BoxRec

orbtastic wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022, 05:09 Bennie - who would you pick as the best British title holder who didn’t win world title honours?

I had Andries in my head going through the belts but for some bizarre reason forgot he was 3 time wbc champ (including that incredible trilogy with Harding) How the memory works baffles me at times.

I steered clear of heavyweights for that reason, fights get mired in other titles.

I mean Cooper is a standout, 3 time Lonsdale and held the empire and European title. Dominant domestically.

Billy wells is another who had something like 15 British title fights but got chinned a lot too. I mean it’s no shame losing to someone as good as carpentier but all his losses are via KO.

orbtastic wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022, 14:54 Interesting, thanks Bennie (as always). I know of him, his peak was slightly before my time but he was still rolling back the years in the late 80s. I see he was stopped in his last fight by Calamati who Pat Barratt practically decapitated a year later.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 06:45 I'd never seen McKenzie before, real good technical boxer, wow.

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 07:42

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 06:45 I'd never seen McKenzie before, real good technical boxer, wow.

Watch his Olympic fight against Ray Leonard, compare that to the standard we see nowadays in amateur fights

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 07:42

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 06:45 I'd never seen McKenzie before, real good technical boxer, wow.

Watch his Olympic fight against Ray Leonard, compare that to the standard we see nowadays in amateur fights

bennie wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 10:44

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 07:42

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 06:45 I'd never seen McKenzie before, real good technical boxer, wow.

Watch his Olympic fight against Ray Leonard, compare that to the standard we see nowadays in amateur fights

Clinton was great if a fighter came too him but he struggled against the slippery types like Colin Powers and Terry Marsh. The only men who ever really chinned him in his long career were Powers and Leicester's Tony McKenzie but Clinton was able to come back both times.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

bennie wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 10:44

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 07:42

Watch his Olympic fight against Ray Leonard, compare that to the standard we see nowadays in amateur fights

Clinton was great if a fighter came too him but he struggled against the slippery types like Colin Powers and Terry Marsh. The only men who ever really chinned him in his long career were Powers and Leicester's Tony McKenzie but Clinton was able to come back both times.

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Coco wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 14:47

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

bennie wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 10:44

Clinton was great if a fighter came too him but he struggled against the slippery types like Colin Powers and Terry Marsh. The only men who ever really chinned him in his long career were Powers and Leicester's Tony McKenzie but Clinton was able to come back both times.

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Define underrated? He was British champ, for me that was his level.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 15:44

Coco wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 14:47

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Define underrated? He was British champ, for me that was his level.

He had 3 Lonsdale wins and was winning against Pat Barrett til he got caught. He won a bronze medal and was a good amateur. We’re taking about guys that won only a Brit title and I think he should be considered

mickey1975 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2022, 16:26 Carl J had a good run at Super Feather.

Muttley wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 16:58

mickey1975 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2022, 16:26 Carl J had a good run at Super Feather.

I agree,Carl was very underrated

Coco wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 14:47

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

bennie wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 10:44

Clinton was great if a fighter came too him but he struggled against the slippery types like Colin Powers and Terry Marsh. The only men who ever really chinned him in his long career were Powers and Leicester's Tony McKenzie but Clinton was able to come back both times.

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Define underrated? He was British champ, for me that was his level.

bennie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 05:51

Coco wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 14:47

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Define underrated? He was British champ, for me that was his level.

Willis looked a great prospect after winning bronze at the 1980 Moscow Olympics. He was the only member of the GB team to win a medal and that team included the Gilbody brothers, Keith Wallace, Mark Kaylor, Andy Straughn and Pete Hanlon. Featherweight Hanlon did beat Antonio Esparragoza of Venezuela; Ray Gilbody lost to Mexico's Daniel Zaragoza at bantamweight; light-welterweight Willis was outscored by Italy's Patrizio Oliva, who won the gold medal and the Val Barker Trophy as the best boxer in the Games. Southpaw Willis stuck around in the amateurs to win a second ABA title in 1981 and then turned pro with Reading manager Bev Walker, cruising to 13 straight wins before disaster struck when Hartlepool's George Feeney, defending his British lightweight title, wiped him out in the first round. Feeney looked like Mike Tyson.
Inevitably, Willis struggled for confidence in the aftermath and was nearly knocked out again by Londoner Winston Spencer but showed character to come back and win in the sixth round. He flirted with the light-welterweight division until Feeney was forced out of boxing with eye trouble and Willis picked up the vacant British lightweight title with a hard-earned decision over Scot Ian McLeod. He retained twice to win a Lonsdale Belt outright, one of them an impressive stoppage of Glasgow's Steve Boyle, but was eventually relieved of the title by yet another Scot, Alex Dickson, who proved too quick and sharp for the one-paced Willis. The Liverpool man moved up to light-welter and secured another British title shot but Pat Barrett found his chin with a brilliant left hook in the ninth round of their contest, which proved to be Tony's last.
Ultimately, Willis disappointed after his amateur exploits and such an impressive start to his pro career. He boxed smoothly and really looked the part at times but lacked a second gear and was always bitter and twisted about turning pro. He worked as a scaffolder for George Wimpey, the same George Wimpey that sponsored the England amateur set-up, but was laid off by them, which is absurd.

bennie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 05:51

Coco wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 14:47

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022, 11:36

What do you think of Tony Willis? Seems underrrated to me

Define underrated? He was British champ, for me that was his level.

