BoxRec

littlepug wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 15:43 I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 08:57 5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:43

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 08:57 5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:43

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 08:57 5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

Coco wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 09:52

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:43

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 08:57 5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I had a flick at that book, poor really, his choice of journeymen to be interviewed was def odd.

jonp wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 16:11

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 14:59 I can see why someone tries harder on home turf but I’ve no idea why southern and central areas would be different

Because fighters know where they will get a fairer deal from the local refs tbh So they try harder because its worth going for it because if you do the job theres a good chance youl get the nod

Verdi wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

littlepug wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 15:43 I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

I wouldn't call Harley Benn a prospect. He's just got a famous surname. He's shit.

Verdi wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

littlepug wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 15:43 I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

I wouldn't call Harley Benn a prospect. He's just got a famous surname. He's shit.

TheGman wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 11:29 A good family friend and sparring partner of mine back in the day would never turn up knowing he would lose,he always fought to win and never ever looked on himself as a journeyman,he hated being called this.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/22830

Coco wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 12:00

TheGman wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 11:29 A good family friend and sparring partner of mine back in the day would never turn up knowing he would lose,he always fought to win and never ever looked on himself as a journeyman,he hated being called this.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/22830

And look how many champions he fought

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 05:21

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:43

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 08:57 5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I think one of the differences between here and America is that they put on mid-west shows where the journeyman is actually the big name, so you get the like of Buck Smith , Marty Jakubowski etc running up impressive records, you would have a journeyman in the UK being able to do that.
Guess you could say Tony Booth is an example of it .

JackSprocket wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 12:35 The crazy thing in Turley's book was that 5-80 or something like that dude who still thought he is gonna be a real contender some day. Also the stories of some of the journeymen snorting coke and drinking booze in the dressing room right before a fight.

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 13:46 America always had good fun journeyman heavyweights , they don't seem to be around that much anymore