BoxRec

stevec@france wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022, 07:33 wilder hasnt won a fight in almost 3 years which was against the grandad ortiz .
shamefull attempt by the promoters to make a load of $$$$ and tout him as the next big thing - again !
His record is pathetic given how long he held a belt and avoided real fights in favour of easy tomato cans and is only trying to make a comeback because fury says he is retired .

Everyone acts like Wilder has been retired and has not fought in years.
He has fought 9 months ago. Joshua fought 10 months ago. Neither are unheard of in this day and time.

Wilder is going to win in 3 rounds tops. People are putting way too much stock in his decline based on his last showings but the fact remains that Helenius is no match for him at all at this or any stage

unless Helenius shows tons more chin and heart than usual Wilder knocks him out in 2 or 3

I don't know. Helenius may be practicing with Wilder's face painted on a soccer ball.

Bandog wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 08:35 I don't know. Helenius may be practicing with Wilder's face painted on a soccer ball.

Ha!
Thanks mate, really enjoyed that.
Helenius sounds like the baddie from Highlander

KiwiRider wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 16:32

Bandog wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 08:35 I don't know. Helenius may be practicing with Wilder's face painted on a soccer ball.

Ha!
Thanks mate, really enjoyed that.
Helenius sounds like the baddie from Highlander

He had some throat problems at the time. He doesn't normally sound like that

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 04:05

KiwiRider wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 16:32

Bandog wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 08:35 I don't know. Helenius may be practicing with Wilder's face painted on a soccer ball.

Ha!
Thanks mate, really enjoyed that.
Helenius sounds like the baddie from Highlander

He had some throat problems at the time. He doesn't normally sound like that

He should sound the same badass during the Wilder fight buildup, it'll be fun.

Curious enough about this fight. If Wilder hasn't psycological or physical aftermath from the Fury bout, it will be a quite easy KO for him.

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 04:05

KiwiRider wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 16:32

Bandog wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 08:35 I don't know. Helenius may be practicing with Wilder's face painted on a soccer ball.

Ha!
Thanks mate, really enjoyed that.
Helenius sounds like the baddie from Highlander

He had some throat problems at the time. He doesn't normally sound like that

Awww!
I thought it was great. Especially his laugh.

If Helenius tries to box methodically, Wilder will most likely lose a bunch of rounds, but still will KO Helenius at some point, because despite having an advantage in boxing skills and technique Robert remains hittable, while his chin and guts have never been special.

Wilder is significantly more durable, but he can be hurt and he falls apart under pressure. The worst way to box against Wilder is to allow him to remain at his distance, to let him settle the target for his right hand.

Helenius needs to pressure Wilder hard from the opening bell. Robert doesn't have the rough style to maul Wilder like Fury did, but Helenius can press Deontay with jabs and one-twos. He should gain confedence for it like in his bouts against Kownacki and leave the too cautious style behind. After all, it's a do-or-die fight for both.

Timid Helenius can be stopped quickly. Confident Helenius can pull out a win. Hopefully, the fight happens and Rob KOs Wilder.

I think there is good chance for Helenius to spark Wilder out. He has some real punching power and Wilder does not have the greatest chin. Ortiz pretty much had him out and needing all the help to get trough the first fight.

Helenius is the more skilled boxer off the two but Wilder has way more natural advantages in speed and power. If Helenius can catch him early he can win. Hes pretty good finisher when he gets the opponent hurt.

If the fight goes long I think Wilder will spark him out eventually. He tends to have those hands low and gets sloppy with the defense as the fight goes on. almost no chance that it goes to score cards.

One last thing. Helenius has really mean body shots in hes arsenal. I don't know if Wilder has been really tested to the body before. He just might be too skinny to take what Helenius can deliver down low.

