BoxRec

lirva33 wrote: I don't know if you're aware that Spinks is a WELTERWEIGHT. 147 pounds. Think about that, because you obviously havent.

He's also possibly the lightest punching undisputed welterweight champ of all time. Big deal!

I'll ask you again - "Why not destroy my argument by giving me a list of fighters he's ko'd with one shot then? If you're that huge a puncher it's not hard - think Naz, Jackson, Hearns etc."

Obviously you can't name me any, so we'll leave it at that.

I know that if you told most people in boxing that Zab had a great chin, they'd rightly assume you're a bleedin idiot

MightyWarrior wrote:

lirva33 wrote: I don't know if you're aware that Spinks is a WELTERWEIGHT. 147 pounds. Think about that, because you obviously havent.

He's also possibly the lightest punching undisputed welterweight champ of all time. Big deal!

I'll ask you again - "Why not destroy my argument by giving me a list of fighters he's ko'd with one shot then? If you're that huge a puncher it's not hard - think Naz, Jackson, Hearns etc."

Obviously you can't name me any, so we'll leave it at that.

I know that if you told most people in boxing that Zab had a great chin, they'd rightly assume you're a bleedin idiot

You ignore the arguments that prove your wrong. Phillips has never put anyone of note down with 1 shot - HENCE PHILLIPS DOESN'T HAVE 1 PUNCH POWER. Zoo put down Zab and Mitchell down with 1 shot.

Zabs taken the best from Micky Ward and Junior Witter amongst others. His chin is very good although world class fighters can tag him with big shots when his chins in the air. If his chin was in his chest people may say he has a great chin.

You've proven you don't understand the concept of 1 punch power or chin.

Judah didn't take Witter's best. Witter barely threw a punch and spent bugger all time trying to land any power shots (phrase I hate but can't stop using).

Judah did well against Ward but that Judah was very, very slick. Let's not forget that Arturo Gatti was able to out-box him and take many many fewer shots in the second and third fights. If Gatti can slip, duck, block as many shots as he did in those two then someone with Judah's speed and style should be able to survive against Ward.

And Spinks couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Great stylist but he never throws punches to do anything other than score points.


Judah got caught with a beautifully times shot against Tszyu. There may have been some luck in it but I am reminded of the old 'the harder I practice the luckier I get' saying (Gary Player?). He doesn't have a glass jaw but he's still not got the best whiskers in the business. The thing is that he doesn't really need them - he rolls quite well with most of the shots he takes and even then he doesn't take an awful lot.

One thing about Judah is that he is constantly moving around, and if someone can time him well, then he is open to be hit with a really crushing shot. His chin isn't glass, the shot he took of Tszyu was perfect, and he caught Judah absolutely flush and Zab never even saw it coming. Judah's unorthodoxy and lack of a traditional defence will always leave him open to that, but few fighters are good enough to exploit it.

Couldn't have put it better myself Coconut.

I mean, what's the point of arguing with two jokers who tell me Zab has a great chin....because he took all those Witter power shots - hilarious

Ricky said it will be hard to train at 2 am ...

what is he 4 years old ? does his mama still bring him milk and cookies after she tucks him in bed ?

ricky looked like fat bastard on that showtime telecast. he had 4 chins.

but I can't wait. should be a good fight.

And I'll concede, Zab's chin isn't exactly made of crystal - but my original point was, just because Tszyu cold cocked him, doesn't mean he's the new Tommy Hearns.

If he'd done that to say, someone like Roberto Duran, or even Tackie or Urkal even, well you can't argue with that.

I think that's fair point. Judah doesn't have a china chin, and Tszyu isn't a devastating one punch KO artist. The truth lies somewhere in between, makes for less interesting comments, but that's how I see it.

Im gonna eat ZU.

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Parodies/Ricky_Hatton.htm

The first one is pretty well done actually, funny.

MightyWarrior wrote:Couldn't have put it better myself Coconut.

