BoxRec

600450 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 20:56 Duran looked like he may have tanked this fight, there was not the typical level of passion and fury in his performance. Like No Mas, this fight has always bothered me. No Mas looked like a very clearcut tank job. Just watch Duran's focus and intensity in the ring before the first and second SRL fights... totally totally different. Duran was a ghost in No Mas. He had all the leverage too to tell SRL, I will take two optional defenses first then do the rematch in mid 1981. Duran looked like he was paid off to tank to the Madison Ave golden boy. Duran just couldnt seem to get fully inspired vs Benitez, very unDuran like performance.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:43

600450 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 20:56 Duran looked like he may have tanked this fight, there was not the typical level of passion and fury in his performance. Like No Mas, this fight has always bothered me. No Mas looked like a very clearcut tank job. Just watch Duran's focus and intensity in the ring before the first and second SRL fights... totally totally different. Duran was a ghost in No Mas. He had all the leverage too to tell SRL, I will take two optional defenses first then do the rematch in mid 1981. Duran looked like he was paid off to tank to the Madison Ave golden boy. Duran just couldnt seem to get fully inspired vs Benitez, very unDuran like performance.

The two fastest and slickest fighters he faced and some how he threw the fights rather than got outboxed…

This is worse than Elmers excuses.

600450 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:49

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:43

600450 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 20:56 Duran looked like he may have tanked this fight, there was not the typical level of passion and fury in his performance. Like No Mas, this fight has always bothered me. No Mas looked like a very clearcut tank job. Just watch Duran's focus and intensity in the ring before the first and second SRL fights... totally totally different. Duran was a ghost in No Mas. He had all the leverage too to tell SRL, I will take two optional defenses first then do the rematch in mid 1981. Duran looked like he was paid off to tank to the Madison Ave golden boy. Duran just couldnt seem to get fully inspired vs Benitez, very unDuran like performance.

The two fastest and slickest fighters he faced and some how he threw the fights rather than got outboxed…

This is worse than Elmers excuses.

No mas was definitely a throw. I rewatched Benitez vs Duran and Duran just didn't have it that night. The full fire was not there and Benitez was more fired up and passionate. This was Duran's 74th fight. THat's a lot of mileage. He was burnt out. The first Leonard fight win took a lot out of him, he never reached that level again, well maybe the Moore fight was close. But there was an element of Duran going through the motions. Just physically and spiritually impossible to be as intense for all fights as he was on June 20, 1980. He's human.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:51

600450 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:49

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:43

The two fastest and slickest fighters he faced and some how he threw the fights rather than got outboxed…

This is worse than Elmers excuses.

No mas was definitely a throw. I rewatched Benitez vs Duran and Duran just didn't have it that night. The full fire was not there and Benitez was more fired up and passionate. This was Duran's 74th fight. THat's a lot of mileage. He was burnt out. The first Leonard fight win took a lot out of him, he never reached that level again, well maybe the Moore fight was close. But there was an element of Duran going through the motions. Just physically and spiritually impossible to be as intense for all fights as he was on June 20, 1980. He's human.

I know and therefore beatable by better boxers.

600450 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 13:05

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:51

600450 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:49

No mas was definitely a throw. I rewatched Benitez vs Duran and Duran just didn't have it that night. The full fire was not there and Benitez was more fired up and passionate. This was Duran's 74th fight. THat's a lot of mileage. He was burnt out. The first Leonard fight win took a lot out of him, he never reached that level again, well maybe the Moore fight was close. But there was an element of Duran going through the motions. Just physically and spiritually impossible to be as intense for all fights as he was on June 20, 1980. He's human.

I know and therefore beatable by better boxers.

Nobody coudl ever beat Duran the night of June 20, 1980 but SRL deserves much credit for inspiring that ultimate level of Duran.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 13:14

600450 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 13:05

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:51

I know and therefore beatable by better boxers.

Nobody coudl ever beat Duran the night of June 20, 1980 but SRL deserves much credit for inspiring that ultimate level of Duran.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 16:22 Duran would not have beaten Ray Leonard of November 25, 1980. Ray Robinson was the only welter that may have. Robinson is the only welterweight who should be rated ahead of Leonard.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 16:22 Duran would not have beaten Ray Leonard of November 25, 1980. Ray Robinson was the only welter that may have. Robinson is the only welterweight who should be rated ahead of Leonard.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:46

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

The ONLY MAN to really beat Roberto Duran in Duran's prime was Esteban De Jesus. Sugar Ray caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT by a calculated strategy of baiting Duran's management team for $8 million dollars.

It had to be done. American boxing was embarrassed that a guy that came from 12 pounds under, without knowing no English language and not American, whupped the Golden Boy. That was all was that second fight was all about.

American boxing had to be redeemed quickly.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:41

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

Duran kicked Sugar Ray's ass! What are you talking about? That fight was not a close fight. It looked close because of Sugar Ray's holding and clutching like a sissy.....Fight!

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 19:18

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

I agree. It’s the same with the Ali losing his prime crap. Lots of fighters lost time to war. Nobody gets a bigger pass than Ali and he didn’t even go to the fighting.

He could have been training his ass off but he went and got fat and lazy and used to the good life.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 09:53

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:41

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

Duran kicked Sugar Ray's ass! What are you talking about? That fight was not a close fight. It looked close because of Sugar Ray's holding and clutching like a sissy.....Fight!

