BoxRec

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 10:07**

tonyevs wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:03
polecateddy wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:50 In cycling he’d be more a Marco Pantani, than a Lance Armstrong.
Pantani was and still is loved .. drug cheat like his contemporaries - but hugely popular still

Fury would be the Floyd Landis. Another drug cheat who ultimately amounted to little by end of his career.

Landis - yes that’s possible. He was very good on occasion and won The Tour once when the drugs really kicked in for him. A slightly frustrating and divisive figure. Not particularly well thought of in retirement. Yep, quite a good fit!

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 10:16**

1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:04
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:52
si7dog7 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:35 So where does Fury really rate in the pantheon of Heavyweight Champions?

I’m not a “hater”” because. Fairs, fair. He beat Wlad in Germany. Wlad not in my top 20 tbf. And on a big decline.

He’s beaten the biggest puncher “ever” in Wilder, 2.5 times.

Other than that. Chisora x 3.

And……. Not much else

I got him about top 60 l
The other thing that gets ignored with Fury is that both Klitschko's avoided him for years.
What a load of nonsense. Wlad's people reached out to Hennessy several times and were told "He's not ready."

Fury waited until Wlad was old and Luke still needed PEDs to beat him.

Sources. And Wlad wasn't showing signs of slowing down. Wlad came out and did what he normally did but he was up against a much better outboxer than he was used to.

As for PEDs I take it that nearly every top boxer uses them. A tool of the trade type of thing.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 10:24**

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:16
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:04
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:52

The other thing that gets ignored with Fury is that both Klitschko's avoided him for years.
What a load of nonsense. Wlad's people reached out to Hennessy several times and were told "He's not ready."

Fury waited until Wlad was old and Luke still needed PEDs to beat him.
Sources. And Wlad wasn't showing signs of slowing down. Wlad came out and did what he normally did but he was up against a much better outboxer than he was used to.

As for PEDs I take it that nearly every top boxer uses them. A tool of the trade type of thing.

I don’t know if Wlad was slowing down or not. What I do know is that fight was one of the worst I have ever seen.

It certainly wasn’t a new dominant champion, ripping up the odds and announcing himself as the new force as some would have us believe.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 11:03**

Probably makes top 50 just for the vlad and Wilder wins, would break top 30 maybe 25 with wins over AJ and Usyk.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 11:13**

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:16
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 10:04
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:52

The other thing that gets ignored with Fury is that both Klitschko's avoided him for years.
What a load of nonsense. Wlad's people reached out to Hennessy several times and were told "He's not ready."

Fury waited until Wlad was old and Luke still needed PEDs to beat him.
Sources. And Wlad wasn't showing signs of slowing down. Wlad came out and did what he normally did but he was up against a much better outboxer than he was used to.

As for PEDs I take it that nearly every top boxer uses them. A tool of the trade type of thing.

That’s not true at all, he looked terrible against Jennings.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 11:26**

Coco wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:54
Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:26 Legacies are evaluated at the end of careers.
Well said

we are at the end by the looks of it !

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 12:38**

stevec@france wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 11:26
Coco wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:54
Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:26 Legacies are evaluated at the end of careers.
Well said
we are at the end by the looks of it !

Correct!!!

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 13:09**

Spud wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 12:38
stevec@france wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 11:26
Coco wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:54

Well said
we are at the end by the looks of it !
Correct!!!

Agreed. I know Gareth A Davies says this is all building towards Fury vs Uysk, but he said the same thing before abd after Fury boxed Chisora again.

So, the pro's:

*Agile, talented boxer with quick hands, feet and a quick mind.

*Beat Klitschko and Wilder.

*Showed bravery to come off the floor in 4 fights and win

*Overcame a bad cut to win

*Great self publicist.

*Came back from a huge backlash from the press for unsavoury comments.

Cons:

*Failed a PED test and uses Connor Benn's doctor..

