BoxRec

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 17:50**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 17:46 i think jc was a level above froch, wouldve beaten him clearly. i think froch has stronger wins overall if you add them up, but to me their results vs kessler sum up what i see as jc being the superior fighter

I don't see how Froch has stronger wins overall, Calzaghe wrecked two guys coming off robberies Vs Ottke, Sheika after his win vs Johnson, Veit was C + level but he got knocked out like one, Robin Reid former WBC champ robbed Vs Ottke etc

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 17:52**

In neither quality nor quantity does Frochs resume beat Calzaghes

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 17:54**

Veit for example outclassed Brahmer in the first who was a long reigning light heavyweight champ, but he's seen just as the big dopey eurobum Calzaghe blew away

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 18:30**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 17:46 i think jc was a level above froch, wouldve beaten him clearly. i think froch has stronger wins overall if you add them up, but to me their results vs kessler sum up what i see as jc being the superior fighter. he had more tools to work with and was extremely fit himself, froch wouldnt grind him down

fair

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 18:56**

GreenLightning wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 17:52 In neither quality nor quantity does Frochs resume beat Calzaghes

disagree

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 22:04**

Spud wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 09:58 Now there was a fighter … Andre Ward.

I think a prime Ward would have beaten Calzaghe.

I wanted Ward to come back and fight Alvarez. He's done everything though. What a man!

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 22:06**

I thought Trout and Lara were unlucky against Canelo. I was watching BJS against Canelo with no sound. I was totally shocked when the stoppage came and they gave him every round. What's the point even fighting him at this point? They didn't Rob Bivol because they couldn't. That first GGG fight was a joke too. He couldn't miss with the jab.

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 22:28**

joe was an absolute top super mid fighter and light heavy you would need an andre ward to beat him , he would beat of saul

Posted: **19 Nov 2022, 23:38**

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 11:36
polecateddy wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 11:10 Hard to pinpoint where Calzaghe’s peak sits. The obvious choice everyone picks was probably when his hands were shot and he was winning every fight on points. Thinking of Sturm v De La Hoya, some America judges might plump for Canelo on home ground. I don’t think any serious polls in Boxing News ever put Calzaghe above Jones. I think it’s fair comment Ward would have had live chances with his accuracy. Maybe Calzaghe squeaks it on home territory. I don’t think in America he would ever have beaten Ward.
Prime Ward, before the layoff would have beaten any Super Middle in history for me.

Even the Roy Jones that schooled Toney?

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 07:27**

This is an interestingly timed post for me, because I was a harsh critic of Calzaghe's career.

In retrospect, I have made major revisions to my view of Joe.

I always knew Calzaghe was good...3 ABA titles at 3 different weights in 3 consecutive years. Alarm bells were ringing

His career, however, was frustrating to watch and some of the opposition was so poor.

By coincidence, yesterday I watched Calzaghe v Charles Brewer for the first time since I watched it live on Skysports.

Although Joe chose to win the fight the hard way...the truth is Calzaghe was absolutely formidable.
I invite anyone to watch that fight and see the sort of determination Calzaghe possessed (it was also a bloody good fight

)

He was sometimes guilty of dropping the standard of his performance to his opponent's level, had a few close scrapes (err, hello...46 fights...there's going to be close calls), but always found a way to rise above any set of problems he was faced with. It was impossible to extinguish his competitive spirit.

He was a very special fighter

No question, Calzaghe beats any version of Canelo IMO.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 07:45**

594333 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 23:38
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 11:36
polecateddy wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 11:10 Hard to pinpoint where Calzaghe’s peak sits. The obvious choice everyone picks was probably when his hands were shot and he was winning every fight on points. Thinking of Sturm v De La Hoya, some America judges might plump for Canelo on home ground. I don’t think any serious polls in Boxing News ever put Calzaghe above Jones. I think it’s fair comment Ward would have had live chances with his accuracy. Maybe Calzaghe squeaks it on home territory. I don’t think in America he would ever have beaten Ward.
Prime Ward, before the layoff would have beaten any Super Middle in history for me.
Even the Roy Jones that schooled Toney?

Yes, just my opinion of course. Roy was only beating the same guy Dave Tiberi did before and Montell Griffin did twice after.

Roy was great, but pre-layoff Ward would have taken him.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 11:36**

Any chance of adding a Poll to your post, Spud ??

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 13:10**

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 07:27 This is an interestingly timed post for me, because I was a harsh critic of Calzaghe's career.

In retrospect, I have made major revisions to my view of Joe.

I always knew Calzaghe was good...3 ABA titles at 3 different weights in 3 consecutive years. Alarm bells were ringing

His career, however, was frustrating to watch and some of the opposition was so poor.

By coincidence, yesterday I watched Calzaghe v Charles Brewer for the first time since I watched it live on Skysports.

Although Joe chose to win the fight the hard way...the truth is Calzaghe was absolutely formidable.
I invite anyone to watch that fight and see the sort of determination Calzaghe possessed (it was also a bloody good fight )

He was sometimes guilty of dropping the standard of his performance to his opponent's level, had a few close scrapes (err, hello...46 fights...there's going to be close calls), but always found a way to rise above any set of problems he was faced with. It was impossible to extinguish his competitive spirit.

He was a very special fighter

No question, Calzaghe beats any version of Canelo IMO.

The same Charles Brewer who got blown away inside a round by the legendarily hard-punching Lonnie "Honey Bee" Beasley down at light-middleweight and dropped twice by an overweight, over-the-hill Herol Graham? A win for the ages.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 15:24**

Brewer was still a force and Calzghe locked horns & pounded out a wide points win. He could have outboxed him (much to Enzo Calzaghe's fury) but my point was his determination was there for all to see.