I mean, what's the point of arguing with two jokers who tell me Zab has a great chin....because he took all those Witter power shots - hilarious

You sound like you're too stupid to realise that you are contradicting yourself

Mightywarrior: Zab Judah has a china chin
Lirva33: Zab doesn't have a china chin. His chin is decent.
Mightywarrior: Well Tszyu KO'd him. Tszyu has no one punch power so Judah has a china chin.
Coconut: Zab doesn't have a china chin. His chin is decent.
Mightywarrior: Coconut, I couldn't have said it better myself!!



I took exception to you saying Judah had a china chin. I never said he had a great chin. Coconut (and other posters) agree he doesn't have a china chin.

I have won the argument.

Zab Judah DOESN'T have a china chin.

Coconut wrote:
And Spinks couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Great stylist but he never throws punches to do anything other than score points.

So the former undisputed welterwight champion of the world can't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

Why didn't Mayorga run through him then??? Why don't people just charge forward and knock him out? After all, he can't hit!

lirva33 wrote:

Coconut wrote:
And Spinks couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Great stylist but he never throws punches to do anything other than score points.

So the former undisputed welterwight champion of the world can't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

Why didn't Mayorga run through him then??? Why don't people just charge forward and knock him out? After all, he can't hit!

If Mayorga had charged forward then...

Spinks would have moved sideways, countered, scored points.


And LO! it was so.

Saying Spinks can't hit is clearly an exaggeration. He's a pro boxer and he's stopped a few lesser opponents. So fair enough. But at the upper levels (maybe even the mid levels) he knows he's not going to win by stopping anyone, he's going to win by making his opponent miss and by pecking at him with scoring shots while his feet are set for movement, not power.

Your argument is way too simplistic. If that were the case then boxing would just be guys bulling forward trying to work out who could punch harder. That's ice hockey brawling. In many ways that's the way Mayorga likes to box. But he had trouble working out which way to bull forward because of the movement and speed of his shots.

Seriously, you expect anyone to believe that Mayorga, horribly limited though he is, was in any way fazed by the weight of Spinks' shots?

Coconut wrote:

lirva33 wrote:

Coconut wrote:
And Spinks couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Great stylist but he never throws punches to do anything other than score points.

So the former undisputed welterwight champion of the world can't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

Why didn't Mayorga run through him then??? Why don't people just charge forward and knock him out? After all, he can't hit!

If Mayorga had charged forward then...

Spinks would have moved sideways, countered, scored points.


And LO! it was so.

Saying Spinks can't hit is clearly an exaggeration. He's a pro boxer and he's stopped a few lesser opponents. So fair enough. But at the upper levels (maybe even the mid levels) he knows he's not going to win by stopping anyone, he's going to win by making his opponent miss and by pecking at him with scoring shots while his feet are set for movement, not power.

Your argument is way too simplistic. If that were the case then boxing would just be guys bulling forward trying to work out who could punch harder. That's ice hockey brawling. In many ways that's the way Mayorga likes to box. But he had trouble working out which way to bull forward because of the movement and speed of his shots.

Seriously, you expect anyone to believe that Mayorga, horribly limited though he is, was in any way fazed by the weight of Spinks' shots?

If he wasn't then why didn't he just charge in and KO spinks? If i'm fighing against someone my size who is let's say 50 pounds lighter than me, then they cant hurt me. I'll KO them fairly quickly. If they hit hard enough to discourage me, I have a problem.

Lirva - you can't really be suggesting that because Mayorga didn't go steaming in against Spinks then it means Spinks has a good punch. How does that follow?

My analysis:

1. Spinks is a good fighter, excellent accuracy, no KO power at the top levels.
2. If any fighter, fighting another fighter wades in there Mayorga style, he is going to get constantly socked in the chops by good counters.
3. Not much fun being socked in the chops by an 8 oz glove, even if there is no real KO power behind an individual punch.
4. Also, when you are being socked in the mush on the counter, you can't land your own work.

Conclusion: You don't wade in against a world class fighter, even if he cannot easily knock you out.