*Avoided Uysk
*Avoided Joshua
*Avoided Ruiz
*Avoided a rematch with Wlad
*Cherry picked a number of opponents with no chance against him
*Now boxing a non boxer, who is at least 37 and has had a bad knee instead of taking part in the biggest Heavyweight fight ever.
*Lost the considerable respect he had built up in the eyes of his peers and the general public.

Conclusion:

*Made a lot of money
*Provided entertainment along the way.
*Provided frustration along the way. *Mercurial character.
*Calculated.
*Risk adverse.
*The highs are now balanced out by the significant lows.
*Not an all time great.
*Wasted his boxing talent when it comes to securing what could have been a superb boxing legacy.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 13:11**

Clearly he can’t go that high as a great if we take his best version being the one against Wlad. He edged the fight but looked under-powered. Fresher era leaders would have walked through him, out-speeded him, beaten him to the punch. He was never tested enough and spent most of his career on cruise-mode.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 13:15**

big lennox wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 13:09
Spud wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 12:38
stevec@france wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 11:26

we are at the end by the looks of it !
Correct!!!
Agreed. I know Gareth A Davies says this is all building towards Fury vs Uysk, but he said the same thing before abd after Fury boxed Chisora again.

So, the pro's:

*Agile, talented boxer with quick hands, feet and a quick mind.

*Beat Klitschko and Wilder.

*Showed bravery to come off the floor in 4 fights and win

*Overcame a bad cut to win

*Great self publicist.

*Came back from a huge backlash from the press for unsavoury comments.

Cons:

*Failed a PED test and uses Connor Benn's doctor..

*Avoided Uysk
*Avoided Joshua
*Avoided Ruiz
*Avoided a rematch with Wlad
*Cherry picked a number of opponents with no chance against him
*Now boxing a non boxer, who is at least 37 and has had a bad knee instead of taking part in the biggest Heavyweight fight ever.
*Lost the considerable respect he had built up in the eyes of his peers and the general public.

Conclusion:

*Made a lot of money
*Provided entertainment along the way.
*Provided frustration along the way. *Mercurial character.
*Calculated.
*Risk adverse.
*The highs are now balanced out by the significant lows.
*Not an all time great.
*Wasted his boxing talent when it comes to securing what could have been a superb boxing legacy.

End of thread

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 13:19**

big lennox wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 13:09
Spud wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 12:38
stevec@france wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 11:26

we are at the end by the looks of it !
Correct!!!
Agreed. I know Gareth A Davies says this is all building towards Fury vs Uysk, but he said the same thing before abd after Fury boxed Chisora again.

So, the pro's:

*Agile, talented boxer with quick hands, feet and a quick mind.

*Beat Klitschko and Wilder.

*Showed bravery to come off the floor in 4 fights and win

*Overcame a bad cut to win

*Great self publicist.

*Came back from a huge backlash from the press for unsavoury comments.

Cons:

*Failed a PED test and uses Connor Benn's doctor..

*Avoided Uysk
*Avoided Joshua
*Avoided Ruiz
*Avoided a rematch with Wlad
*Cherry picked a number of opponents with no chance against him
*Now boxing a non boxer, who is at least 37 and has had a bad knee instead of taking part in the biggest Heavyweight fight ever.
*Lost the considerable respect he had built up in the eyes of his peers and the general public.

Conclusion:

*Made a lot of money
*Provided entertainment along the way.
*Provided frustration along the way. *Mercurial character.
*Calculated.
*Risk adverse.
*The highs are now balanced out by the significant lows.
*Not an all time great.
*Wasted his boxing talent when it comes to securing what could have been a superb boxing legacy.

That sir, is a masterful summary.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 13:54**

big lennox wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 13:09
Spud wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 12:38
stevec@france wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 11:26

we are at the end by the looks of it !
Correct!!!
Agreed. I know Gareth A Davies says this is all building towards Fury vs Uysk, but he said the same thing before abd after Fury boxed Chisora again.

So, the pro's:

*Agile, talented boxer with quick hands, feet and a quick mind.

