BoxRec

gp. wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 17:11 Boxing needs to make up its mind whether it is going to stay a sport, or become an entertainment.

All and good but just exactly who is this 'boxing' that needs to make up its mind?

The sport is fragmented into innumerable organizations, each of them pushing their own agendas.

As far as whether boxing is a sport or an entertainment, I think it has been an entertainment first and a sport second, for years.

Boxing has been about entertainment long before John L Sullivan .. before even Yankee Sullivan for that matter too.

The problem boxing faces now is that after numerous changes since TV first became a thing, rot has firmly taken hold and become noticeable since PPV and the social media YouTube/insta/tikTok stuff.

Heavyweights have always been the flagship of the sport - and despite, or maybe because of, the money involved heavyweight division is a corpse being poked with a stick to trick people it's still alive.
Wilder, Fury, Joshua, Joyce, Whyte are all rancid corpses .. yes they can generate interest between each other. But they only really provide a stink.

The rot starts at the top and goes to the roots. We see less coming into boxing. Those who disagree need only to look at how many professionals we have in the UK now compared to the 80/90s.

tonyevs wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 03:42 Those who disagree need only to look at how many professionals we have in the UK now compared to the 80/90s.

What are the numbers?

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 19:02

gp. wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 17:11 Boxing needs to make up its mind whether it is going to stay a sport, or become an entertainment.

All and good but just exactly who is this 'boxing' that needs to make up its mind?

The sport is fragmented into innumerable organizations, each of them pushing their own agendas.

As far as whether boxing is a sport or an entertainment, I think it has been an entertainment first and a sport second, for years.

A good question. It's the lack of a central control that leaves boxing open to this exploitation. If there were a single governing body ranking participants and mandating competitions the way that you have in, for example, tennis, it wouldn't have got this way in the first place.

Is that possible now? Probably not.

It would help if the fighters showed more inclination to actually fight people of similar levels to themselves on a regular basis, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that either. Perhaps when they their earning power has dropped off because the public are paying to see Keith Chegwin fighting Les Dennis instead of to see them, they might have to fight more often just to make ends meet, but who nows.

(I know Keith Chegwin is dead. I am not sure it makes much difference.)

How many BBBoC PPV shows have we had this year? I keep reading we are inundated yet only remember Eubank v Smith and we are nearly in the second half of the year.

gp. wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 05:59
It would help if the fighters showed more inclination to actually fight people of similar levels to themselves on a regular basis, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that either.

The days of fighters being active is over I think, Canelo is probably the most active of the top guys but he’s more of a one off. Obviously far more active fighters over the years but using Joe Bugner as an example in 1973 he fought in a European title fight and less than a month later fought Ali for the title. The very next month he then fought Joe Frazier and a few months later had another European title fight. Then a month later another fight against Mac Foster. And that was a fairly quiet year in terms of number of fights for Bugner. He had more competitive fights in less than a year than some guys manage in their entire career.

Controversial wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:38 Fighters are too afraid to lose and expect big money quickly without achieving much

Well Josh Taylor is now being absolutely slated now wine the Teo loss as being overrated and his competition is so good that they forgot he beat Viktor Pistol in his 12th fight

I'd say with that attitude, are you surprised??

We had a guy who was 19-0 fighting a guy who was 18-1 and they are both p4p fighters/ future HOFers, take it easy on the cynicism please

GreenLightning wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 15:45

Controversial wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:38 Fighters are too afraid to lose and expect big money quickly without achieving much

Well Josh Taylor is now being absolutely slated now wine the Teo loss as being overrated and his competition is so good that they forgot he beat Viktor Pistol in his 12th fight

I'd say with that attitude, are you surprised??

We had a guy who was 19-0 fighting a guy who was 18-1 and they are both p4p fighters/ future HOFers, take it easy on the cynicism please

There are exceptions of course and I don’t think anyone could say JT had an easy run. I was more talking generally, too much emphasis placed
on undefeated records and not being active enough.

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 17:04

GreenLightning wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 15:45

Controversial wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:38 Fighters are too afraid to lose and expect big money quickly without achieving much

Well Josh Taylor is now being absolutely slated now wine the Teo loss as being overrated and his competition is so good that they forgot he beat Viktor Pistol in his 12th fight

I'd say with that attitude, are you surprised??