Were getting away from the main point where Mighty compared Phillips 1punch power to Zoos 1punch power and said if Hatton can take Phillips power he can take Hattons power.

And Zoos power p1sses on Phillips power.

lirva33 wrote:If he wasn't then why didn't he just charge in and KO spinks? If i'm fighing against someone my size who is let's say 50 pounds lighter than me, then they cant hurt me. I'll KO them fairly quickly. If they hit hard enough to discourage me, I have a problem.

So let's say you're in against Willie Pep - you just jump on him and spark him?

Now the difference between you and Pep is probably greater than between Mayorga and Spinks, but the point has to be that it isn't always possible to steamroller a boxer, especially when the boxer is as slick as Spinks and the other guy is as basic as Mayorga.

Tszyu hits harder than Phillips just look at their records and who they've knocked out - end of story.

nickd wrote:Tszyu hits harder than Phillips just look at their records and who they've knocked out - end of story.

Agreed.

It's just a simple case of Mightywarrior trying to build up Hattons chin really and build up his chances against Tszyu.

Loynesy wrote:Lirva - you can't really be suggesting that because Mayorga didn't go steaming in against Spinks then it means Spinks has a good punch. How does that follow?

My analysis:

1. Spinks is a good fighter, excellent accuracy, no KO power at the top levels.
2. If any fighter, fighting another fighter wades in there Mayorga style, he is going to get constantly socked in the chops by good counters.
3. Not much fun being socked in the chops by an 8 oz glove, even if there is no real KO power behind an individual punch.
4. Also, when you are being socked in the mush on the counter, you can't land your own work.

Conclusion: You don't wade in against a world class fighter, even if he cannot easily knock you out.

Listen, at the top level, guys will walk through you if you cannot discourage them. No matter how good you are. TRUST ME. 12 rounds is a lot of time. To say Spinks cannot punch his way out of a paper bag is the most stupid thing I have heard. look what he has accomplished.

lirva33 wrote:

nickd wrote:Tszyu hits harder than Phillips just look at their records and who they've knocked out - end of story.

Agreed.

It's just a simple case of Mightywarrior trying to build up Hattons chin really and build up his chances against Tszyu.

Oh yee of little faith....

and just to annoy everyone I'll say this - as well as Phillips, Zab Judah probably hits as hard as Tszyu. Difference being, he just can't take a hard shot as well as the Russian. If their chins were equal, Zab would've won by 1st round KO.

Check Phillips' record, there's only a few of his 40 odd victims who saw the final bell.

We're talking fractions here - if either Zab, Kostya or Phillips hit you with a full blooded shot, you'd be waking up 5 mins later, hard pressed to tell the difference.

Yes, check the records and of course Tszyu is much the better fighter. I'm not disputing that.

All I'm saying is, if Hatton could take a hard shot off Vince, he'll probably cope ok with a Tszyu punch too.

Trouble is, there's likely to be a lot more coming his way than one or two punches......

That's his main problem.

Even if we say for arguments sake Tszyu and Phillips hit as hard as each other, the amount of decent shots a weight drained Phillips managed to land you could count on one hand. Tszyu on the other hand will land plenty on Hatton's often unguarded chops.

As the fight approaches I feel we'll see people giving Hatton more and more chance just as everyone did with Williams and Klitschko by fight time a lot of people were picking Williams to win where they werent giving him a hope in hell when it was announced.

All good wanting Hatton to win, everyone wants to see the British guys winning proper belts but realistically Hatton is really up against it. I think he'll get taken out pretty early. His problem is he's had so many one sided fights he's never been on the receiving end and will be bigtime and by the hardest puncher he has faced. I just cant make any sort of case for a Hatton win other than Tszyu getting cut or injured.

Just wanted to add - no shame in that however (Hatton losing) as Tszyu is an exceptional fighter.

i believe mighty also tipped williams to beat Klitschko.

Lirva - I didn't say Spinks "can't punch his way out of a paper bag", he just doesn't possess a particularly hard single shot