I see this as 67/33 type of affair for Wilder. Helenius will come to win and has real punchers chance to stop bumsquad

Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

punchoutsb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 19:41 Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

As an objective fan who thinks Wilder is a pudendum but respects him, his top opponents are:

Fury x3
Ortiz x2
Stiverne x2

Then a massive drop off. Didn't Gerald Washington, one of Wilder's more uninspiring opponents, stop Helenius? If that's the case then you've got to rank him below Washington and around the level of Breazeale, Spiltka, Scott and Arreola. I guess better than Scott but worse than Arreola.

To be honest with you, Scott was half decent but never applied himself. I'll never understand that guy's mindset.

Cyclops wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:18

punchoutsb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 19:41 Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

As an objective fan who thinks Wilder is a pudendum but respects him, his top opponents are:

Fury x3
Ortiz x2
Stiverne x2

Then a massive drop off. Didn't Gerald Washington, one of Wilder's more uninspiring opponents, stop Helenius? If that's the case then you've got to rank him below Washington and around the level of Breazeale, Spiltka, Scott and Arreola. I guess better than Scott but worse than Arreola.

To be honest with you, Scott was half decent but never applied himself. I'll never understand that guy's mindset.

I'd agree on the top three, really no question there.

Wilder victims Washington and Duhaupas both beat Helenius, but oddly enough I'd still rate Robert over both. He has a better overall resume then either which should be taken into account. Boxing math is tough, since someone like Washington beats Helenius and gets annihilated by Kownacki, who goes on to get brutalized by Helenius...

If Helenius isn't top five, he's not missing it by much.

Cyclops wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:18

punchoutsb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 19:41 Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

As an objective fan who thinks Wilder is a pudendum but respects him, his top opponents are:

Fury x3
Ortiz x2
Stiverne x2

Then a massive drop off. Didn't Gerald Washington, one of Wilder's more uninspiring opponents, stop Helenius? If that's the case then you've got to rank him below Washington and around the level of Breazeale, Spiltka, Scott and Arreola. I guess better than Scott but worse than Arreola.

To be honest with you, Scott was half decent but never applied himself. I'll never understand that guy's mindset.

how do you rank kownacki - washington - helenius then.....since helly lost to wash, but twice battered kownacki, who in turned destroyed wash

man wilder's wins are so thin looking over his resume. 10+ title defenses, almost 45 wins, yet bermane stiverne is a top 2 guy he's beaten

Cyclops wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:18

punchoutsb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 19:41 Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

As an objective fan who thinks Wilder is a pudendum but respects him, his top opponents are:

Fury x3
Ortiz x2
Stiverne x2

Then a massive drop off. Didn't Gerald Washington, one of Wilder's more uninspiring opponents, stop Helenius? If that's the case then you've got to rank him below Washington and around the level of Breazeale, Spiltka, Scott and Arreola. I guess better than Scott but worse than Arreola.

To be honest with you, Scott was half decent but never applied himself. I'll never understand that guy's mindset.

You can only rate an opponent at the time wilder fought them. So it’s Stivern x 1. The second time wilder fought stivern he was retired and inactive and out of shape, and probably as bad or worse than duapas, breazeal, spilka and a few others.

helenius was coolest when he had that movie bad guy voice

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:55 helenius was coolest when he had that movie bad guy voice

Got punched in the throat sparring if I recall correctly. If he could have kept that voice he'd be undefeated due to pure intimidation

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:38

Cyclops wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 20:18

punchoutsb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 19:41 Wilder should be a huge favorite, but even at this well worn stage, Helenius is as live a dog as any. His career was derailed by injuries and bad luck. His chin has never been the best though, and that’s kind of a big deal against Wilder. Is past it best Helenius in the top five of opponents Wilder has faced?

As an objective fan who thinks Wilder is a pudendum but respects him, his top opponents are:

Fury x3
Ortiz x2
Stiverne x2

Then a massive drop off. Didn't Gerald Washington, one of Wilder's more uninspiring opponents, stop Helenius? If that's the case then you've got to rank him below Washington and around the level of Breazeale, Spiltka, Scott and Arreola. I guess better than Scott but worse than Arreola.

