But on another track, who do you think will have a better career at HW, Anderson or Torrez?
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 01 Sep 2022, 19:39
by margaret thatcher
that's not the golden gloves, notice the part where it doesnt say golden gloves anywhere. the usa has 3 major national tournaments at senior level: usa national championship, national golden gloves, and the PAL national championship
try this- 2017 national golden gloves quarterfinal, look at the first result
as for the second question, jah is looking extra studly and i'd have to side with him, but i'm higher on ricky t than a lot of people are. also he's not even that small. he's an absolute tank at 230. he's just a shorty. that can be a factor but its not the same as being a generally tiny heavy
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 02 Sep 2022, 00:05
by punchoutsb
Anderson is more polished now, but I still think Torrez has more in him going forward. I think he’s the better long run bet.
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 02 Sep 2022, 00:11
by KiwiRider
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Sep 2022, 21:59
as for the second question, jah is looking extra studly and i'd have to side with him, but i'm higher on ricky t than a lot of people are. also he's not even that small. he's an absolute tank at 230. he's just a shorty. that can be a factor but its not the same as being a generally tiny heavy
I'm high on Torrez too, I just think at the highest level, those guys will have his measure. And we don't know how good his engine is until he goes at least ten. I think his style is quite taxing, so we will have to see how that pans out. If he can keep it up, then I'll reassess..
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Sep 2022, 21:59
as for the second question, jah is looking extra studly and i'd have to side with him, but i'm higher on ricky t than a lot of people are. also he's not even that small. he's an absolute tank at 230. he's just a shorty. that can be a factor but its not the same as being a generally tiny heavy
I'm high on Torrez too, I just think at the highest level, those guys will have his measure. And we don't know how good his engine is until he goes at least ten. I think his style is quite taxing, so we will have to see how that pans out. If he can keep it up, then I'll reassess..
I hate to spoil the party but Torrez isn't much beyond a regional prospect. His style demands a good chin, good stamina, and some defense. He not going to out box a top 50 guy at box rec. He's fun to watch and will look good vs the grade c prospects and usual suspects on the way up, but he's no threat to break the top ten.
oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Aug 2022, 23:02
Anderson's am career didn't end with an olympic gold, but it's far from lacking.
I said before, Torres gives me a baby joe mesi vibe.
Anderson ended at 23-5, without winning any internatiaoanl event, even the regional ones. Like I said he didn't have a lot of fights, and didn't beat anyone who has turned pro, hence it was lacking. You don't have to win Olympic gold in to have good experience either.
I have access to a good list if heavyweight prospects under age 35 if you want to see it.
Why would I want that?
Anyway, he had decent am experience in the US.
By decent I was taking about the Olympics , the World Amateur Champions, or the World Series of Boxing. Anderson want close. The best young pros tend to do well here, I'm sure you are aware. The best fighters in the AM win matches here and make these events. Anderson didn't. I'd even consider the European champions a good 4th type of event. Anyone who wins Bronze or better is a good prospect.
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 02 Sep 2022, 21:12
by KiwiRider
Here's a little promo clip of Richard Torrez jr talking about his drive and conditioning.
And doing some old school training
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Sep 2022, 21:59
as for the second question, jah is looking extra studly and i'd have to side with him, but i'm higher on ricky t than a lot of people are. also he's not even that small. he's an absolute tank at 230. he's just a shorty. that can be a factor but its not the same as being a generally tiny heavy
I'm high on Torrez too, I just think at the highest level, those guys will have his measure. And we don't know how good his engine is until he goes at least ten. I think his style is quite taxing, so we will have to see how that pans out. If he can keep it up, then I'll reassess..
I hate to spoil the party but Torrez isn't much beyond a regional prospect. His style demands a good chin, good stamina, and some defense. He not going to out box a top 50 guy at box rec. He's fun to watch and will look good vs the grade c prospects and usual suspects on the way up, but he's no threat to break the top ten.
Torrez has been knocked out 1 time as an amateur. Numerous all time greats were knocked out as amateurs. Especially when they were young. Torrez was 19 when knocked out.
For Christ sake Ali was ko'd twice as an amateur. Did he have a suspect chin?
Some people write off a prospect for no legitimate reason. Torrez is a silver medalist and is very young. He could be a star
Anderson ended at 23-5, without winning any internatiaoanl event, even the regional ones. Like I said he didn't have a lot of fights, and didn't beat anyone who has turned pro, hence it was lacking. You don't have to win Olympic gold in to have good experience either.
I have access to a good list if heavyweight prospects under age 35 if you want to see it.
Why would I want that?
Anyway, he had decent am experience in the US.
By decent I was taking about the Olympics , the World Amateur Champions, or the World Series of Boxing. Anderson want close. The best young pros tend to do well here, I'm sure you are aware. The best fighters in the AM win matches here and make these events. Anderson didn't. I'd even consider the European champions a good 4th type of event. Anyone who wins Bronze or better is a good prospect.
