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Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 09 Jun 2022, 20:56
by BoxBuzz
It's possible he could be the "best" skilled HW if he were competing.
However, I just don't know how that honestly gets the job done against the likes of Wilder or Fury....and maybe some others.
Wilder could take him out...if Joe can't steer clear, and Fury is nearly as good, and he's a much bigger truck.
So, not sure he grabs a title.
However......if he is thoughtful, he could smash into the Cruiser or LHW division and happily dominate. He could easily stop Canelo's ongoing attempt to keep moving up. He originally weighed 181 when he put a whuppin' on Jack the Kracken.
So, he'd have to consider his options...and ponder a downsized career.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 03:44
by Ezzard
No need for us to criticise Joe Louis. He was a true great. HWs get dropped, so what? He got up and won.
But if he were around now he would be a Cruiser or even a LHW. He would dominate the divisions and essentially move up to HW to cash out knowing he could not last 10 years at the top as a HW. 3-4 fights and retiurement.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 08:05
by pound per pound
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Jun 2022, 15:55
Never said he had a great chin. Don't think anyone did. By heavyweight champion (not just titleholder) standards, he he had a better chin that some and worse than others.
Look at what you can say about other guys:
Fine. And Lennox Lewis got stopped by McCall and Rahman. Neither known to be a big puncher. Hurt by Mercer and Briggs.
Larry Holmes got decked and badly hurt by Renaldo Snipes.
Foreman got knocked down by Jimmy Young.
Fury has been decked three times in his last three fights. Got knocked by Steve Cunningham.
Joshua actually got stopped by frikkin Andy Ruiz.
Wilder stopped by Fury. Never fought anyone else worth mentioning.
Do we really have to go into glass jaw Wladimir Klitschko?
As for Schmeling and Marciano, the only times that he was stopped in a very long career.- Well we discussed Schmeling already. Marciano seriously? Are we going to pretend that Louis was remotely close to his prime by then?
He was knocked down three times in his prime and each time got up to win easily.
He didn't get decked by many guys who could punch: Simon, Carnera, Max Baer etc. Well past his best, he lasted 15 rounds against Charles.
Going into his last fight, Louis had been stopped a grand total one time in 70 fights over 17 years. Obviously he didn't have Ali's chin. However, obviously he had to have had a good chin.
He didn't have close to a great chin, it rather suspect just like Wlad's who fought more skilled big men...all of the time and didn't use the color line to avoid anyone. That right, just two of Louis defenses came vs African Americans. The washed up Henry Lewis who could not see well and Joe Walcott, who likely beat Louis the first time. No-- Louis wasn'tt gone. He in the USA army by boxing at like Walcott was 34. Charels? He kicked the crap out out of Louis though by that time Louis was too worn out.
The guys you listed were punchers... Rhaman. McCall, Briggs, Snpies, Wilder...and hit significantly harder than Braddock. Wallcot, Farr et all and were way more skilled. Gotta run, more later.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 08:13
by Seamus
If Louis or Marciano or Dempsey were around today, in all likelyhood they'd have to fight at Cruiserweight, the division that nostalgists loath the most because it came about because the days of Light Heavyweights adding 10 lbs and competing at Heavyweight were coming to an end.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 08:43
by Ezzard
Seamus wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:13
If Louis or Marciano or Dempsey were around today, in all likelyhood they'd have to fight at Cruiserweight, the division that nostalgists loath the most because it came about because the days of Light Heavyweights adding 10 lbs and competing at Heavyweight were coming to an end.
I completely agree. With modern day weight cutting methods Rocky might even make 175.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 10:54
by tiny_acres
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:43
Seamus wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:13
If Louis or Marciano or Dempsey were around today, in all likelyhood they'd have to fight at Cruiserweight, the division that nostalgists loath the most because it came about because the days of Light Heavyweights adding 10 lbs and competing at Heavyweight were coming to an end.
I completely agree. With modern day weight cutting methods Rocky might even make 175.
I have been saying with weigh ins 24 hours in advance and modern diet, Marciano could cut to 168. He fought at the same weight as most super middleweights weigh on fight night.
My dream match would of been Marciano vs Canelo
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 11:02
by Ezzard
tiny_acres wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 10:54
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:43
Seamus wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:13
If Louis or Marciano or Dempsey were around today, in all likelyhood they'd have to fight at Cruiserweight, the division that nostalgists loath the most because it came about because the days of Light Heavyweights adding 10 lbs and competing at Heavyweight were coming to an end.
I completely agree. With modern day weight cutting methods Rocky might even make 175.
I have been saying with weigh ins 24 hours in advance and modern diet, Marciano could cut to 168. He fought at the same weight as most super middleweights weigh on fight night.
My dream match would of been Marciano vs Canelo
Wow. I didn't know that.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 12:56
by Seamus
Marciano vs Canelo, now that's a matchup,. Makes more sense than Rocky stopping Lennox Lewis and Vitaly early.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 15:26
by Controversial
As others have said he would be more suited to the CW division.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 15:49
by Ambling Alp II
Seamus wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 12:56
Marciano vs Canelo, now that's a matchup,. Makes more sense than Rocky stopping Lennox Lewis and Vitaly early.
