BoxRec

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 05:24 Fury is better than those fighters... But id he was lucky to get away with any of them, let alone all of them...

By and large I can't fault Fury's performances in terms of getting the W, but for me it's the fights he hasn't had. Ali lost a few but always backed his talk, whereas Fury didn't come good against the stiff idiot, or as yet the bodybuilder or blown-up middleweight.

He'd probably have beaten Price, but didn't. He'd maybe have beaten AJ before Ruiz got to him, but again... And now I'm thinking he doesn't want this ‘blown-up middleweight’ because — as much as he might do a Cunningham on him — he seems afraid of being shown up. A smaller man with better skills he can't put away easily... That's encroaching on his best-boxer turf.

Price needed the fear factor he once held over Fury to stand a chance, and so its removal could be considered lucky. Had Fury fought him after Thompson he'd have stopped him in the first half. Joshua's physicality was and maybe still is a threat, but seeing two smaller men outbox him will have given Fury a huge confidence boost. Insofar as that favours him more than previously, it is fortunate.

If Joyce beats Parker, I don't think he'll be fancied, either. When that's a fantastically interesting matchup. Wlad knew he'd let himself down and Fury didn't take the rematch, leaving us the more determined version against AJ. At the end of his career, naturally. Wlad's second loss in a row stamped his end, when had he refused to fight anyone but Fury and waited, Fury would've had that question hanging over him. AJ did him a favour.

Wilder remains the opponent Fury derives the bulk of his credit for facing, but was someone who got outboxed on the regular until he landed his straight right. Against Fury he couldn't land his best shot, and that's Fury's finest hour in a lacklustre run (following Seferi and Pianeta). Their first fight is the only time I've felt Fury worthy of high praise; that was a champion's move. He totally backed himself like an all-timer's supposed to.

And talking of Ali, it really hit me yesterday (when mentioning names) how little heavyweight action we see now. Makhmudov looks dangerous for anyone, and why not throw Sanchez in with Anderson as a crossroads fight? Usyk-AJ and Joyce-Parker are the only decent announced fights, no? Yoka and Hrgovic should fight; Dubois needs to get back on the horse; Miller too, I guess; and where's Ruiz? Ain't no pie-eating contest.

I suspect Fury will retire undefeated, with a new heavyweight plenty of us would've fancied to beat him coming along in the next decade. But his fans won't have that, any more than my belief that Vitali would've broken him down and Lewis knocked him out (if all in their primes). He came along at a great time, and even benefitted from Whyte training at Danny Williams' Kipling camp. Beastmode, my arse!

But he's certainly incredibly hard to beat, and to give him credit for last night, his punch technique was noticeably sharper (I think that's actually the best I've seen him). It was Whyte throwing overhand tennis balls at him. If he's good enough to beat Usyk and AJ and Joyce, let's see it! Then he'll go down in everyone's book as the best of his generation, officially.

I don't dislike him as a person (and Paris, Shane and Hughie seem all right), but John and SugarHill are two of the biggest bellends in boxing right now, and I can't say I wouldn't like seeing them humbled. Or even just Tyson having a word to remind them he's the star, but he'll have nothing bad to say about this big-dog shite unless it comes back to bite him.

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:27

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Really? Wow!

Who do you have beating him?

I have always thought:-

Lennox
Bowe
Foreman
Ali
Holmes

If he beats the lads I mentioned though I think it's very difficult to make a case he's not the best. He's adaptable, massive, fast, fit, switched on, game, can recover from a punch, and powerful. Last night was no revelation, it was a walk in the park as predicted, I've posted the above before more or less.

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:40

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:27

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Really? Wow!

Who do you have beating him?

I have always thought:-

Lennox
Bowe
Foreman
Ali
Holmes

If he beats the lads I mentioned though I think it's very difficult to make a case he's not the best. He's adaptable, massive, fast, fit, switched on, game, can recover from a punch, and powerful. Last night was no revelation, it was a walk in the park as predicted, I've posted the above before more or less.

