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Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 13:43
by gilgamesh
oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:40
DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 20:24
Since your weak mind couldn't produce an argument more worthy, than an ad hominem one, there's nothing to discuss with you.
LL my favorite HW of all time. That said, I remember reading that that "lucky" punch was something he trained to do as his camp saw a flaw tendency watching film of LL. So no...It wasn't a lucky punch.
Nobody's ever thrown a lucky punch in Boxing. I would imagine every single punch you throw is with the intent to help you win the fight. If it KO's your opponent then it achieved what you were hoping for like a motherf*cker...but it wasn't lucky
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 13:43
by oogiebe
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:43
oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:40
DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 20:24
Since your weak mind couldn't produce an argument more worthy, than an ad hominem one, there's nothing to discuss with you.
LL my favorite HW of all time. That said, I remember reading that that "lucky" punch was something he trained to do as his camp saw a flaw tendency watching film of LL. So no...It wasn't a lucky punch.
Nobody's ever thrown a lucky punch in Boxing. I would imagine every single punch you throw is with the intent to help you win the fight. If it KO's your opponent then it achieved what you were hoping for like a motherf*cker...but it wasn't lucky
Exactly right.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 13:44
by gilgamesh
Benny The Kid wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:42
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:33
A little odd that your simulation puts 'em in separate eras. They were basically around at the same time.
The Era's are strictly established by birth years.
Appreciate you clearing that up
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 13:46
by gilgamesh
oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:43
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:43
oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:40
LL my favorite HW of all time. That said, I remember reading that that "lucky" punch was something he trained to do as his camp saw a flaw tendency watching film of LL. So no...It wasn't a lucky punch.
Nobody's ever thrown a lucky punch in Boxing. I would imagine every single punch you throw is with the intent to help you win the fight. If it KO's your opponent then it achieved what you were hoping for like a motherf*cker...but it wasn't lucky
Exactly right.
Now you do gotta feel bad for the guy who's been told by the Mafia that he better go down in the 4th round, and a jab he throws out in Round 1 just to make it seem like he's putting up an effort KO's the guy.
Would that be an UNLUCKY punch?
Considering it's probably not gonna go well for him with the Mob
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 14:13
by oogiebe
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:46
oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:43
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jan 2023, 13:43
Nobody's ever thrown a lucky punch in Boxing. I would imagine every single punch you throw is with the intent to help you win the fight. If it KO's your opponent then it achieved what you were hoping for like a motherf*cker...but it wasn't lucky
Exactly right.
Now you do gotta feel bad for the guy who's been told by the Mafia that he better go down in the 4th round, and a jab he throws out in Round 1 just to make it seem like he's putting up an effort KO's the guy.
Would that be an UNLUCKY punch?
Considering it's probably not gonna go well for him with the Mob
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 23:06
by margaret thatcher
to me they fit in the same general level, mccall obviously had the biggest achievement though and lewis beat mercer clear for me. they shoulda fought each other
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 25 May 2023, 07:29
by clubberlang
McCalls second best win was against Akinwande.
Historically its McCall all day.
Would have been a cracking fight, leaning towards McCall on points, he would need to negate Mercers jab though.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 25 May 2023, 20:30
by Ambling Alp II
If Mercer got the decision against Lewis, many people would be thinking about this differently. At their best Mercer was better. Overall, it's pretty close.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 27 May 2023, 05:19
by Riddick Bowie
Mercer would have probably scored a KO over McCall's foil, Bruno, had that fight in Hong Kong not been nixed on the day. He wasn't out of shape for that one like he was Ferguson I and Wilson, and against Morrison, Holyfield and Lewis we saw what he could do when in shape and in Big Fight Mode.
McCall utterly disgraced himself in the Lewis rematch with his idiotic actions, unparalleled in boxing history. He beat Lewis and won a major world title but that performance in the rematch, in his prime, can't be overlooked. Failing against Bruno where champs Bonecrusher, Spoon, Tyson and Lewis succeeded is also a black mark. Nice wins over Seldon, Damiani and Akinwande though.
I really don't know who ranks higher, not sure if it matters. Both were unprofessional, McCall more often than Mercer. Head to head Mercer has a jab and ring IQ which I would see controlling the fight -- what did McCall have? He was more of a crowding mauler, looking for big rights. Nice uppercut on the inside when he used it, wouldn't mean much against Mercer. We never saw McCall win a war, at the sign of one he would go into sparring partner mode. Mercer has his Cooper, Holyfield, Lewis brawls to point to. The more reliable guy over the distance, which this fight would go, is empirically Mercer.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 29 May 2023, 08:55
by pound per pound
DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 00:42
We had a fun series of this topic, let's contnue it. There was a discussion about these two guys in the other thread, so a lot missed it, that's why we need a poll.
They are close, but IMO Mcall has the greater wins.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 02 Jun 2023, 09:30
by Joson
McCall, by a wide margin.
Re: Who ranks higher historically - Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall?
Posted: 03 Jun 2023, 15:29
by Ambling Alp II
Billy Tully wrote: ↑27 May 2023, 05:19
Mercer would have probably scored a KO over McCall's foil, Bruno, had that fight in Hong Kong not been nixed on the day. He wasn't out of shape for that one like he was Ferguson I and Wilson, and against Morrison, Holyfield and Lewis we saw what he could do when in shape and in Big Fight Mode.
McCall utterly disgraced himself in the Lewis rematch with his idiotic actions, unparalleled in boxing history. He beat Lewis and won a major world title but that performance in the rematch, in his prime, can't be overlooked. Failing against Bruno where champs Bonecrusher, Spoon, Tyson and Lewis succeeded is also a black mark. Nice wins over Seldon, Damiani and Akinwande though.
I really don't know who ranks higher, not sure if it matters. Both were unprofessional, McCall more often than Mercer. Head to head Mercer has a jab and ring IQ which I would see controlling the fight -- what did McCall have? He was more of a crowding mauler, looking for big rights. Nice uppercut on the inside when he used it, wouldn't mean much against Mercer. We never saw McCall win a war, at the sign of one he would go into sparring partner mode. Mercer has his Cooper, Holyfield, Lewis brawls to point to. The more reliable guy over the distance, which this fight would go, is empirically Mercer.
Good post.
It has to be very close. I think we have to take into consideration officiating/judging as well. If the first Lewis fight doesn't get stopped, does McCall beat Lewis? Maybe, maybe not. If Mercer gets the decision against Lewis, he would be ranked much higher than he is now by most people.