Not sure said Marciano would stop them early. Yeah I'm sure Canelo would just walk right trough Marciano's punches.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 15:51
by Ambling Alp II
Seamus wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 08:13
If Louis or Marciano or Dempsey were around today, in all likelyhood they'd have to fight at Cruiserweight, the division that nostalgists loath the most because it came about because the days of Light Heavyweights adding 10 lbs and competing at Heavyweight were coming to an end.
Louis and Dempsey destroyed guys that weighed 240 plus. But yeah they wouldn't want any p[art of these incredible talents that are fighting at heavyweight today.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 16:00
by Ambling Alp II
Seamus wrote: ↑09 Jun 2022, 19:04
And every one of those guys you mentioned scoring knockdowns was well over 200 lbs ! And that's the point. And those flurries frikkin Andy Ruiz hit Joshua with in the 3rd and 6th rds were pretty frikkin fast and accurate.
Well just about everyone that they fought weighed well over 200 pounds! That's the frikkin point.
One 250 pound guys beating other 250 pound guys doesn't mean that he would beat Joe Louis.
All it proves is that one really big guy beat another really big guy. So what.
You what does mean something? Real like when a talented smaller guy fights a really big guy.
Like Joe beating Simon, Baer and Carnera. It frikkin happened. Deal with it.
Holmes lost to Michael Spinks who was under the cruiserweight limit at fight night.
Ever watch Lennox Lewis fight Zelikjko Mavrovic? Total no name who weighed 214. Struggled with him. (I wasn't saying Lewis sucked earlier. He was great. Just pointing out that you nitpick anyone like people were Louis.)
Oh yes Andy Ruiz is a major frikkin talent. Lets stop pretending that Any Ruiz is good. That is incredibly embarrassing loss for Joshua.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 16:07
by Seamus
Andy Ruiz, James Toney, Tony Tubbs, Tim Witherspoon, Kirk Johnson are all guys with good boxing skills, but who were often, mainly due to poor diet, not in the best shape.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 10 Jun 2022, 18:28
by margaret thatcher
joe would be more suited to cruiser size wise, but guys like dempsey and johnson and marciano.....well many light heavies today are over 6 feet and around 190 on fight night, no doubt they couldve made 175 with modern cutting
and what about the 5'7 156 pound heavyweight sam langford (who has the height advantage over vitali klitschko) who fought the 'giant' jack johnson
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 11 Jun 2022, 17:12
by pound per pound
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2022, 18:28
joe would be more suited to cruiser size wise, but guys like dempsey and johnson and marciano.....well many light heavies today are over 6 feet and around 190 on fight night, no doubt they couldve made 175 with modern cutting
and what about the 5'7 156 pound heavyweight sam langford (who has the height advantage over vitali klitschko) who fought the 'giant' jack johnson
Maricano cut weight by training down . There was very little fat on him. Today, he'd be 200-210 lbs, Regardless the 6' foot 190-210 pound heavyweight being the best around is a thing of the past. Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano and Joe Fraizer would be up against the long reach, tower height and the modern day
athletic big men.
It's a different division.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 11 Jun 2022, 17:57
by margaret thatcher
these lhws who are around 190 in the ring these days cut weight as much as they can too, pretty much any fighter outisde heavyweight does. have you seen how ripped they get? rock never got his body fat that low. if these guys are around 190 that ripped, and he was in the 180s being that soft (relatively speaking) he was probably naturally smaller than many lhws today tbh
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 11 Jun 2022, 20:13
by bwu
There are plenty of modern guys who would give Louis a tough time. I don't think he would reign for a decade and have 25 successful defenses in this era. But yes, if the Joe Louis who beat Max Schmeling was around today, he'd be the best in the world.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 18 Jun 2022, 04:08
by gp.
Of course he wouldn't; this is ridiculous. The man would be 108 years old.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 18 Jun 2022, 06:06
by bwu
gp. wrote: ↑18 Jun 2022, 04:08
Of course he wouldn't; this is ridiculous. The man would be 108 years old.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 18 Jun 2022, 06:21
by Wee Tommy
gp. wrote: ↑18 Jun 2022, 04:08
Of course he wouldn't; this is ridiculous. The man would be 108 years old.
I’d still bet him against the bottom of the top 10
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 18 Jul 2022, 13:49
by Cap
This discussion sunk to new lows when people started comparing Joe Louis, one of the best heavyweights of all time, to sloppy blubberweights like Tyson Fury and Andy Ruiz. I guess frequent use of recreational pharmaceuticals will do that to your brain. The heavyweight division is a joke these days and young fans don't want to admit it.
'nuff said.
Re: Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?
Posted: 19 Jul 2022, 07:12
by Riddick Bowie
BoxBuzz wrote: ↑09 Jun 2022, 20:56
It's possible he could be the "best" skilled HW if he were competing.
However, I just don't know how that honestly gets the job done against the likes of Wilder or Fury....and maybe some others.
Wilder could take him out...if Joe can't steer clear, and Fury is nearly as good, and he's a much bigger truck.
So, not sure he grabs a title.
Looking at their respective footwork and all-round technique, it would be Wilder who would be in trouble against Louis, quickly.
