BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 15:07

DrDuke wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 10:40

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 10:35 Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones.

Holy f8cken sh1t, that's the impudently ridiculous level of bias.

For what it's worth I do think Ali won the fight with Jones, but you could certainly argue for a draw. I had it 6-4 Ali, and there's lots of close rounds of course.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 10:35 1. Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones. He fought a great fight. He did get knocked down by Cooper. He got up immediately and dominated the fight before and after that.
Besides, he was still getting better fight by fight at this stage of his career.
2. Ali would have been successful in any era from Corbett on and said why. Don't really care about James Figg and MMA. I am talking about Boxing under Marquis of Queensbury Rules. Not talking about other sports.

Perhaps, most importantly is what you said two days ago:

" I think from this point on I'm no longer commenting to anything that you write"
Yet here you are again.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 17:04 The fight was in Jones' hometown and Ali (Clay) still got the decision. It was voted as the Fight of the Year. (Fairly rare for a fight neither fighter was the champion; it was selected on the high quality of the fight.)
He had only 17 previous fights and had been a pro for only 2 and half years. Interesting how some people use the not enough excuse for someone who older and was much more experienced yet lost.

Ali wins his match (in a great fight) and somehow gets criticized for it.
Interesting....

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑24 Jan 2023, 11:03 I don't think he looked vulnerable at all. He was still improving as a fighter and would get even better, Still, it was a great performance. If someone had never seen him fight before, you would know that he was a great fighter just from that.

I was pointing out that recently another fighter recently was given a free pass by some for losing a fight because he supposedly not had enough experience. That fighter had more experience than Ali did.

I was also pointing out that it was in Jones' hometown for a reason. It's clearly an advantage to be fighting in your hometown in terms of getting a close decision. The judges had to be pretty sure Ali deserved it.

Of course, I have seen the fight. It was not available for many people for decades until Youtube. It was a competitive fight. Jones fought very well himself. However, Ali clearly won 6 of the 10 rounds. Even if you bend over backwards (which is what people do with Ali) you can't legitimately come up with 5 rounds Jones won to make it a draw.

Ali won it fair and square.

p4p1 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 01:25 Using a 20 year old Clay/Ali as a way to show that Ali would be vulnerable in previous era's is a long bow to draw though. He had a great chin, great stamina and high fight IQ. There isn't an era where he wouldn't be the best from Sullivan onwards. His biggest challenge IMO would be Jack Johnson in a 45 round fight. Ali isn't likely to punch himself out just because the fights are longer but the guys trying to hit him while being countered are more than likely to tire faster than usual. I doubt he could dance for 45 rounds but the flip side of that is that he would be sitting down on his punches more with smaller gloves.

I'm not convinced on the wear and tear factor either. Sparring is what causes most of the damage, if you fight every few of weeks instead of sparring it might be more beneficial for your body. Either way HW champions didn't fight anywhere near as much as anyone else. It's easy to forget that 7 of Ali's defences during his first reign were in a 12 month period.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 17:36 There was a post on this several years ago. Nobody who scored it could come up with the 6 rounds.
sometimes there is an uproar of a "controversial decision when there shouldn't be. I'm sure there have been fights that you have seen and don't understand why some people think it was a bad decision.

Some fights have a lot of close rounds, some don't but the total is close. Take De la Hoya-Trinidad. Even if you give Trinidad all of the borderline rounds, he still doesn't have 7 of the 12. This similar, if you give Jones all of the borderline ones, he still doesn't have 6 of the 10.

The bottom line is if someone has to use this fight to try to rip Ali, they are desperate.

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 17:59

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 17:36 There was a post on this several years ago. Nobody who scored it could come up with the 6 rounds.
sometimes there is an uproar of a "controversial decision when there shouldn't be. I'm sure there have been fights that you have seen and don't understand why some people think it was a bad decision.

Some fights have a lot of close rounds, some don't but the total is close. Take De la Hoya-Trinidad. Even if you give Trinidad all of the borderline rounds, he still doesn't have 7 of the 12. This similar, if you give Jones all of the borderline ones, he still doesn't have 6 of the 10.

The bottom line is if someone has to use this fight to try to rip Ali, they are desperate.

Didn't use it to 'rip' Ali. Used it to respond to your post prior. Don't lose the plot. Keep up man!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 21:43 Sugar Ray Robinson is the most overrated fighter ever in my view.

He was not the most complete fighter, either. Last time I checked on film, there are about 11 fighters that were more complete than he.

A great fighter? Yes. The best pound per pound? Not.

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 21:44

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 21:43 Sugar Ray Robinson is the most overrated fighter ever in my view.

He was not the most complete fighter, either. Last time I checked on film, there are about 11 fighters that were more complete than he.

A great fighter? Yes. The best pound per pound? Not.

And another reason why you aren't taken seriously here elmer.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 23:07

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 21:44

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023, 21:43 Sugar Ray Robinson is the most overrated fighter ever in my view.

He was not the most complete fighter, either. Last time I checked on film, there are about 11 fighters that were more complete than he.

A great fighter? Yes. The best pound per pound? Not.

And another reason why you aren't taken seriously here elmer.

Ray is 12 on his list. Lets keep him talking we can end that thread sooner!