*Beat Klitschko and Wilder.

*Showed bravery to come off the floor in 4 fights and win

*Overcame a bad cut to win

*Great self publicist.

*Came back from a huge backlash from the press for unsavoury comments.

Cons:

*Failed a PED test and uses Connor Benn's doctor..

*Avoided Uysk
*Avoided Joshua
*Avoided Ruiz
*Avoided a rematch with Wlad
*Cherry picked a number of opponents with no chance against him
*Now boxing a non boxer, who is at least 37 and has had a bad knee instead of taking part in the biggest Heavyweight fight ever.
*Lost the considerable respect he had built up in the eyes of his peers and the general public.

Conclusion:

*Made a lot of money
*Provided entertainment along the way.
*Provided frustration along the way. *Mercurial character.
*Calculated.
*Risk adverse.
*The highs are now balanced out by the significant lows.
*Not an all time great.
*Wasted his boxing talent when it comes to securing what could have been a superb boxing legacy.

You forgot:

Avoided David Price
Promised to give his purse to charity.
Failed two tests.
Decked by Neven Whats-his-name

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 14:12**

1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:45
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:40
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:28

Being dropped by people as terrible as Neven Pajkic is something really special and so is (consensus) losing to John McDermott. Ass that to the cheating and what have ya got? Not a lot.
A few posts ago winning a rematch in a devasting fashion was a sure sign of a ATG.
Luke Fury, your idol, cheated his way to the top and now fights a debutant in a real boxing match, not an exhibition. How very proud you must be.

I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 14:14**

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:52
si7dog7 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:35 So where does Fury really rate in the pantheon of Heavyweight Champions?

I’m not a “hater”” because. Fairs, fair. He beat Wlad in Germany. Wlad not in my top 20 tbf. And on a big decline.

He’s beaten the biggest puncher “ever” in Wilder, 2.5 times.

Other than that. Chisora x 3.

And……. Not much else

I got him about top 60 l
I will say I'm painfully disapointed we didn't see Fury in with Haye, Vitali or Wlad a second time. the same with AJ and Usyk. I just hope he has a Calzaghesque end to his career and faces the big guns of his division.

WELL... that wouldn't do it for me, Calzaghe boxed the man that USED to be Roy Jones and the man that USED to be Bernard Hopkins. I like Calzaghe as much as anyone but his standout wins are Lacy and Kessler, his cash out wins are Hopkins and Jones.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 15:12**

The standard of heavyweight boxing has seriously plummeted over the years, and Fury has been the man to capitalise the most.

Good all round movement for a big fella, and he can keep everything together for 12 rounds.

But he is seriously over paid, for what he actually is. Very fortunate man.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 15:38**

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:12
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:45
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:40
A few posts ago winning a rematch in a devasting fashion was a sure sign of a ATG.
Luke Fury, your idol, cheated his way to the top and now fights a debutant in a real boxing match, not an exhibition. How very proud you must be.
I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.

Luke is his real name, Tyson is his middle name

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 15:40**

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:14
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:52
si7dog7 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:35 So where does Fury really rate in the pantheon of Heavyweight Champions?

I’m not a “hater”” because. Fairs, fair. He beat Wlad in Germany. Wlad not in my top 20 tbf. And on a big decline.

He’s beaten the biggest puncher “ever” in Wilder, 2.5 times.

Other than that. Chisora x 3.

And……. Not much else

I got him about top 60 l
I will say I'm painfully disapointed we didn't see Fury in with Haye, Vitali or Wlad a second time. the same with AJ and Usyk. I just hope he has a Calzaghesque end to his career and faces the big guns of his division.
WELL... that wouldn't do it for me, Calzaghe boxed the man that USED to be Roy Jones and the man that USED to be Bernard Hopkins. I like Calzaghe as much as anyone but his standout wins are Lacy and Kessler, his cash out wins are Hopkins and Jones.