We had a guy who was 19-0 fighting a guy who was 18-1 and they are both p4p fighters/ future HOFers, take it easy on the cynicism please

There are exceptions of course and I don’t think anyone could say JT had an easy run. I was more talking generally, too much emphasis placed
on undefeated records and not being active enough.

20 fights in 7 years is indeed not a lot, even with the quality taken into account with him being wrong side of 30, agree with that

GreenLightning wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 17:09

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 17:04

GreenLightning wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 15:45



Well Josh Taylor is now being absolutely slated now wine the Teo loss as being overrated and his competition is so good that they forgot he beat Viktor Pistol in his 12th fight

I'd say with that attitude, are you surprised??

We had a guy who was 19-0 fighting a guy who was 18-1 and they are both p4p fighters/ future HOFers, take it easy on the cynicism please

There are exceptions of course and I don’t think anyone could say JT had an easy run. I was more talking generally, too much emphasis placed
on undefeated records and not being active enough.

20 fights in 7 years is indeed not a lot, even with the quality taken into account with him being wrong side of 30, agree with that

Yep he's been very inactive, one fight a year for the last 4 years.

It’s crazy how in UFC / MMA there is very little focus on being unbeaten whereas in boxing there’s a huge focus on it.

Obviously best fighting best is the utopia but with multiple promoters protecting their fighters and maximising their ££ that won’t happen!

So Firstly I’d start with once a pro fighter has 6 wins he can only fight opponents with a winning record.

Secondly when a fighter has (say) 10 / 15 losses they can’t fight anymore .

I assume, taking into account population growth, participation has declined due to the exponential growth of MMA in the last 8-10 years.

A guy local to me is something like 12-1 and the BBBOC have just announced he has a final eliminator for the British MW title.

His last opponent was 0wins 46 losses
His opponent before that had 8 wins and 117 losses

How the fornicate can the BBBOC allow a guy never to win a fight and lose 46 fights in a row,.. allow another guy to lose 117 out of 125 fights!

Basically this kid turned pro 4 years ago, has beat 1 boxer with a winning record and he has a final eliminator for British title!
Not his fault - don’t blame the player blame the game

Wales wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 22:45 A guy local to me is something like 12-1 and the BBBOC have just announced he has a final eliminator for the British MW title.

His last opponent was 0wins 46 losses
His opponent before that had 8 wins and 117 losses

How the fornicate can the BBBOC allow a guy never to win a fight and lose 46 fights in a row,.. allow another guy to lose 117 out of 125 fights!

Basically this kid turned pro 4 years ago, has beat 1 boxer with a winning record and he has a final eliminator for British title!
Not his fault - don’t blame the player blame the game

Boxing has always been that way.

You could be 50-0-0 (50) against 0-0-0 opponents and become the #1 heavyweight in the WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF, etc. based largely off the fact that you are more hyperactive than others who are in competitive matches needing weeks or months to recover and train.

Wales wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 22:36 It’s crazy how in UFC / MMA there is very little focus on being unbeaten whereas in boxing there’s a huge focus on it.

Obviously best fighting best is the utopia but with multiple promoters protecting their fighters and maximising their ££ that won’t happen!

So Firstly I’d start with once a pro fighter has 6 wins he can only fight opponents with a winning record.

Secondly when a fighter has (say) 10 / 15 losses they can’t fight anymore .

I assume, taking into account population growth, participation has declined due to the exponential growth of MMA in the last 8-10 years.

I don’t know what the solution is but it can’t be saying ‘don’t worry about losses’ and also ‘ten losses and you’re done’

Wales wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 22:36

Secondly when a fighter has (say) 10 / 15 losses they can’t fight anymore .

The problem with that are the journeyman who earn a living by being the paid loser, they fight as often as possible and losing isn’t a concern to them,

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 06:09

Wales wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 22:36
Secondly when a fighter has (say) 10 / 15 losses they can’t fight anymore .

