losses to decide that Chavez was a legit opponent to duck a fight with GGG for, just after fighting 'Euro level' midget Liam Smith and the mighty ex-lightweight porcelain chinned Skype wanker Amir Khan.
You know less about boxing than Geography
TROLL HARDER.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Cyclops wrote: ↑31 Oct 2021, 16:00
Decent trolling effort, but Martinez will forever be immortalised in KO highlight reels as the guy that absolutely iced the giant Paul Williams, a KO where Williams looked like he was dead, and Williams had the win over Cotto's nemesis Margarito and made Floyd go into retirement for a year or two so that he didn't have to face the big fella. Martinez also beat Kelly Pavlik. Remember him? A really good middleweight champion. Weight bully Chavez jnr (recycled, pathetically, at 168 by the Ginger Prince years later, after Canelo had run away crying from prime GGG because the WBC was "telling him what to do" to fight somebody smaller and crapper than him) was beaten up for round after round by Martinez until Martinez's knee went and there was an exciting final round. After that, Martinez was essentially a cripple and sold his title to the tiny Cotto, who should never have been up at MW anyway, while wearing knee braces.
The final sentence is really the best line of your post: "European level."
You can't be so braindead as to think that Argentina is in Europe? You've got to be yanking our chains, right?
You know zero about boxing if you think Martinez is nothing more than a Euro-level fighter that was beating up on Euro-level dudes. WTF, it doesn't matter where he was born! He made his name beating up on guys like Macklin, Murray, and Barker. The minute the division heats up, these guys are nowhere to be found.
Dude got beat pillar-to-pillar by Cotto who was 2 weight divisions removed from his best weight and severely aged. While Cotto is forever solidified as a HoF fighter, Martinez is a freaking footnote. Maybe learn a bit about boxing before some Euro-level dude like Sergio Martinez impresses you ROFL!!!!
He made his name losing a FOTY candidate that many thought he was short changed in against bogeyman Paul Williams, and then absolutely banjo'd Williams in the rematch. He also was the only person, besides Bernard Hopkins, to beat a still fresh Kelly Pavlik, a guy regarded amongst many to be amongst Hopkin's best wins if not Hopkins best performance.
He also battered and out-pointed the undefeated weight bully Chavez jnr all the way back in 2012, while your hero Canelo waited another 5 years and a few more losses to decide that Chavez was a legit opponent to duck a fight with GGG for, just after fighting 'Euro level' midget Liam Smith and the mighty ex-lightweight porcelain chinned Skype wanker Amir Khan.
You know less about boxing than Geography
TROLL HARDER.
lol true
Martinez beat a 180+ lbs undefeated JCCjr @ 160 lbs. Canelo beat a washed up JCCJr.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 16:45
by Mexi-Box
LOL, yeah world-beater Chavez Jr. who wouldn't sniff a world title in this era. Good thing Chavez Jr. isn't even in Canelo's best wins. It's funny that he's Martinez's best win, though. Goes to show you how his resume is thinner than the paper it's written on.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:43
by Cyclops
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑01 Nov 2021, 16:45
LOL, yeah world-beater Chavez Jr. who wouldn't sniff a world title in this era. Good thing Chavez Jr. isn't even in Canelo's best wins. It's funny that he's Martinez's best win, though. Goes to show you how his resume is thinner than the paper it's written on.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:45
by margaret thatcher
williams and pavlik are both better wins than jr
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:55
by Cyclops
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2021, 19:45
williams and pavlik are both better wins than jr
Oh, massively. They were both extremely impressive wins.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑01 Nov 2021, 16:45
LOL, yeah world-beater Chavez Jr. who wouldn't sniff a world title in this era. Good thing Chavez Jr. isn't even in Canelo's best wins. It's funny that he's Martinez's best win, though. Goes to show you how his resume is thinner than the paper it's written on.
Yawn, right after gets beaten by Lara who Canelo beat.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 16:06
by golden_labrador
the only way Canello can be beaten right now is on points by clever, fast boxers who can avoid his biggest punches, à la Mayweather.
he'd slug it out with the rest of these guys to a draw at worst, i reckon.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 16:29
by brilo33
i think he would beat all of them yea, he has the skills to beat all of them , this age now canelo or maybe 2 years ago, he is a brittilant boxer fighter
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 16:34
by jamesmcdonnell
Froch v Canelo would have been an interesting one. Canelo isn't a slick speedy fighter, he's an adaptable counterpuncher, who can fight going forward or back, making him a very tricky proposition
Golovkin did very well in both fights on the front foot, boxing his way in, applying educated pressure.
Froch tended to fight long, and was more flat footed, but could turn up the gas and pour on the punches when needed, and was extremely fit and tough as old boots with it.