Trouble is, all of the above fighters would have looked a lot better against Fury’s opponents than Fury himself has. They’re just better than Fury, that’s all there is to it.

oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:45

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Because it show someone can use a neutral and balanced opinion even when they don’t have to.
He could be biased and widen the gap between his grandad and Fury but he choose to talk sense.
Therefore holds more water than some of the spastics on here.


Reading some opinions you’d think Bruno would ice Fury within a minute.

oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:45

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Because,as we have been reminded several times on here that we don't know boxing if we criticise someones record

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 09:13

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 08:47
I've been a huge boxing fan since the early 1980s. Every single HW era has been called crap during that time.

I agree - although would add that every era has got worse since then .. we are at rock bottom right now when a guy with a physique like a 50 year old alcoholic can be the top man of his division.

I have magazines from the 1970s saying the same thing about Ali and how poor the division must be.

Larry Holmes had a spare tyre for almost a decade. Some eras are a bit better, some are a bit worse.

Yes, Tyson is lucky he didn't come across a killer like Berbick for his title.... or any of the 80's crack heads.

Fury is a top talent in any era. He's a nightmare opponent for anyone.

Fury against Usyk is a fascinating match up, it has to happen

bigjack wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:50

oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:45

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Because,as we have been reminded several times on here that we don't know boxing if we criticise someones record

BINGO! You saved me saying "cherry picking opinions of others doesn't make it a fact!"

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:50

oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:45

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Because it show someone can use a neutral and balanced opinion even when they don’t have to.
He could be biased and widen the gap between his grandad and Fury but he choose to talk sense.
Therefore holds more water than some of the spastics on here.


Reading some opinions you’d think Bruno would ice Fury within a minute.

Or basically, Walsh's opinion suits you.

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:50


Reading some opinions you’d think Bruno would ice Fury within a minute.

Bruno-Fury would look a lot like last night.

The McDermott fight I said he lost (clearly) and that Jack Reiss was well within his rights to stop that fight at 3/4 count.
BUT unlike a few on here I ALSO look at Fury’s positives in his career and that he’s beaten a lot of good fighters in pretty much every style possible.
Boxer, box-fighter, brawler, inside fighter, southpaw, puncher, fought on pure heart… ect… am I missing anything?

He’s an absolute monster.

One of the best of all time. No doubt.

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Edit. I see you've already explained this terrible statement with similarly terrible reasoning.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:12

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

God knows.

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:51

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 09:13

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 08:47
I've been a huge boxing fan since the early 1980s. Every single HW era has been called crap during that time.

I agree - although would add that every era has got worse since then .. we are at rock bottom right now when a guy with a physique like a 50 year old alcoholic can be the top man of his division.

I have magazines from the 1970s saying the same thing about Ali and how poor the division must be.

Larry Holmes had a spare tyre for almost a decade. Some eras are a bit better, some are a bit worse.

I agree that the demise of boxing has been called for many years; I remember reading an article from the 50`s saying that boxing on TV was the final nail in the coffin .. and here we are today with shabby PPVs like last nights offering.

Loads has been written why heavyweight boxing has suffered more than the lighter weights. One reason that often gets identified is that there are so many other sports for big fellas to go into, and earn more money .. and more regular money.

There is no disputing the lack of depth in heavyweight boxing today. Slow-Joe-Joyce who`s best win is probably over the also unproven DD is identified as being worthy enough, that if beaten, would place a person as the GOAT ...

Holmes spare tyre is nothing compared to Furys flabby lose belly and back.

Here is a comment I recently read:

"We are living in the dark ages, the age of absurdity, evidenced by a heavyweight fighter who looks like a a bald-headed giraffe with the body of an alcoholic, claiming he’s the “greatest of all time”, after knocking out an over-the-hill fighter, who no more belongs in the ring than a Michael Jackson impersonator. From a historical standpoint, Fury is absolutely pathetic, not just as an athlete, but as a fighter. His place as a champion made possible only because the opposition during this era is historically pathetic and mediocre, and because he has perfected the practice of fighting as seldom as possible, using hype to make as much money as possible.

