BoxRec

jwfg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 16:25 The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

I would say more that people were underestimating him, me included, bookies certainly did, 10/1 for him to win by outright stoppage in the first fight against Joyce, 6/1 to win inside six rounds and 19/1 inside three rounds in the second fight. The so called top four have every reason to fear him. Time is not on the blighter's side though at 40 plus.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:22 The so called top four.

Nothing so called about them, they are the top four heavyweights in the world.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

jwfg wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:36

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:22 The so called top four.

Nothing so called about them, they are the top four heavyweights in the world.

I would rate Zhang higher than Joshua certainly.

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Unfortunately we will never know for sure he avoided the fights that would have answered the questions.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

What on earth are we trying to speculate concerning the outcome of a fight between an active fighter Zhang and a retired fighter Fury?

Fury in my humble opinion is finished.

How on earth can he call himself the
No1 fighter and lineal champion yet he has only had 2 fights in 2 years

Spud wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:07

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

What on earth are we trying to speculate concerning the outcome of a fight between an active fighter Zhang and a retired fighter Fury?

Fury in my humble opinion is finished.

How on earth can he call himself the
No1 fighter and lineal champion yet he has only had 2 fights in 2 years

..you forget greatest heavyweight of all time.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:55

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Unfortunately we will never know for sure he avoided the fights that would have answered the questions.

Yes agreed.

I just don`t feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt because he personally refuses to answer the questions. That alone marks him as someone undeserving to ever be placed amongst the greats of the sport.

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:55

jwfg wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:36

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:22 The so called top four.

Nothing so called about them, they are the top four heavyweights in the world.

I would rate Zhang higher than Joshua certainly.

AJ v Zhang would be amazing

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

Fury is rubbish, I reckon Chisora would beat him.......

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:42

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

Fury is rubbish, I reckon Chisora would beat him.......

Great post...

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:44

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:42

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50


Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

Fury is rubbish, I reckon Chisora would beat him.......

Great post...

And there are half a dozen from my local pub who would break his glass chin if they land.

Reminds me of A Force

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:40

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:55

jwfg wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:36

Nothing so called about them, they are the top four heavyweights in the world.

I would rate Zhang higher than Joshua certainly.

AJ v Zhang would be amazing

Nah Joshua would go into his shell again and get caught inside 4 rounds. Wilder vs Zhang is a better fight, two gunslingers, see who is quickest on the draw to the big punch.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:53

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:40

IRONFIST wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:55

I would rate Zhang higher than Joshua certainly.

AJ v Zhang would be amazing

Nah Joshua would go into his shell again and get caught inside 4 rounds. Wilder vs Zhang is a better fight, two gunslingers, see who is quickest on the draw to the big punch.

Good fight too, would still love to see him v AJ

- Solly, Charlies, seen the fight...err brief spar, ie 2 rounds of nothing but air jabbing with a few shots save for Zhang Rt that Joe walked into near the bell. Good shot, but Joe alert had hands in front never went sprawling face first, quickly rolling over and hauling his 280lbs up fully cognizant by 10 sec by my count. Just you find a gym with free weight where you can pack on 280lbs and try to lift it while on the floor.

Coulda been a 9 count like Big George got against Ali with no rematch.

Judgement call by the ref usually favors letting a Big Fight continue for a more definitive outcome, but nope, not Mr Grey. That Joe's Promoter so quickly abandoned him to crow about signing the hereto poorly promoted Zhang who is one of the most heavily protected contenders in history smacks of a contract already drawn up.

Yeah, Chinese Yen beckons, but remember currently China suffering from the ongoing recession as much or more likely more than the Western World, so all them Yens gonna be terribly inflated. Nor am I sold on Zhang claim that 330 mil people in China watched his last fight unless it was on free TV there as part of a popular program. He lives in the US and don't seem ready to go back.

Right now, I'd easily favor Usyk, AJ, and Flubber as they are ranked 1-2-3 in Boxrec.

Dubois an even fight, but Hrg is the biggest fight he might possibly win, but Hrg probably whoops him easier this time now that he has big fight experience.

Boxrec loosers still moaning about the 1st Flubber/McD fight? When Fury knocked him out the last round when after McD turned his back to sprint his 260 lbs of finely marbled British Blubber across the ring to keep from being KTFO?