Beasley caught Brewer with a sensational uppercut but Brewer went onto become a world champion a stone heavier in weight. Charles wasn't ultra sturdy but could fight hard and would bring the heat.

You forgot to mention Graham got stopped by Brewer !

Brewer hit hard and at no point was Calaghe in danger of being beaten.

Even when Calzaghe was hurt in other fights he'd always come back.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 16:15**

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 07:45
594333 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 23:38
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 11:36

Prime Ward, before the layoff would have beaten any Super Middle in history for me.
Even the Roy Jones that schooled Toney?
Yes, just my opinion of course. Roy was only beating the same guy Dave Tiberi did before and Montell Griffin did twice after.

Roy was great, but pre-layoff Ward would have taken him.

'Only' beating the guy who beat Nunn, Johnson, Sosa, McCallum, Barklay, Williams, Jirov, Holyfield...

The two Griffin fights were rightly regarded as controversial decisions, and while Toney was gifted one himself against Tiberi to pretend that was the limit of his ability is pathetic.

Jones would befuddle Ward imo.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 16:41**

Billy Tully wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:15
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 07:45
594333 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 23:38

Even the Roy Jones that schooled Toney?
Yes, just my opinion of course. Roy was only beating the same guy Dave Tiberi did before and Montell Griffin did twice after.

Roy was great, but pre-layoff Ward would have taken him.
'Only' beating the guy who beat Nunn, Johnson, Sosa, McCallum, Barklay, Williams, Jirov, Holyfield...

The two Griffin fights were rightly regarded as controversial decisions, and while Toney was gifted one himself against Tiberi to pretend that was the limit of his ability is pathetic.

Jones would befuddle Ward imo.

Toney was gifted the Reggie Johnson fight and the first McCallum. A one eyed Barkley that Benn did in a round. A weight drained Charles Williams fighting 7lbs below his natural weight class. Were Jirov and Holyfield before or after his two failed drug tests?

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 16:58**

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:41
Billy Tully wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:15
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 07:45

Yes, just my opinion of course. Roy was only beating the same guy Dave Tiberi did before and Montell Griffin did twice after.

Roy was great, but pre-layoff Ward would have taken him.
'Only' beating the guy who beat Nunn, Johnson, Sosa, McCallum, Barklay, Williams, Jirov, Holyfield...

The two Griffin fights were rightly regarded as controversial decisions, and while Toney was gifted one himself against Tiberi to pretend that was the limit of his ability is pathetic.

Jones would befuddle Ward imo.
Toney was gifted the Reggie Johnson fight and the first McCallum. A one eyed Barkley that Benn did in a round. A weight drained Charles Williams fighting 7lbs below his natural weight class. Were Jirov and Holyfield before or after his two failed drug tests?

Wasn't the result of his first fight with McCallum a draw, hence the rematch? I thought Toney won their first meeting and had McCallum hurt in the last round and the second bout was the closer of the two.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 17:02**

Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:58
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:41
Billy Tully wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:15

'Only' beating the guy who beat Nunn, Johnson, Sosa, McCallum, Barklay, Williams, Jirov, Holyfield...

The two Griffin fights were rightly regarded as controversial decisions, and while Toney was gifted one himself against Tiberi to pretend that was the limit of his ability is pathetic.

Jones would befuddle Ward imo.
Toney was gifted the Reggie Johnson fight and the first McCallum. A one eyed Barkley that Benn did in a round. A weight drained Charles Williams fighting 7lbs below his natural weight class. Were Jirov and Holyfield before or after his two failed drug tests?
Wasn't the result of his first fight with McCallum a draw, hence the rematch? I thought Toney won their first meeting and had McCallum hurt in the last round and the second bout was the closer of the two.

I thought McCallum won both.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 17:15**

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 17:02
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:58
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 16:41

Toney was gifted the Reggie Johnson fight and the first McCallum. A one eyed Barkley that Benn did in a round. A weight drained Charles Williams fighting 7lbs below his natural weight class. Were Jirov and Holyfield before or after his two failed drug tests?
Wasn't the result of his first fight with McCallum a draw, hence the rematch? I thought Toney won their first meeting and had McCallum hurt in the last round and the second bout was the closer of the two.
I thought McCallum won both.

I don't.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 17:39**

I love McCallum but to say Toney got a gift draw in the first fight is

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 17:57**

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 17:39 I love McCallum but to say Toney got a gift draw in the first fight is

McCallum was lucky the ref didn't count a KD against him in the first fight otherwise he would have correctly lost by decision, which the ringside press thought he did. Toney should be 3-0 over the Body Snatcher.

Imagine trading punches with Sosa, Jones, Nunn, McCallum, Johnson, Williams, Barklay, Jirov, Holyfield, Ruiz, Peter, Rahman etc etc, only for a man on the Internet called 'Keith Moon Hangover' to crap over your accomplishments.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 18:25**

I thought the first fight was close.

Posted: **20 Nov 2022, 19:19**

Ward and Toney are both great boxers. I'd pick Ward to beat Toney. Ward was very good at solving riddles and was very strong on the inside (not to mention dirty).

Posted: **21 Nov 2022, 07:21**

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑20 Nov 2022, 11:36 Any chance of adding a Poll to your post, Spud ??

Poll added

Posted: **21 Nov 2022, 08:19**

Would,nt mind seeing another poll , of who's British and who's not when it comes to the poll... Think the British really do in there quest for hero'es tend to let time favor there countrymen ,, Big fan of Calagzie here and Froch , but just like Benn and Uebank there carreers although great carreers were not littered with fighting the best when they were in there prime .

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