He says he will retire, but no doubt this is done to feed the hype. He doesn’t want to step into the ring any more this year or next, and doesn’t want to feel the pressure of people pressing him to fight. So he feigns retirement, takes a break, until a big money fight emerges. Sad character, sad state of affairs, but this is the pathetic era of heavyweight boxing he represents."

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:12

Dioufy wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:29 The grandson of the “best ever” who is also a professional fighter tweets that Fury being one of the best ever holds more water than any of our opinions tbh.

Why?

Because nobody on here has any experience as a fighter,manager,trainer so can't possibly know as much as Ali's grandson,who wouldn't have seen him fight anyway ?

It's absolutely pointless to compare eras.

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:14

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:51

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 09:13

I agree - although would add that every era has got worse since then .. we are at rock bottom right now when a guy with a physique like a 50 year old alcoholic can be the top man of his division.

I have magazines from the 1970s saying the same thing about Ali and how poor the division must be.

Larry Holmes had a spare tyre for almost a decade. Some eras are a bit better, some are a bit worse.

I agree that the demise of boxing has been called for many years; I remember reading an article from the 50`s saying that boxing on TV was the final nail in the coffin .. and here we are today with shabby PPVs like last nights offering.

Loads has been written why heavyweight boxing has suffered more than the lighter weights. One reason that often gets identified is that there are so many other sports for big fellas to go into, and earn more money .. and more regular money.

There is no disputing the lack of depth in heavyweight boxing today. Slow-Joe-Joyce who`s best win is probably over the also unproven DD is identified as being worthy enough, that if beaten, would place a person as the GOAT ...

Holmes spare tyre is nothing compared to Furys flabby lose belly and back.

Here is a comment I recently read:

"We are living in the dark ages, the age of absurdity, evidenced by a heavyweight fighter who looks like a a bald-headed giraffe with the body of an alcoholic, claiming he’s the “greatest of all time”, after knocking out an over-the-hill fighter, who no more belongs in the ring than a Michael Jackson impersonator. From a historical standpoint, Fury is absolutely pathetic, not just as an athlete, but as a fighter. His place as a champion made possible only because the opposition during this era is historically pathetic and mediocre, and because he has perfected the practice of fighting as seldom as possible, using hype to make as much money as possible.

He says he will retire, but no doubt this is done to feed the hype. He doesn’t want to step into the ring any more this year or next, and doesn’t want to feel the pressure of people pressing him to fight. So he feigns retirement, takes a break, until a big money fight emerges. Sad character, sad state of affairs, but this is the pathetic era of heavyweight boxing he represents."

It's all been said before so no need to go over it all again. I just don;t really agree that it's got worse. I was mightily entertained by the quote. But isn't the second paragraph just as applicable to Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

Joe Joyce by sheer fitness, chin and work-rate would beat many of the top contenders of the 1980s.

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:51
I have magazines from the 1970s saying the same thing about Ali and how poor the division must be.

The Ali documentary on BBC2 at the moment mentions the bad press Ali got when he returned to boxing in 1970, that he wasn't the fighter he used to be.

We all know he DID lose Small "Big" John, but it doesn't f**king matter any more.

Mayweather lost to Castillo.

Mayweather = shite.

Ezzard wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:42

It's all been said before so no need to go over it all again. I just don;t really agree that it's got worse. I was mightily entertained by the quote. But isn't the second paragraph just as applicable to Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

Joe Joyce by sheer fitness, chin and work-rate would beat many of the top contenders of the 1980s.
[/quote]

Absolutely - saying your gonna retire is an oft used line nowadays - especially because top boxers rarely fight more than 1-2 a year.

Joe Joyce has not proved very much as yet. His breakout fight being against another unproven fighter. Whilst I'd like to think he will fulfil what some predicting .. as yet he hasn't had the opportunity. Maybe if the fight against Parker gets confirmed we will know more.

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.