Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Jan 2023, 12:10
You are entitled to your opinion. However you should not factor that in when rating them because it didn't actually happen. Ibeabuchi actually did stop Byrd.
If you are going to factor in what would have happened, then you have to go with Tyson over Klitschko because glass jaw wouldn't have lasted too long in that one.
I've established that I don't rate guys on who I think would win a Mythical Fight. Which you'd know if you could comprehend simple points.
Then you should not have brought it up.
I only brought it up because I saw a few others mention Ingo and Patterson beating up Tua like it's a given that that's what would happen.
Also I don't need your permission to bring up whatever I please.
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
Nope. Nope. Nope.
Did Johansson beat Sonny Liston?
I think it's unlikely, as they never fought each other, but maybe you could tell me otherwise.
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
Nope. Nope. Nope.
Did Johansson beat Sonny Liston?
I think it's unlikely, as they never fought each other, but maybe you could tell me otherwise.
The thing is, Ingo's achievements are louder on paper. And he was so short-lived.
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
Nope. Nope. Nope.
There's cases where a Rock solid contender of a great time for a division is as good as a Champion from another.
A good example of this would be like say Bennie Briscoe. He may not be a Top 10 or Top 20 Middleweight, but he'd definitely have kicked the asses of some of the lesser Middleweight Champions throughout history, and often went neck and neck with some of the very best ones.
I have said that I had Byrd ahead by 1 point in a dreadful fight. One round after another where almost nothing happened.
If Klitschko himself actually thought he was way ahead, he wouldn't have quit.
Johannson beat Patterson and Machen. I think that trumps Tua and the crappy fight with Quitsko.
Each had their bad losses as well.
Close call, I give Johannson the edge. Certainly arguable.
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
Nope. Nope. Nope.
There's cases where a Rock solid contender of a great time for a division is as good as a Champion from another.
A good example of this would be like say Bennie Briscoe. He may not be a Top 10 or Top 20 Middleweight, but he'd definitely have kicked the asses of some of the lesser Middleweight Champions throughout history, and often went neck and neck with some of the very best ones.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 16:08
never quit with half his face gone vs lewis, yet broken into submission by the byrd. chris was a beast, outboxing then stoppin fools
Who you rate higher? Byrd or the illustrious Big Cat Williams?
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 16:08
never quit with half his face gone vs lewis, yet broken into submission by the byrd. chris was a beast, outboxing then stoppin fools
Who you rate higher? Byrd or the illustrious Big Cat Williams?
In my simulation ranking's these fighters are separated by a large margin.
While Inge does fairly well in simulation he isn't close to Chris Byrd.
Inge barely makes the top 60 #58
While Byrd is ranked #24
Whatever Byrd lacked in power he made up for in other area's.
Chris Byrd is one of the biggest shocks to me in simulation. But simulation works based on how they fare against others.
Based on where Wladamir is ranked you don't get a grand canyon margin between fighters (generally speaking).
As i stated previously between Every Heavyweight that ever existed Charles & Walcott fell right next to each other in simulation.
Although there is a fairly big margin between Tyson & Buster Douglass it isn't gigantic.
I always argued if you have Jack Dempsey as a top 20 and you have Gene Tunney as a top 20. You sure better not have Tommy Gibbons outside of a Top 60. Simulation will tell you your are incorrect by doing that.
Simulation has Gibbons ranked as a Light heavyweight. But the theory itself is accurate to me and has been proved accurate in simulation.
Caractacus wrote: ↑30 Jan 2023, 16:33
Chris Byrd was never the "Undisputed" HW Champ like Ingo had been ( short-lived that it was ).
Sometimes better fighters didn't make it in contrast to the worst ones. For example, Ron Lyle wasn't an undisputed champion, while Leon Spinks was.
Never mind the fact that back in those times there was only one belt to go after when in Byrd's time there was three major belts and minor belt to go after. It was basically the Klitschko era that made that minor belt into a major championship so now you are not undisputed champion unless you have all four belts.