The problem with that are the journeyman who earn a living by being the paid loser, they fight as often as possible and losing isn’t a concern to them,

Then there is Chisora, who has had closes losses and is quite popular in the UK, so he's managed to earn some good paydays.

I don't think Boxing, as we knew it, can compete with YouTube boxing.

Social media boxing is similar to a general election campaign which are essentially beauty contests: the YouTube boxers can build a much bigger profile and following more quickly than even fairly established boxers.

Quite why anyone in their right mind would want to see utter nonsense like ' misfits', but it seems a lot of people do.

It's really vital that the top boxers do fight each other as people will move on from boxing: it won't hold their interest.

Wales wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 22:36 It’s crazy how in UFC / MMA there is very little focus on being unbeaten whereas in boxing there’s a huge focus on it.

Obviously best fighting best is the utopia but with multiple promoters protecting their fighters and maximising their ££ that won’t happen!

So Firstly I’d start with once a pro fighter has 6 wins he can only fight opponents with a winning record.

Secondly when a fighter has (say) 10 / 15 losses they can’t fight anymore .

I assume, taking into account population growth, participation has declined due to the exponential growth of MMA in the last 8-10 years.

. M

Because in earlIER days of UFC champions and competitors had patchy records as they had to make ends meet in Busch league fighting shows for pittance, Randy Couture was one of the greatest ever and before he fought his best weight class he was once 14w-8L

big lennox wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 19:17 I don't think Boxing, as we knew it, can compete with YouTube boxing.

Social media boxing is similar to a general election campaign which are essentially beauty contests: the YouTube boxers can build a much bigger profile and following more quickly than even fairly established boxers.

Quite why anyone in their right mind would want to see utter nonsense like ' misfits', but it seems a lot of people do.

It's really vital that the top boxers do fight each other as people will move on from boxing: it won't hold their interest.

They won't stick with it though, they will get bored

mickey1975 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 06:52 How many BBBoC PPV shows have we had this year? I keep reading we are inundated yet only remember Eubank v Smith and we areu nearly in the second half of the year.

You are missing out or forgetting that DAZN have increased their monthly subs.

Part of the sales pitch was less PPV

Spud wrote: ↑26 Jun 2023, 04:28

mickey1975 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 06:52 How many BBBoC PPV shows have we had this year? I keep reading we are inundated yet only remember Eubank v Smith and we areu nearly in the second half of the year.

You are missing out or forgetting that DAZN have increased their monthly subs.

Part of the sales pitch was less PPV

I’m not. It’s subscription, not ppv.

Coco wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:46

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:43

Spud wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:19 I will keep this brief. Professional boxing in this country is a joke.

People are faced with friday night live boxing, having its top of the bill being an 8 round fight between Fraser Clarke & Mariuz Wach.

People can slag off Tommy Fury v KSI all they want but that fight will beat any other 2023 Uk show both in PPV buys and revenue generated.

People slag off misfits and white collar shows But at least the fans are entertained.

If I am wrong please explain why?

Meh, I think that's a perfectly acceptable contest. I have criticised Clarke for boxing Wach at all at this stage but it's fine really innit?

The KSI v Tommy Fury thing will be a better seller than most proper boxing because he has a bigger fanbase willing to pay money to see it but its not really relevant to actual boxing anymore than Top Gun 2 selling more tickets than Tyson Fury v Wilder.

Acceptable contest, not top of the bill

I'm old enough to remember Howard Eastman v Gary Beardsley topping the bill on terrestrial television. If memory serves.

Beardsley got that fight from beating Thirwell, shouldn't have been a bill topper either, but we didn't need to pay for it

I remember that fight...ended with a well timed stoppage by the ref before Beardsley got hurt.

Beardsley may also have been a sub after a pull out.

Spud wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:19 I will keep this brief. Professional boxing in this country is a joke.

People are faced with friday night live boxing, having its top of the bill being an 8 round fight between Fraser Clarke & Mariuz Wach.

People can slag off Tommy Fury v KSI all they want but that fight will beat any other 2023 Uk show both in PPV buys and revenue generated.

People slag off misfits and white collar shows But at least the fans are entertained.

If I am wrong please explain why?

It's died a death huh? Hearn took his ball and went home. Absolute parasite.