Very true.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 16:41**

Coco wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 15:38
leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:12
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:45

Luke Fury, your idol, cheated his way to the top and now fights a debutant in a real boxing match, not an exhibition. How very proud you must be.
I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.
Luke is his real name, Tyson is his middle name

I am aware. Question stands.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 17:30**

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 16:41
Coco wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 15:38
leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:12
John Partridge
I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.
Luke is his real name, Tyson is his middle name
I am aware. Question stands.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 18:33**

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:12
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:45
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:40
A few posts ago winning a rematch in a devasting fashion was a sure sign of a ATG.
Luke Fury, your idol, cheated his way to the top and now fights a debutant in a real boxing match, not an exhibition. How very proud you must be.
I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.

Because that's his name....... Luke Tyson Fury.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 19:09**

From my point of view, the people of boxrec have been basically comparing the Ukrainian to Holyfield or even Ali, for ages now. If Fury fought him and beat him I could guarantee the tune would change, "He really was a blown up middleweight like Fury said so the win is meaningless." No, you stick with the opinion Usyk is an ATG and credit Fury with the win if he does beat Usyk.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 19:29**

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 19:09 From my point of view, the people of boxrec have been basically comparing the Ukrainian to Holyfield or even Ali, for ages now. If Fury fought him and beat him I could guarantee the tune would change, "He really was a blown up middleweight like Fury said so the win is meaningless." No, you stick with the opinion Usyk is an ATG and credit Fury with the win if he does beat Usyk.

I will happily go on record now and say I believe Ali would have beaten Usyk. Really sticking my neck out with that one, but it’s out there now.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 19:30**

1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 18:33
leejonesjnr wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 14:12
1194265 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 09:45

Luke Fury, your idol, cheated his way to the top and now fights a debutant in a real boxing match, not an exhibition. How very proud you must be.
I dislike Fury plenty, but why do you insist on calling him Luke? He boxes as and is known as Tyson Fury.
Because that's his name....... Luke Tyson Fury.

I’m aware what his name is.
He goes by the name Tyson Fury. He boxes as Tyson Fury. He calls himself Tyson Fury. His family call him Tyson Fury. His promotional team call him Tyson Fury. Everyone in boxing calls him Tyson Fury.
Usyk has referenced Luke v Tyson to explain that what people mostly see is a character, but other than that I can’t recall anyone calling him Luke for any reason other than attempting some kind of silly point scoring, which is how your use of the name reads to me.
If you say you call him Luke because you like to be respectful of his Christian name I’ll pretend to believe you and you have your fun.

Posted: **15 Jul 2023, 23:55**

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 19:29
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 19:09 From my point of view, the people of boxrec have been basically comparing the Ukrainian to Holyfield or even Ali, for ages now. If Fury fought him and beat him I could guarantee the tune would change, "He really was a blown up middleweight like Fury said so the win is meaningless." No, you stick with the opinion Usyk is an ATG and credit Fury with the win if he does beat Usyk.
I will happily go on record now and say I believe Ali would have beaten Usyk. Really sticking my neck out with that one, but it’s out there now.

Why do you insist on using the name Ali? It’s ridiculous. It’s Clay. It’s on his birth certificate. Utter fraud.

Posted: **16 Jul 2023, 00:23**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 23:55
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 19:29
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 19:09 From my point of view, the people of boxrec have been basically comparing the Ukrainian to Holyfield or even Ali, for ages now. If Fury fought him and beat him I could guarantee the tune would change, "He really was a blown up middleweight like Fury said so the win is meaningless." No, you stick with the opinion Usyk is an ATG and credit Fury with the win if he does beat Usyk.
I will happily go on record now and say I believe Ali would have beaten Usyk. Really sticking my neck out with that one, but it’s out there now.
Why do you insist on using the name Ali? It’s ridiculous. It’s Clay. It’s on his birth certificate. Utter fraud.

Why do you insist on using the name Tyson? Its ridiculous. Its Luke. Its on his birth certificate. Utter fraud.

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