Willis looked a great prospect after winning bronze at the 1980 Moscow Olympics. He was the only member of the GB team to win a medal and that team included the Gilbody brothers, Keith Wallace, Mark Kaylor, Andy Straughn and Pete Hanlon. Featherweight Hanlon did beat Antonio Esparragoza of Venezuela; Ray Gilbody lost to Mexico's Daniel Zaragoza at bantamweight; light-welterweight Willis was outscored by Italy's Patrizio Oliva, who won the gold medal and the Val Barker Trophy as the best boxer in the Games. Southpaw Willis stuck around in the amateurs to win a second ABA title in 1981 and then turned pro with Reading manager Bev Walker, cruising to 13 straight wins before disaster struck when Hartlepool's George Feeney, defending his British lightweight title, wiped him out in the first round. Feeney looked like Mike Tyson.
Inevitably, Willis struggled for confidence in the aftermath and was nearly knocked out again by Londoner Winston Spencer but showed character to come back and win in the sixth round. He flirted with the light-welterweight division until Feeney was forced out of boxing with eye trouble and Willis picked up the vacant British lightweight title with a hard-earned decision over Scot Ian McLeod. He retained twice to win a Lonsdale Belt outright, one of them an impressive stoppage of Glasgow's Steve Boyle, but was eventually relieved of the title by yet another Scot, Alex Dickson, who proved too quick and sharp for the one-paced Willis. The Liverpool man moved up to light-welter and secured another British title shot but Pat Barrett found his chin with a brilliant left hook in the ninth round of their contest, which proved to be Tony's last.
Ultimately, Willis disappointed after his amateur exploits and such an impressive start to his pro career. He boxed smoothly and really looked the part at times but lacked a second gear and was always bitter and twisted about turning pro. He worked as a scaffolder for George Wimpey, the same George Wimpey that sponsored the England amateur set-up, but was laid off by them, which is absurd.

Coco wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 07:34 Do you know more about Alex Dickson, good amateur, looked great in beating Wills, fell apart against Steve Boyle in his first defence, and never managed to push on again

bennie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 09:21

Coco wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 07:34 Do you know more about Alex Dickson, good amateur, looked great in beating Wills, fell apart against Steve Boyle in his first defence, and never managed to push on again

Yes, Alex was an outstanding amateur. I saw Jim McDonnell outscore him in a thrilling ABA semi-final in 1982 and a year later, Kenny Willis outscored him in another thrilling ABA semi-final. Kenny is the older of Tony. In 1984, Dickson came good when he outboxed and outpointed Carl Crook to win the ABA lightweight title and a place on the Olympic team in Los Angeles, but he was knocked out by a very good Puerto Rican early in the Games.
Alex turned pro afterwards with Bobby Neill and racked up 13 straight wins to secure a British title shot at Tony Willis. Boxing News went for Willis but Dickson got stuck into the champion and shrugged off cuts over both eyes to triumph after 12 gruelling rounds. After a deserved break, Dickson defended against Glasgow's Steve Boyle and once again chose to slug it out when the whole world knew he had to box a man like Boyle. Dickson walked on to a big Boyle hook in the second and that was that.
Sadly, Alex lacked the chin to get any further than the British title. He was well and truly 'out' in the Olympics and American Joey Belinc also flattened him in the unpaid ranks. His last ever fight, in 1990, summed up his entire career. Alex boxed the ears off Manchester's Tony Ekubiua for 10 rounds but got nailed in the 11th and down he went for the count.

jameswilson wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 10:25 Not necessarily on talent but Danny Williams has won a lot of British title fights across several ‘generations’ of heavyweights.

jameswilson wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 10:25 Not necessarily on talent but Danny Williams has won a lot of British title fights across several ‘generations’ of heavyweights.

Coco wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 09:46

bennie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 09:21

Coco wrote: ↑07 Aug 2022, 07:34 Do you know more about Alex Dickson, good amateur, looked great in beating Wills, fell apart against Steve Boyle in his first defence, and never managed to push on again

Yes, Alex was an outstanding amateur. I saw Jim McDonnell outscore him in a thrilling ABA semi-final in 1982 and a year later, Kenny Willis outscored him in another thrilling ABA semi-final. Kenny is the older of Tony. In 1984, Dickson came good when he outboxed and outpointed Carl Crook to win the ABA lightweight title and a place on the Olympic team in Los Angeles, but he was knocked out by a very good Puerto Rican early in the Games.
Alex turned pro afterwards with Bobby Neill and racked up 13 straight wins to secure a British title shot at Tony Willis. Boxing News went for Willis but Dickson got stuck into the champion and shrugged off cuts over both eyes to triumph after 12 gruelling rounds. After a deserved break, Dickson defended against Glasgow's Steve Boyle and once again chose to slug it out when the whole world knew he had to box a man like Boyle. Dickson walked on to a big Boyle hook in the second and that was that.
Sadly, Alex lacked the chin to get any further than the British title. He was well and truly 'out' in the Olympics and American Joey Belinc also flattened him in the unpaid ranks. His last ever fight, in 1990, summed up his entire career. Alex boxed the ears off Manchester's Tony Ekubiua for 10 rounds but got nailed in the 11th and down he went for the count.

Nice one pal, any idea about him in retirement?