Kicked his a$$? you had Duran winning by three points. Winning a decision by three points is not an a$$ kicking.
A TKO8? Maybe.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 22:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:46

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 17:00 Duran didn't beat Leonard by that much in Montreal. elmersalsa only had Duran winning by three points. Others had it closer. It was a very competitive fight.
Leonard fought better in the 2nd fight than the first. Therefore it stands to reason that Leonard of the second fight would have beat Duran of the first. Of course we don't know for sure because it didn't happen, and obviously couldn't happen..
I was just countering the constant nobody could have beaten the Duran of June of 1980 crap that we hear all the time.

I agree that nobody is invincible. We should go by what happened more than guessing what might have happened.

Duran lost to DeJesus and Leonard. I count the Benitez loss as well. It happened.
Leonard lost to Duran; nobody else during his prime.

It just galls me with the crap we hear from some people about poor Roberto.

The ONLY MAN to really beat Roberto Duran in Duran's prime was Esteban De Jesus. Sugar Ray caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT by a calculated strategy of baiting Duran's management team for $8 million dollars.

It had to be done. American boxing was embarrassed that a guy that came from 12 pounds under, without knowing no English language and not American, whupped the Golden Boy. That was all was that second fight was all about.

American boxing had to be redeemed quickly.

He didn’t know no English? I have to watch the fight again after that revelation. Did he know no English in the second fight too? Changes everything for me.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:22

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 22:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:46

The ONLY MAN to really beat Roberto Duran in Duran's prime was Esteban De Jesus. Sugar Ray caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT by a calculated strategy of baiting Duran's management team for $8 million dollars.

It had to be done. American boxing was embarrassed that a guy that came from 12 pounds under, without knowing no English language and not American, whupped the Golden Boy. That was all was that second fight was all about.

American boxing had to be redeemed quickly.

He didn’t know no English? I have to watch the fight again after that revelation. Did he know no English in the second fight too? Changes everything for me.

Maybe you're not American. The guy that didn't know English, looks like an Indian, and was considered as a bully in the American media whupped their Golden Boy....Bad!

That second fight was a nationalistic hoax to get the title back. It had to be done as quickly as possible. It could not stay that way by no means.

And the bait of $8 million dollars worked. Big time! An offer that nobody in their right mind would refuse. Blame Duran's management team for that. It was all obvious that Sugar Ray couldn't beat him at Duran's very best.

American boxing and hero had to be redeemed....quickly if they can.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:15

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 09:53

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 21:41
Duran kicked Sugar Ray's ass! What are you talking about? That fight was not a close fight. It looked close because of Sugar Ray's holding and clutching like a sissy.....Fight!

Kicked his a$$? you had Duran winning by three points. Winning a decision by three points is not an a$$ kicking.
A TKO8? Maybe.

Look at Sugar Ray's face before and after the fight in Montreal. He looked like a Lightweight whupped him bad to me.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:32

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:22

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 22:15

He didn’t know no English? I have to watch the fight again after that revelation. Did he know no English in the second fight too? Changes everything for me.

Maybe you're not American. The guy that didn't know English, looks like an Indian, and was considered as a bully in the American media whupped their Golden Boy....Bad!

That second fight was a nationalistic hoax to get the title back. It had to be done as quickly as possible. It could not stay that way by no means.

And the bait of $8 million dollars worked. Big time! An offer that nobody in their right mind would refuse. Blame Duran's management team for that. It was all obvious that Sugar Ray couldn't beat him at Duran's very best.

American boxing and hero had to be redeemed....quickly if they can.

I just wish he had learned English before he turned his back and quit in the rematch. Instead of No Mas, he could have said ‘please stop hitting me’ and the fight wouldn’t have had the same ring to it.

Damn shame!

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 16:35

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:15

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 09:53

Kicked his a$$? you had Duran winning by three points. Winning a decision by three points is not an a$$ kicking.
A TKO8? Maybe.

Look at Sugar Ray's face before and after the fight in Montreal. He looked like a Lightweight whupped him bad to me.

According the scales, Duran was a welterweight. But hey, that's just a fact.
According to you, Duran only won by just three points. But hey, that is it just a fact that you said it.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 23:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 16:35

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 13:15

Look at Sugar Ray's face before and after the fight in Montreal. He looked like a Lightweight whupped him bad to me.

According the scales, Duran was a welterweight. But hey, that's just a fact.
According to you, Duran only won by just three points. But hey, that is it just a fact that you said it.

Duran was not a natural Welterweight. He was not associated with that division. He was associated as a Lightweight, though. The ONLY MAN that whupped Sugar Ray in Sugar Ray's prime. A Lightweight.

Tommy Hearns didn't do it
Marvelous didn't do it.
Wilfred Benitez didn't do it.
All of the 3 were at their very best.

But when the Lightweight fought the Golden Boy Leonard at THEIR VERY BEST, Duran whupped him!

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑01 Mar 2022, 08:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 23:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 16:35
According the scales, Duran was a welterweight. But hey, that's just a fact.
According to you, Duran only won by just three points. But hey, that is it just a fact that you said it.

Duran was not a natural Welterweight. He was not associated with that division. He was associated as a Lightweight, though. The ONLY MAN that whupped Sugar Ray in Sugar Ray's prime. A Lightweight.

Tommy Hearns didn't do it
Marvelous didn't do it.
Wilfred Benitez didn't do it.
All of the 3 were at their very best.

But when the Lightweight fought the Golden Boy Leonard at THEIR VERY BEST, Duran whupped him!

Please, no mas