And think about it do you really believe Johansson could unify four belts in this era? I don't think he would have been more than a singular alphabet champion in this time. Not just because of the stiffer competition because of size differentials but because of the politics and maneuvering of this time period in boxing today makes it virtually impossible to arrange undisputed fights.
It was easy to do in the 1980s mostly because Don King controlled all of the contracts for every name heavyweight in the business. He single-handedly arranged all of the tournaments in which Mike Tyson ultimately won.
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑31 Jan 2023, 00:43
Never mind the fact that back in those times there was only one belt to go after when in Byrd's time there was three major belts and minor belt to go after. It was basically the Klitschko era that made that minor belt into a major championship so now you are not undisputed champion unless you have all four belts.
A fact of Klitschkos possessing that belt did put some points into the significance of WBO, but the main factor among the others is probably De La Hoya winning it and putting it on the table against Hopkins. In that time Oscar was the major p4p attraction and Hopkins tuned in.
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 12:05
Was Byrd ever the undisputed champion?
Did Byrd ever beat the lineal champion?
Did Byrd beat the best heavyweight in the world?
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑31 Jan 2023, 00:43
Never mind the fact that back in those times there was only one belt to go after when in Byrd's time there was three major belts and minor belt to go after. It was basically the Klitschko era that made that minor belt into a major championship so now you are not undisputed champion unless you have all four belts.
A fact of Klitschkos possessing that belt did put some points into the significance of WBO, but the main factor among the others is probably De La Hoya winning it and putting it on the table against Hopkins. In that time Oscar was the major p4p attraction and Hopkins tuned in.
De La Hoya "winning" the WBO title from Felix Sturm certainly did give credibility to the organization because it was a high-profile name holding that title for sure but without question it was Vladimir Klitschko that made that organization credible with multiple title defenses of it.
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑31 Jan 2023, 00:43
Never mind the fact that back in those times there was only one belt to go after when in Byrd's time there was three major belts and minor belt to go after. It was basically the Klitschko era that made that minor belt into a major championship so now you are not undisputed champion unless you have all four belts.
A fact of Klitschkos possessing that belt did put some points into the significance of WBO, but the main factor among the others is probably De La Hoya winning it and putting it on the table against Hopkins. In that time Oscar was the major p4p attraction and Hopkins tuned in.
De La Hoya "winning" the WBO title from Felix Sturm certainly did give credibility to the organization because it was a high-profile name holding that title for sure but without question it was Vladimir Klitschko that made that organization credible with multiple title defenses of it.
Klitschko also made a series of IBO defences, still no one cares about it. WBO got significance in the mid 00s. Klitschkos' possession of it contributed, but the Oscar affair seemed like the defining factor.
A fact of Klitschkos possessing that belt did put some points into the significance of WBO, but the main factor among the others is probably De La Hoya winning it and putting it on the table against Hopkins. In that time Oscar was the major p4p attraction and Hopkins tuned in.
De La Hoya "winning" the WBO title from Felix Sturm certainly did give credibility to the organization because it was a high-profile name holding that title for sure but without question it was Vladimir Klitschko that made that organization credible with multiple title defenses of it.
Klitschko also made a series of IBO defences, still no one cares about it. WBO got significance in the mid 00s. Klitschkos' possession of it contributed, but the Oscar affair seemed like the defining factor.
Nobody quite cares about the IBO or the IBC belts but make no mistake Anthony Joshua made a big deal about those particular titles, acting like they were worth something when they necessarily are not worth anything.
How the world looks at those titles is the way that people looked at the WBO title back then. I would not be surprised if in the next 10 or 20 years you're not considered undisputed champion unless you have five or six titles around your waist.
It's that kind of ridiculousness that has always made me declare that the only title that truly matters is the lineal championship. Belts are nice but they are just ornaments. Kind of like how I view Joshua and now Usyk's stint as "unified" champion, as being nothing more than pretenders to the crown which is held by Tyson Fury.
Who you rate higher? Byrd or the illustrious Big Cat Williams?