I know what you meant. I just don't agree.
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 03 Sep 2022, 00:42
by margaret thatcher
anderson turned pro when he was like 19 remember, that's hardly any time to build a senior international career at super heavy. hardly anyone these days is a standout senior amateur at shw as a teen
if we look at the really accomplished amateur super heavys of late, yoka, dychko, hrgovic, joyce, jalo , etc.......these guys were still in the ams in their mid 20s. look at how jalo and yoka were losing regularly in international competition in their early 20s, yet by their mid 20s both won world + olympic gold.
im sure if anderson boxed amateur till he was 25 he'd have a much stronger am record, but would that make his pro career any better?
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 03 Sep 2022, 03:41
by mikebourkefan
Richard Torrez has looked good in his 3 pro fights but let's see what happens when he fights better opponents. Canedo was coming off 2 losses
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 03 Sep 2022, 04:13
by KiwiRider
mikebourkefan wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 03:41
Richard Torrez has looked good in his 3 pro fights but let's see what happens when he fights better opponents. Canedo was coming off 2 losses
He scored an SD with Dainier Pero at the Olympics. I believe Pero was the second best in the world at the time, and a very slippery experienced Cuban schooled guy who I thought was a sure finalist with Jalolov.
That alone puts Torrez into the top 30 in a pretty weak division below the top 5 guys.
I can't find the Pero fight online unfortunately.
By decent I was taking about the Olympics , the World Amateur Champions, or the World Series of Boxing. Anderson want close. The best young pros tend to do well here, I'm sure you are aware. The best fighters in the AM win matches here and make these events. Anderson didn't. I'd even consider the European champions a good 4th type of event. Anyone who wins Bronze or better is a good prospect.
I know what you meant. I just don't agree.
You don't agree that the events I mentioned are important developmental grounds and meddling in them proves something?
Or you think it won't matter for Anderson? Outside of Fury pretty much all champions ( alphabet variety WBC,WBA, IBF, WBO ) have done well in the events I mentioned for the past 25 years.
Re: American Heavyweights. 3 Prospects
Posted: 03 Sep 2022, 12:43
by SportsRatings
Anderson is the furthest along in his pro career. Milton is just starting to fight the "decent journeymen" level of fighter, and Torrez isn't there yet obviously. So it's hard to compare them so early in their pro careers.
But Torrez beat Milton to get to the Olympics, right? And got a silver medal, I think that puts him as the best longer term prospect. Assuming he steps up to decent competition within the next few years and doesn't have any setbacks, I could see him holding a belt eventually, though I doubt he'll be the overall #1 given his problem fighting bigger fighters like Jalolov.
Anderson should make the Ring top ten at some point, with Milton ranked in the ABC's top 15s.
By decent I was taking about the Olympics , the World Amateur Champions, or the World Series of Boxing. Anderson want close. The best young pros tend to do well here, I'm sure you are aware. The best fighters in the AM win matches here and make these events. Anderson didn't. I'd even consider the European champions a good 4th type of event. Anyone who wins Bronze or better is a good prospect.
I know what you meant. I just don't agree.
You don't agree that the events I mentioned are important developmental grounds and meddling in them proves something?
Or you think it won't matter for Anderson? Outside of Fury pretty much all champions ( alphabet variety WBC,WBA, IBF, WBO ) have done well in the events I mentioned for the past 25 years.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Sep 2022, 21:59
as for the second question, jah is looking extra studly and i'd have to side with him, but i'm higher on ricky t than a lot of people are. also he's not even that small. he's an absolute tank at 230. he's just a shorty. that can be a factor but its not the same as being a generally tiny heavy
I'm high on Torrez too, I just think at the highest level, those guys will have his measure. And we don't know how good his engine is until he goes at least ten. I think his style is quite taxing, so we will have to see how that pans out. If he can keep it up, then I'll reassess..
I hate to spoil the party but Torrez isn't much beyond a regional prospect. His style demands a good chin, good stamina, and some defense. He not going to out box a top 50 guy at box rec. He's fun to watch and will look good vs the grade c prospects and usual suspects on the way up, but he's no threat to break the top ten.
mikebourkefan wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 03:41
Richard Torrez has looked good in his 3 pro fights but let's see what happens when he fights better opponents. Canedo was coming off 2 losses
He scored an SD with Dainier Pero at the Olympics. I believe Pero was the second best in the world at the time, and a very slippery experienced Cuban schooled guy who I thought was a sure finalist with Jalolov.
That alone puts Torrez into the top 30 in a pretty weak division below the top 5 guys.
I can't find the Pero fight online unfortunately.
i am a fan of Richard Torrez jr from only seeing his pro fights in fact saw this last one in the theater, i look forward to his fight's he is a hometown guy