Can't see either man dominating the other here.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 16:47
by brilo33
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 16:34
Froch v Canelo would have been an interesting one. Canelo isn't a slick speedy fighter, he's an adaptable counterpuncher, who can fight going forward or back, making him a very tricky proposition
Golovkin did very well in both fights on the front foot, boxing his way in, applying educated pressure.
Froch tended to fight long, and was more flat footed, but could turn up the gas and pour on the punches when needed, and was extremely fit and tough as old boots with it.
Can't see either man dominating the other here.
i think canelo would of been to strong for carl to trade with , he moves to well aswell canelo not saying its a given by any stretch, iam not sure what would be carls best way to fight him, carl has great engine so maybe fight him like the Pascal fight i dont know
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 17:32
by jamesmcdonnell
Froch was a very strong man, big guy too. Met j once after a fight in the dressing room. I'm 6 2 and back then I was about 14 7 and In decent shape and he was way broader than me.
I think it would have been a distance fight. Froch had great endurance and got stronger as a fight went on. He could be outboxed, but rarely outfought.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 17:35
by Cent0089
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 17:32
Froch was a very strong man, big guy too. Met j once after a fight in the dressing room. I'm 6 2 and back then I was about 14 7 and In decent shape and he was way broader than me.
I think it would have been a distance fight. Froch had great endurance and got stronger as a fight went on. He could be outboxed, but rarely outfought.
Ive always wondered how much Froch weighed in ring. He was skinny rat ripped to the bone at weigh in, he was definitely 180+ in ring. Carl Froch is a perfect example how strength, toughnes and stamina can help you to defeat better boxers.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 20:06
by brilo33
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 17:32
Froch was a very strong man, big guy too. Met j once after a fight in the dressing room. I'm 6 2 and back then I was about 14 7 and In decent shape and he was way broader than me.
I think it would have been a distance fight. Froch had great endurance and got stronger as a fight went on. He could be outboxed, but rarely outfought.
yea thats what i am thinking froch keeps it tight early 4 to 6 land or try to land a few heavy shots 6 on see if he can bring it to saul. but saul in the ggg fights he can trade and in the later rds too, i think saul in the kk fight its hard to take much from it as kk was finished i mean krusher, carl is problay my fav brit fighter all time,i think his heart would find it hard to lose to a little man i just think Alvarez at 30 is just unbeatable
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 20:11
by brilo33
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 17:32
Froch was a very strong man, big guy too. Met j once after a fight in the dressing room. I'm 6 2 and back then I was about 14 7 and In decent shape and he was way broader than me.
I think it would have been a distance fight. Froch had great endurance and got stronger as a fight went on. He could be outboxed, but rarely outfought.
even now you can see carl is in top shape , he always was which would go in his favour he is deffo an imposing character, id go 55 45 saul , if in nottingham fu... it or london i would go 50/50
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 05 Nov 2021, 04:09
by Enlightened-One
Cent0089 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 17:35Ive always wondered how much Froch weighed in ring. He was skinny rat ripped to the bone at weigh in, he was definitely 180+ in ring. Carl Froch is a perfect example how strength, toughnes and stamina can help you to defeat better boxers.
Froch was 176.5lbs on the first day of his 12-week training camp for the Yusaf Mack bout, weighing 171lbs during fight-week.
He also claimed he weighed on 172lbs when he entered the ring for the Bute bout, which he claimed was the norm.
Froch entered training camp at 175lbs for the Andre Ward bout.
The guy took his diet very seriously! Stuck to the same regime all-year-round. And he claimed he walked around (between fights) weighing very close to his fighting weight.
Despite his relatively light rehydration weight, Carl Froch believed he could have never competed at 160lbs, because he was too ripped and couldn’t shift the weight.
Re: If in this time young Ward, Froch and Kessler would be SMW champs, would Canelo still want to be undisputed smw cham
Posted: 05 Nov 2021, 07:00
by The Gratest
Uuuh, Canelo would be nailing a rehydration clause into the Froch contract.
I'd pick SOG to punch, maul, hug and frustrate Canelo and come away with a close points win.
Froch loved a tear up. If the opponent was willing to stand in front of him and give Froch the opportunity to punch him very hard in the face then Froch could look great. I remember the first 5-6 rounds of the first Groves fight though, it looked painfully one-sided with how often he was getting caught and outboxed by Groves. The man has incredible will and stamina though, and came back to get the win. Canelo's a lot cuter than Groves though ( boxingwise, not lookswise...or maybe both?), adept at slipping, countering and adapting during a fight, working out opponents habits and timing them. I can't see him (Canelo) fading late on and i'd pick him to outpoint Froch by 3-4 rounds.
Kessler, ditto. A good, solid champion, but not exceptional and it would need someone exceptional to beat this very dedicated version of Canelo.
boxingwise, not lookswise...or maybe both?), adept at slipping, countering and adapting during a fight, working out opponents habits and timing them. I can't see him (Canelo) fading late on and i'd pick him to outpoint Froch by 3-4 rounds.