To be honest with you, Scott was half decent but never applied himself. I'll never understand that guy's mindset.

how do you rank kownacki - washington - helenius then.....since helly lost to wash, but twice battered kownacki, who in turned destroyed wash

man wilder's wins are so thin looking over his resume. 10+ title defenses, almost 45 wins, yet bermane stiverne is a top 2 guy he's beaten

I don't, really. Kownacki had a good run before Helenius beat him the first time, didn't he? Washington: crap. When he fought Charles Martin, I remember thinking they both looked terrified, like the ring was the last place they wanted to be. Martin has never looked like a guy who really wanted to box whenever I've seen him. Kownacki-Helenius 2 is the freshest in my mind, and again Kownacki looked like he really didn't want to be there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he take a hiding but actually got thrown out of there for fouling?

I don't hate peak career Stiverne. He was a solid, if unspectacular, fighter at the time Wilder beat him at first. He had a KO over Arreola right? Not bad. Arreola was a decent top 10 guy at one point, and has given some good people a fight into his antiquity.

My thoughts on Helenius aren't any secret: big, very ordinary guy. I don't mind him being Wilder's comeback, but unless Wilder is totally damaged goods he should bang him out sometime around half way, after looking a bit rusty and lost.

I'd say, Helenuis gotta be the 3rd best opponent for Wilder, after Fury and Ortiz. Yeah, he lost to Duhaupas and Washington, but he did more than those and than Stiverne with Breazeale. Actually, the Washington loss really looked like the 'bad night' type of a defeat.

people thinking helenius is a pushover, has no power, can't box, will be short work for wilder, simply got no clue. period.

Helenius is so frustrating. You'd imagine he'd have everything to be an elite fighter, but he loses to such terrible opponents. How do you lose to Washington!?

Dude is huge, hits hard, and is a solid boxer. If it wasn't for his weak constitution, I'd say he should be a favorite. He'd outbox Wilder (who can't honestly), and he can stop anyone in the division.

Still, Wilder is a huge favorite for a reason.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 01:08 Helenius is so frustrating. You'd imagine he'd have everything to be an elite fighter, but he loses to such terrible opponents. How do you lose to Washington!?

Dude is huge, hits hard, and is a solid boxer. If it wasn't for his weak constitution, I'd say he should be a favorite. He'd outbox Wilder (who can't honestly), and he can stop anyone in the division.

Still, Wilder is a huge favorite for a reason.

I know that injury got him when he was fighting Whyte, which was a shame because he had the pop to stun him.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 01:08 Helenius is so frustrating. You'd imagine he'd have everything to be an elite fighter, but he loses to such terrible opponents. How do you lose to Washington!?

Dude is huge, hits hard, and is a solid boxer. If it wasn't for his weak constitution, I'd say he should be a favorite. He'd outbox Wilder (who can't honestly), and he can stop anyone in the division.

Still, Wilder is a huge favorite for a reason.

Slow, poor headmovment, very basic footwork, limmited punch selection, medium power.

HE has basicaly nothing of an elite fighter, other than being fornicating big.

gregregegg wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 04:59

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 01:08 Helenius is so frustrating. You'd imagine he'd have everything to be an elite fighter, but he loses to such terrible opponents. How do you lose to Washington!?

Dude is huge, hits hard, and is a solid boxer. If it wasn't for his weak constitution, I'd say he should be a favorite. He'd outbox Wilder (who can't honestly), and he can stop anyone in the division.

Still, Wilder is a huge favorite for a reason.

Slow, poor headmovment, very basic footwork, limmited punch selection, medium power.

HE has basicaly nothing of an elite fighter, other than being fornicating big.

Well, his powah is quite big. Also, his main tools, like jab or 1-2, aren't that slow or at least he times those well enough.