Always priceless Brit loosers paying out in comedy Gold

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

Any fighter can be made to look bad or average if you want to pick instances out .Who has Usyk beat at HW, he looked average vs Witherspoon and Chisora, beat AJ but few rate AJ anyway and depending on who you ask DDD had him down and badly hurt. Even ATG HWs had fights where they were dropped by average fighters, lost or were lucky to get a decision. You could argue what ATG fighter did Mike Tyson beat, blown up LHW Spinks and an old Holmes who came out of retirement after not fighting for almost 2 years.

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:46

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:44

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 10:42

Fury is rubbish, I reckon Chisora would beat him.......

Great post...

And there are half a dozen from my local pub who would break his glass chin if they land.

Reminds me of A Force

Hilarious stuff. Keep going

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 11:22

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

for him
Any fighter can be made to look bad or average if you want to pick instances out .Who has Usyk beat at HW, he looked average vs Witherspoon and Chisora, beat AJ but few rate AJ anyway and depending on who you ask DDD had him down and badly hurt. Even ATG HWs had fights where they were dropped by average fighters, lost or were lucky to get a decision. You could argue what ATG fighter did Mike Tyson beat, blown up LHW Spinks and an old Holmes who came out of retirement after not fighting for almost 2 years.

It's about opinions mate. People are entitled to disagree. I don't rate Fury at all. Usyk all wrong for him. Agree with your point on Tyson although it was still impressive to be the only man to stop even that version of Holmes. As many holes as can be picked in him I think very few would have Fury competing with a prime Tyson.

How about Bakole VS Zhang ??
Nelson says he smashes zhang to pieces ... Yes ok he says that about any potential opponent .

But that would be a decent fight IMHO

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 12:02

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 11:22

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 09:50


Fury was never that good. He lost the first fight to McDermott, tagged by Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham.. The first Chisora fight was a bad look. He improved but was still getting tagged by a horrible one punch merchant in Wilder who is really poor when you think about it. The Wlad fight was horrific, both fighters fought in a cowardly fashion and either could have got the decision. Fury benefits from running his mouth and people believing his hogwash. Zhang would beat him out of the current crop, Usyk would also. I'd take Hrgovic and Jalolov, the more I think about it I'd pick quite a few to beat him;

for him
Any fighter can be made to look bad or average if you want to pick instances out .Who has Usyk beat at HW, he looked average vs Witherspoon and Chisora, beat AJ but few rate AJ anyway and depending on who you ask DDD had him down and badly hurt. Even ATG HWs had fights where they were dropped by average fighters, lost or were lucky to get a decision. You could argue what ATG fighter did Mike Tyson beat, blown up LHW Spinks and an old Holmes who came out of retirement after not fighting for almost 2 years.

It's about opinions mate. People are entitled to disagree. I don't rate Fury at all. Usyk all wrong for him. Agree with your point on Tyson although it was still impressive to be the only man to stop even that version of Holmes. As many holes as can be picked in him I think very few would have Fury competing with a prime Tyson.

Yeah of course, just saying most fighters can have their career dissected and examples picked out that makes them look bad. I'm not sure Zhang is suddenly a great fighter, dangerous yes but maybe just all wrong for Joyce

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Steveh583 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 14:25 fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

that "ancient wlad" narrative is nonsense. he was looking as good as ever and no one looked close to beating him prior to fury

Steveh583 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 12:43

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:49

Fury will only fight anybody now if he gets the fat end of the deal, and its a big draw

He is effectively semi retired, he's too wealthy now, the motivation has gone. Shame, he had rhe talent to be a real standout heavy champ, but chose not to be.

Its an oft repeated statement said about Fury - but did he really possess such talent? and when did he demonstrate it?

Was it against an ancient Wlad who was at the very end of his very long career; Wilder who hadn`t proved anything himself; a shot to bits Whyte .. or Wallin who lots favouring to get KO`d by a former cruiserweight who has been in semi-retirement the last 4-5 years.
Is this really enough to provide the evidence that Fury did have the talent to be a standout??

that "ancient wlad" narrative is nonsense. he was looking as good as ever and no one looked close to beating him prior to fury

He'd been walloped by Sanders and others. Became a jab and grab merchant with Stewart and he wasn't exactly fighting a murderers row of fighters was he? The same version of Sanders would have had him out of there again.

beating wlad and wilder was nice. he's clearly a very tough guy to beat, though in a historical context his record is thin and it will look bad if he never fights da champ of da world usyk. it will always leave doubts and questions and ducking accusations